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I love the emblem (O-60) ~

I... I d-don't know...

“Rides” and “Handles” are two different things and usually (though less so recently) opposite ends of the spectrum. I don’t like harsh rides. The roads here are beyond awful. I’ll take a comfortable ride over sporty handling every day and twice on Sundays. It’s why I buy the vehicles I buy. My EValanche will have air suspension just like my Avalanche does. I’d love an airmatic Benz but unless something changed recently they don’t make them in AWD.

I dont think size is an issue. Even going to Alpha. Camaro had respectable numbers as compared to Mustang all the way through. Forget about Camaro sales even beating Mustang for a couple of years. CHEVROLET CAMARO – US – BY YEAR Year sold 2009 61,648 2010 81,299 2011 88,249 2012 91,314 2013 80,294 2014 86,297 2015 77,502 2016 72,705 2017 67,940 2018 50,963 2019 48,266 2020 29,777 2021 21,893 FORD MUSTANG – US – BY YEAR Year sold 2005 160,975 2006 166,530 2007 134,626 2008 91,251 2009 66,623 2010 73,716 2011 70,438 2012 90,706 2013 77,186 2014 82,635 2015 122,349 2016 105,932 2017 81,866 2018 75,842 2019 72,489 2020 61,090 2021 52,384 I think Chevrolet missed the boat in that they never got away from that same look SINCE 2009. Even BEFORE that. The movie Transformers came out in 2007. 2 years before the car actually came out. But as people, we got to see the SAME style Camaro SINCE 2007. Before Alpha on the Zeta ONLY for the movie... And the Alpha Camaro Virtually unchanged. 1969 Camaro being the inspiration for both generations. The Mustang had the fastback Mustang of the mid '60s as inspiration, but both generations do NOT look alike. Like...at ALL. Ill use the Bullitt editions to illustrate my point As far as the Challenger goes. Well, it seems like what Ive said is contradictory... But I also explained why the Challenger went from trailing in sales to today Camaro levels to where Challenger leads in sales. Drew also pointed it out. AWD V6 Although it is slightly bigger, the Mustang is also kinda like a bunker inside, not as much as an Alpha Camaro, but Camaro DID see 70 000 units 2 or 3 years...so I dont think its a MAJOR factor. But the Challenger DID use ITS strengths to its advantage. Its NOT a track machine with its size and weight. What it IS though its a MUSCLE car through and through. The Mustang and Camaro have evolved from being muscle cars to being all around sports cars, which is also a good thing, BUT...the folk from Auburn Hills played UP the MUSCLE car image by UPPING the horsepower levels to UNGODLY amounts terrorizing Lamborghinis and Teslas along with its pony car peers and came up with MUSCLE car trim names like Scatpack 392, Superbee, Hellcat, Demon. The Camaro FAILED to impress with the IMAGE of WANTING a ZL1... The ZL1 ALSO spanked cars ABOVE its class. Its a silent Porsche killer on the track. But...MUSCLE car people dont care for that. And...Porsche people dont care about Camaros. Hennessey gets it when HE introduced The Exorcist... THAT should have been Chevrolet doing that if Chevrolet was following instead of leading with the horsepower wars. Mustang...dont forget, has Shelby Performance. The GT350 made a splash with their "flatplane" crank V8... Hinting at Corvette C8 Z06... Shelby tied in with Mustang also has MUSCLE CAR type SUPERSNAKES. Just to say, the Camaro is stale, boring and does NOT get anybody excited to own one. The Mustang and Challenger excite folk because their marketing has evolved since 2007. Transformer movies are looooong gone. Even the movie franchise, The Bumblebee movie from 2-3 years ago, gave up on the Camaro and went back to their roots with a VW Bug...

You sound very much like me. Not wanting a Tesla and waiting until the right one comes along. And then the EValanche debuted and it wasn’t even a question anymore. I was saying in another thread that I think that’s the case for a lot of people who like the idea of an EV but haven’t bought one yet because they don’t like what’s offered. The other one I’m keeping my eye on is the Fisker Ocean for Albert. He wants to go back to a CRV sized crossover and it looks like it fits the bill nicely. I just need a bit more detail about options before I reserve it.

So, on the topic of Challengers, my latest diecast arrived the other day.

True, he's certainly made Tesla what it is today, but I simply feel like he's trending higher on the crazy scale lately. His comments and actions seem to be more of a hinderance to Tesla. His latest earnings call and this move towards robotics give me doubt. Meanwhile, despite shocking the industry early on with the Cybertruck, Tesla will likely be beaten to market by nearly every EV truck introduced afterwards. Musk is a man of many broken promises and misguided priorities. Whoever can get the first sub-$30k EV that's not a penalty box to market will likely make the biggest mark.

South Carolina is the same way, BUT there isn't a traditional sales tax applied to vehicle sales, just a $500 max "infrastructure" fee. Short term you pay less, but it doesn't take very many years to surpass what sales tax would have cost. Yeah, it's definitely down to suspension set-up and tuning. Interestingly, ride quality is one difference I've noticed between the Model 3 and Model Y. The MY rides worse despite feeling slightly softer sprung. The M3 is more composed and comfortable; it even feels a bit more solid. The ride/handling is pretty similar to my old ATS. It's not overly surprising to me that demand for these is so high. I'm surprised it took this long. The Challenger is probably the most well-rounded of the three and has stuck with tried-and-true, well, everything. These days, it would be the one I'd buy despite the Camaro being a better fit for little ol' me. I almost bought one instead the Tesla, twice; both times a Challenger was in the running. Give me a nice wide-body Scat Pack in purple. They've been trending in the wrong direction ever since they switched to Alpha. It seems no one really wanted a smaller Camaro, especially after the refresh. Covid shortages likely put the final nail in the coffin. It's blasphemy, but I don't hate it. Upon my return, I sort of wondered what happened to him. I don't think I want, nor care, to know.

This however is acceptable

^^^ I see what is going on here... and it enrages me that such a thing could exist... Piss on the dude that created this atrocious thing I wish I could have never seen such a thing Phoquing bullshyte!!!

You know what they about one's head and rent free living right? Guess who is clearly living inside his head, AND on his dime lol? That is all I am going to say because my past feelings on the matter still apply here. Ditch the poison.

So I made up this chart that I think demonstrates how little difference there is between the 2.0T engines in this class. Peak horsepower on most of these is over 5,000 RPM and the Acura is at 6,500 RPM. I want you to think about how often in your daily life that you exceed 5,000 rpm while you look at these charts. What you'll end up noticing is that in the RPM of typical daily driving, 1500 - 4000, there is virtually no difference with the largest spread being 17 horsepower... nothing noticeable at all. Furthermore, these figures are only calculated at wide-open-throttle. At partial throttle, the numbers will be significantly lower. The Mercedes and Acura have very deep first gears, but they are only ever used when sport mode is engaged. It gives them significant pulling power in that mode, but that is a transmission advantage, not an engine one. The front-wheel drive Cadillac 9-speed looks like it might feel spritelier than the RWD 10-speed in a vehicle of similar weight as second gear is a bit deeper on the 9 than the 10. The 9-speed also has a very very slightly larger ratio spread. In overall spread, the Acura wins and in theory should be the most efficient at a steady highway speed if the transmission is able to hold 10th gear, but that's a noticeable "if" as none of these tend to hold their top gear in anything but a steady cruise. The BMW ZF 8-Speed has a pretty deep 1st and 2nd, but then starts dropping the ratios faster than any other transmission. Long story short, if you like the car, minor differences in peak horsepower that only really occur at high RPM under full throttle really shouldn't be the deciding factor. They are marketing materials and not in any way meaningful to you on your morning commute. The question marks are where I didn't have enough data to make a calculation. Cadillac 2.0T BMW 2.0T MB 2.0T Acura 2.0T 235HP @ 5000 RPM 248 HP @ 5200-6500 RPM 255HP @ 5800-6100 rpm 272 @ 6500 rpm 258 lb-ft @ 1500-4000 rpm 258 lb-ft @ 1450-4800 rpm 273 @ 1800-4000 rpm 280 @ 1600-4500 rpm Peak Torque 258 258 273 280 RPM Effective HP @ RPM Effective HP @ RPM Effective HP @ RPM Effective HP @ RPM 1500 74 74 ?? ?? 1600 79 79 ?? 85 1800 88 88 94 96 2000 98 98 104 107 2500 123 123 130 133 3000 147 147 156 160 3500 172 172 182 187 4000 196 196 208 213 4500 ?? 221 ?? 240 4800 Calculated torque below 236 ?? ?? 5000 247 Calculated torque below ?? ?? 5200 237 250 Calculated torque below ?? 5800 213 225 231 ?? 6000 206 217 223 Calculated torque below 6100 202 214 220 ?? 6500 190 200 ?? 220 GM 10-Speed ZF 8-Speed 8HP45 MB 9G-Tronic Honda 10-Speed First: 4.70 4.7 5.4 5.25 Second: 2.99 3.14 3.2 3.27 Third: 2.15 2.11 2.3 2.19 Fourth: 1.80 1.67 1.6 1.6 Fifth: 1.52 1.29 1.2 1.3 Sixth: 1.28 1.00 1.0 1 Seventh: 1.00 0.84 0.9 0.78 Eighth: 0.85 0.67 0.7 0.65 Ninth: 0.69 -- 0.6 0.58 Tenth: 0.64 -- -- 0.52 1st gear only used in Sport 1st gear only used in Sport GM 9-Speed First: 4.69 Second: 3.31 Third: 3.01 Fourth: 2.45 Fifth: 1.92 Sixth: 1.45 Seventh: 1.00 Eighth: 0.75 Ninth: 0.62

? NO ; the big block crate is alive & flourishing, along with the small block. SO MANY choices! 2022 big blocks available ~ ZZ632 : 1004 / 876 ZZ572 : 727 / 680 ZZ572 : 621 / 645 ZZ502 : 508 / 580 502HO : 461 / 558 ZZ454 : 469 / 519 454HO : 438 / 500 ZZ427 : 480 / 490 HT502 : 406 / 541 As for Webb motor works; their electric-motor-inside-a-V8-casting costs between $50 grand and $70 grand! A ZZ502 is $15K! You could build FOUR hot rod ZZ502s for the cost of ONE Webb kit.

Yeah! The numbers dont lie. Ironically enough though, 2015 is when the Hellcat came out. And Im gonna post its sales numbers as I have no idea what those are. As I type this, Im curious to see when did the Challenger numbers start going up. Im willing to bet, its around 2015. maybe in 2016. Maybe 'twas 2018 when Dodge made the V6 model available with AWD? Here goes: DODGE CHALLENGER – US – BY YEAR Year sold 2008 17,423 2009 25,852 2010 36,791 2011 39,534 2012 46,788 2013 51,462 2014 51,611 2015 66,365 2016 64,478 2017 64,537 2018 66,716 2019 60,997 2020 52,955 2021 54,315 Well, whatever the reasons are for the Camaro to slip in sales, and in reality, its not just one main reason, Chevrolet needs to seriously rethink there marketing strategy for its Camaro. Tough sale as GM's marketing is crap.

FCA, allowed for this to happen. Marchionne was not a total fool. He knew where to spend money on improvements and increase the value of the vehicles he knew that were and are going to be cash cows for FCA.

Seems for those that might be interested, you can still get the Cadillac V8 Blackwing motor for a paltry sum of $21,666.67 till they are gone. 550 HP / 627 lb-ft of torque You Can Still Buy a Twin-Turbo Cadillac Blackwing V8 Engine From GM… For Now (thedrive.com) Seems they made an extra run of motors to cover warranty issues with this motor for the CT6 V Blackwing and they have not been needed so Cadillac is selling them off till gone. Hand Built Blackwing motors from Kentucky. Will need a pallet jack as the motor weights 518 lbs dry. Interesting is that I found the web page and GM has discounted the Motor, so now it is $19,500.00 Plus $3,500 core charge. GM Genuine Parts 4.2L Gasoline Engine #12662913 | GM Genuine Parts 4.2L Gasoline Engine #12662913 | Parts (cadillac.com) Better hurry, at that discounted price, they should fly out the door.

Magneride allows for both and for both to be comfortable. I understand that "rides" and "handles" are two different things and usually ARE on opposite ends of the spectrum. That is why I asked. Handling great is usually allowed by stiffer suspension tuning. But on the road, real roads, that means that all the imperfections are felt. The one area where Montreal excels over ANY other North American city, including Detroit, is crappy, pot holed roadways. Our pot holes are literal craters. And we are just a few weeks away from pot hole season. It starts in mid March. Seeing that the Mach E is a sport CUV, and everybody is praising it for its great on-road prowess, I assume its because its tuned to handle rather than soak up the bumps, and thus stiff suspension, and seeing that only the GT Mach E has magnetic suspension, it be not quite the comfy ride. Im not quite intolerant of sporty suspension set-ups. Im getting there though slowly enough.

I'm slightly underwhelmed by the Escalade V. This entire generation doesn't really do anything for me, if I'm honest. I won't complain about the supercharger, though. I'm sure they'll sell every one. Strangely, I was just thinking about this the other day. I forget what prompted it, but it led me on a short little trip down wikipedia lane.

All valid points. Whatever the cause, we can see that Camaro sales were pretty flat and segment leading for nearly the entire run of the 5th gen model. Sales slumped a bit when the 6th gen Mustang came out and then they never recovered after that. Perhaps the Mustang was simply stuck in a rut (the same rut that the Camaro is in now) prior to that 2015 redesign.

I agree Tesla is being led by a failed leader. Good for his look at me Marketing stunts early on, but Tesla needs a Real CEO that can raise the bar on Quality and deliver on promises. Way too many distractions for Tesla, Robotics, Solar roofs, Solar storage systems, Rockets, Mars, underground tunnels, flame throwers, etc. etc. etc. Now we have the following stories of how bad Tesla quality is: Over 10 Percent of Tesla Model S EVs Fail Germany’s Strict Inspection After 3 Years (thedrive.com) Over 10 Percent of Tesla Model S EVs Fail Germany’s Strict Inspection After 3 Years - News07trends (universalpersonality.com) https://autobala.com/more-than-10-of-tesla-model-sevs-did-not-pass-rigorous-german-inspection-after-3-years/315059/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30126171 https://www.realmicentral.com/2022/01/29/tesla-is-not-acclimatized-10-of-three-year-old-model-s-fail-german-quality-inspection/ Seems that Tesla is at the bottom of the required inspections at 3yrs old. Not a good thing to be especially when your opening a manufacturing plant there. Then you have the Kia Niro EV rated at the most reliable EV on the road right now. Consumer Reports Reliability Study: Top 10 Has Japanese Brands, Mini, Buick - Forbes Wheels Then you have them giving the Hyundai Ioniq EV best buy as a $30,000 auto. Best Hybrid/EV Buying Guide - Consumer Reports Kia Niro And Tesla Model 3: The Best Rated Electric Cars For This 2022 » BuzzFeeds

I have to laugh at your opening line: "I don't think size is an issue." Societies have seemingly debated this for thousands of years. Just kidding. I never took the first Camaro that came back to us as a retro rehash. It has a scrunched up look I didn't like from the very beginning. Maybe it was a good thing that no one tried to release a Trans Am equivalent with another division. They tested the market for GM as a whole with just the Camaro. I like this last Mustang you've put up. They look different enough and there's more going on in the grille, the side sculpting, and all that. I'm not so sure I like the Mustang's dashboard, from what I've seen on line and at the auto shows. It's got a spartan and squarish austerity I don't like. Again, the Challenger decided to sculpt its dashboard in an interesting way and in a way that shows it's related to the Charger. Thumbs up to that.

It’s the same V6, but it’s not as powerful as the Camaro V6. The visibility isn’t the best compared to sedans, but it’s better than the other 2.

Found this in my basement collection today. Original magazine still intact

It feels strange to say this, but compared to the majority of the latest EV reveals, Teslas seem...almost normal. The Model 3, while seemingly unorthodox when it was revealed, is now the Camry/Corolla of the EV spectrum today—in more ways than one. Now, if only something could be done about Elon... Of all the EVs from mainstream manufacturers, the Hyundai Ioniq grabs my attention. They really nailed it with that one.

There’s something deceptive / off / Marketing Department about all of these numbers. I’m going to do a bit more digging tomorrow.

I'm pretty nimble for a 43 year old and even I have difficulty getting in and out of it... as would just about anyone over 5'2". That said, once you're in, it is a very comfortable fit. I really love driving it because it is so light and nimble (relative to the other two) and even the V6 is more than plenty for most anyone. But the Challenger is easier to live with day to day than both of them. It's big, as easy to get in and out of as my '81 Toronado, and rides comfortably. The V6 isn't really enough for its mass, but Dodge will happily sell you any of a selection of V8s. The Challenger is also the only one of the three to offer AWD.

Who says Corvettes are not muscle cars? I believe all these pics are 'vintage'. The one thing that I loved about the '70s.

I came, ahem, across this ad while googling 'motor wheel spyder rim' I would like to blow Miss Muffet's doors off too. And then, she could, ahem, blow my doors off after I blow hers... But then I found out she has a....brother. I am not one to mess around with somebody else's gal. ?

Watched what I could find on Hummer EV assembly. GM has only released a bit of video, which numerous different videos sample from, it seems. From what I saw, I feel the Hummer best fits in the 'unibody' category, as the raw shell moving down the line getting spot welded up already shows chassis structure attached. Later on, the battery pack is seen being lifted up from below into the chassis's bottom. While I accept that there is a 'structural contribution' via the battery pack, I wouldn't be surprised if it's largely to do with the large bottom plate that bolts to the body structure & seals the battery compartment, making a huge, solid, rigid 'squaring' of the body. I don't think it would be advisable to have liquid-cooled batteries themselves subjected to repeated torsional stresses, esp in an intended off-roader like the Hummer.

The Atlas I-6 was a modern (for the time) engine that was bolted to non-modern stuff. It was incredibly smooth and loved to rev, it really got its power higher up in the RPM band, which isn't ideal for a heavy SUV, but compared to what we have today with DOHC V6es it was fine. But then GM stuck a 4-speed automatic behind it so it always felt like it was screaming or lugging. In typical GM fashion, they canceled it right when it had the potential to flourish... the new 6-speed autos were coming out, direct Injection was being introduced to the mainstream, and turbo technology was entering a renaissance phase. An Atlas I-6 with DI and a Turbo would have beaten Ford to the punch with Ecoboost and probably been a better performer to boot. Heck, even a turbo I-5 would have been great for the re-return of the Colorado/Canyon or as 1-2 matchup against the Ford 2.7EB and 3.5EB. Both the I5 and I6 would probably have been de-bored a bit in turbo applications but it still would have been a great matchup.

Recycling (same car) ~ 2-dr fastback '49 Caddy, chopped & hard-topped ~

R.I.P. To the Big Block V8 on the on the Crate Motor Site. Officially Dead is the LS7 base block and the LS& 427/570. Course there is the all New 10.4 L 1,000HP plus big block still or you can go small block look, but an electric motor replacement. Here they build drop in electric motor solutions to look like old V8 motors. Webb Motorworks (@webbmotorworks) • Instagram photos and videos

Unfortunately, neither of the suspensions are tolerable to me.