oldshurst442

5 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Holy crap you are one friggin drama queen, olds. 

Wait, I mean Greek drama queen.

I honestly don't with agree with one phoquing word of the many you stated.  Not even the part about what you think I said in this thread.

And no, I won't bother debating.  Why bother.

Of course you dont agree and of course you wont bother with any rebuttal...

How could you?

1. You dont agree with one phoquing word I said is because you work for FoMoCo and ANYTHING said about FoMoCo that is less than complimentary you become defensive.

2. YOU know there is no debate with what I said because what I said is REALITY....YOU aint naive..

PS: I said you are NOT naive....and you dont agree with what I said....does that mean you think you are naive?

THE NSX 1st generation represents what Lincoln and FoMoCo lost to the Japanese car maker....

THE NSX 2nd generation represents (along with that new Continental)  what Lincoln, FoMoCo, Acura and Honda Motor Division had  lost due to blurry eye sight...and are trying to get back on track...

Agree to that or not....I dont care what you believe, but 'twas you that went wacky on Suave and is laughing at Acura and Buick....remember....YOU asked what Acura or Buick has in their portfolio that is high in regard to the Continental....

I showed you the Acura NSX...

You want a tissue my darling to wipe those tears from your face?

24 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Buick and Acura.

LMAO

 

List me one product from either brand that even comes close to Conti.

You really are nuts! (Not in a good way)

Why?

1. Suave LOVES the Continental....you pissed on him for no phoquing reason by crying over what you thought was a negative post! If you cease to be so obsessively defensive you would have realized that he was actually praising and LOVING it!

2. Relax with the Continental bro...It aint even on sale yet at the Lincoln Store!

But since you asked:

The NSX, old and new, had and has a HIGHER price tag than anything Lincoln EVER offered for a long time. The last time Lincoln had a car priced that high, John F. Kennedy was still alive...

The NSX also  represents technology that Lincoln, hell, FoMoCo, not even remotely offering its clientele. The Ford GT might have a higher price tag, it doesnt nearly have half as much tech in it in...

About Buick...

Buick's portfolio will increase in the next 5 years 2 fold...if the new Lacrosse is any indication where the brand is going along with the Avenir trim packages on the higher end stuff....Lincoln's Continental will have its hands full fighting off Buick...

Remember, Buick's portfolio just 6-7 years ago was thinner and weaker than Lincoln's...

All Lincoln has is that Continental...and a couple of SUVs...remember, other than that Continental, Lincoln really has not that much...

And let us be honest, the hood area of the Continental has Ford Fusion/Mondeo styling...above the jewel LED headlights is an aero area that the Fusion also adorns....and those jewel LEDs are heavily borrowed from Acura...

Buick also has a couple of strong SUVs. And a new Regal coming up shortly.

Wings...1 car does not make a brand....

Ask Acura and Buick...you know, the brands you laugh at....

Wings...Lincoln's playmates are Buick and Acura...you could stop pretending....you aint naive...

I tried hard to circumvent the rules on this one. I found it tough, but I found a way to weasel in a few questionable entries...(twas with Mopar and the muscle cars that I was stomped with...stupid Mitsubishi denied me of a classic Challenger and Shelby with a classic Charger)

We start with the first one:

2009 Mercedes Benz E63 AMG.

I LOVE THIS CAR. I HAD TO HAVE IT. Problem is, 2 generations have passed....but...we are still in 2016 and the new gen just got on the market while the previous gen technically is still available making the 2009 questionably legit...tough noogies Frisky...

The second weasel car:

Chevrolet SS' cousin, the Pontiac G8 GXP Firehawk is the choice...we even jump to a different brand with this one, a dead brand at that, but technically, the Chevy SS predecessor is the Pontiac G8...Australia says so...

Suck it Frisky!!!

I got inspiration from the MOPAR  scenario where I was trying to choose predecessors from a different era when choosing this next one.

Acura NSX. Larger displacement or original motor. I dont care. But it has to be the one with the pop-up headlights.

I wanted Aston Martin, but its near impossible to figure out which car replaced what since they are all practically from the same platform and since I already done my con jobs, I figured Id give it rest, so another Mercedes Benz car was chosen.

2010 CLS 63 AMG

I soooo wanted a MOPAR...But a VIPER is not my style. I love it....but still...

So what else could I choose that is pure MOPAR muscle?

I GOT IT!!!!

That lovely V10 was originally a truck engine...why not choose the truck with THAT engine under the hood. But the VIPERIZED version will have to do. Yeah yeah...Trucks are not my style either. Look at the pic. Isnt that a purty picture?

Now you know why I chose the MOPAR truck...

How about a lifted Wrangler whatever lettering series it is?

Here, a 2 door. Is that sporty enough for ya?

Because it is for me!

I just had a flashback of songs from that era...weird how that works...

1993.

I was 20 years old and on top of my world.

Going to college, doing great there. Getting good grades. Playing all kinds of sports, working out and looking and feeling great.

I was a popular kid. Had many friends that wanted to party with me and my gang.

I was very popular with the girls at this point in time.

1 regret (about this song):

I never really liked this song back in the day, oh so I thought. I heard it today for the first time since probably it went off the air sometime in 1993 or 1994 when it ceased to be popular anymore...I remembered all the words to it. Yeah, Ive made out with more than a handful of girls and this song was playing in the backround...

My regret: I wish I had taken the time to enjoy the song a bit more. Its a good song...

I dont know why I did not like it. I wish I enjoyed it is what Im saying as the girls that I made out with while this song was playing are nothing but a blur to me right now. Which is fine by me, its just that I feel like I missed out on a good song back in the day is alls Im saying.

The irony:

Back in the day, the girls that I had fallen in love with were in my heart while this song was a blur in the backround, but today...the song is vivid in my heart while the girls are nothing but a forgotten dream.

24 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Ford resale is really already messed up.  I am not able to afford a Corvette or a CTS V, I am looking at cheaper performance cars.  The Focus ST and Fiesta ST are both neat cars but have hideous depreciation, even compared to something like the VW GTI. The GTI of course being tainted by the falling reputation of VW.

I think one also needs to look at how utterly bland most of the Ford lineup was in the 2006-2008 era compared to GM.  There was a very legitimate reason they were having a problem turning a profit by putting money to metal.

And while it is fun to talk about various cars in the dream car garage threads in the Lounge, I think I have decided that I will not be buying a Ford motor company product for my next car, or maybe ever. This thread has reminded me in a really negative wort of way of the arrogance of Ford in acting superior in not taking the bail out money. A few years ago I changed my on screen name from 66 Stang to a Horse with No Name because I did not want to associate myself with Ford because of their arrogant attitude.

Feeling really glad at the moment that I didn't pull the trigger on a new Focus ST.  Almost bought one a couple of years ago when I bought my TDI, and almost ordered one when it looked like the buy back was a sure thing.

The funny thing about that...I made a Ford purchase in 2013 buying a Fusion DESPITE me being pissed at that lying arrogance with those dumb commercials.

And the bailout money had no influence on me either...

I was FOR the bailouts as I was for FoMoCo surviving their route taken...

I take it many Americans were pissed at the government interventions but it baffles me how these same Americans are pissed at GM and Chryco for the bailout money yet they dont cry foul when the government subsidizes foreign car makers to build their factories in the USA...

Or when NASA lets Toyota use the Space Shuttle as a HUGE billboard commercial...

Or worse...I dont see any American, including @Wings4Life bitch at these billionaire pro-sports team owners threaten to leave town unless the city in question builds them a new arena of some sorts....

OK back to Ford...

Ill keep this short and sweet.

I just AMAZED how Ford and GM went from interior zeros from the 1980s-2010s to interior heros from 2010-2016. A short time span where GM and Ford are now industry leaders, or close to it, in interior design, quality and execution.

Much still to improve...but very impressive non-the-less...for both companies.

21 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

You are suggesting pure luck is what Ford had, based on timing, and that at no time did strategy and smart business sense come into play.

So wrong you are. I recall the meetings vividly. I recall the discussions about how they are preparing to secure their new revitalization plan AND a potentially souring economy, by doubling down on the low interest rates to secure that whole plan, JUST IN CASE.

They had insight.

Others did not.

Spin it into any analogy you like, but that is what I LIVED THROUGH.

Ummmmm...NO!!!

That is what is called sugar coating the desperation...

That what you have described is what Disney movies are all about...

The nice come back from behind victory....

The bad guy wears a black hat and the good guy wears a white hat and through all kinds of turmoil saves the damsel in distress and saves the day and lives to fight another day.

The nice love story...where the hero lives happily ever after.

However, the negatives are all buried in the sand...

In makes for a nicer story....why bother we all that pesky truth...which was desperation for Ford...

Ford had hindsight to mortgage the Blue Oval and the Mustang trademark?

That they had to hire appraisers to see how much those identities were worth....THAT was the hindsight? For a rainy day? And just in case it down poured on Ford's parade, and Ford wouldn't be able to make a payment on that type of mortgage, Ford would cease to own its own Blue Oval logo?

Dude...THAT was a big effin risk to take...

And...George W. Bush was already softening the public for a bailout at the time...because those talks were happening waaaay before the shyte hit the fan...

Everyone knew the woes of the Detroit 3....very early on...

That is why the Premier Automotive Group began to be dismantled under Mullaly.  Aston Martin was sold, to a consortium of investors, headed by David Richards in 2007.^[4] In September 2006, the defunct Rover brand was secured from BMW by Ford to protect the Land Rover brand.^[5] In March 2008, Ford sold Jaguar and Land Rover to Tata Motors of India. In 2010, Ford sold Volvo Cars, the last PAG brand, to the parent of Chinese carmaker Geely for $1.8 billion.

My My...Wings...How we forget the desperation times...

A mere 5-7 years before...PAG was formed to a tune of 17 billion or something like that...

Burn through cash the D3 were doing...and Ford was desperate and that is why the Mustang trademark and Blue Oval logo ceased to be owned by Ford for a little while....NOT because of hindsight as you put it...but by desperation...

28 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Olds,

I like you too much to continue this argument.  

If you say there is no difference in how the companies handled their misfortunes and that there was no difference in what employees went through, then fine.  

Going to bed now.

ΚΑΛΗΝΥΧΤΑ, Wings.

Translation for you non Greeks: Good Night, Wings.

2 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Here is the history.

Ford took wiser steps and did not phoque over their employees and investors.

 

You are not fooling anyone olds. I have had many debates with loud, dramatic, emotional and intelligent Greeks in the past.  They all try to skew and skirt a debate to fit their dramatics.  

You are the loud and dramatic story telling Greek...mixed in with some good ole American fast talkiing...

Im more of the wise old philosopher type, mixed in with some good old fashioned Canadian dont take no BS from nobody saying how it is attitude like Don Cherry...

Ford's "wiser" steps were of DESPERATION....

The rest is just lies and innuendo only politicians are known for...Ancient Greek politcians or modern day American or Canadian or Greek....

Hey, maybe you should run for President....your lies seem to be less stingy than the other two Presidential hopefuls... Id vote for you....

But then again, Id vote for you only because you are Greek and not for your merits.

10 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Not their fault you say?

Yeah, I guess if I mismanage my checking account, don't save for the future, or seek other monies to pay for my expensive new car loan, it would not be my fault when a tow truck shows up in the middle of the night, and it's gone.  I could just blame the economy.

See how that holds up in court.

Again, the simple truth during hard times, is that one corporation took wiser steps,  

All the rest is noise and jelly.

What the phoque are you talking about?

FoMoCo mismanaged their cash flow, their business plans, their market, their production, their quality JUST as BADLY as the other 2 Michigan headquartered rivals...

THAT is why their cash flow ended 1 year BEFORE the other 2 rivals...

Wings....you like to re-write history....I guess its in your Greek blood to do so...but Homer you are not...nor Plato or Socrates....

You fool nobody.

Continue on with your revisionist history...

OK...after a long deliberation on this matter its either a 455 SD from Pontiac or Rocket 455 V8 from Oldsmobile in 1973...

I think the Olds/Hurst wins out after me looking at the pics I just posted.

1989 @ 16 years of age

As much as I wanna choose something different, I just seem to gravitate back to my heart and soul...

I had a real hard time ditching the 1973 Trans Am, but at least it was in favor for an Oldsmobile muscle car. That is where my heart is at anyways, but more for the A-Body and not for the colonnade body style, I mean I like the colonnade body style, its just that  I LUST over the late 60s A-Body...

OK..1989...

Pontiac Turbo Trans Am...over a BMW M635 csi or BMW 850...

1994 @ 21 years old OR 1998 @ 25 years old...

Oh boy....this is tough...1998 is the year I choose and its between 2 absolutely gorgeous cars...both cars that are outside my identity but you would have to be a fool not to enjoy in a dream garage.

BMW Z8

or Ferrari F355 F1

You know what the Greeks and Italians say: una faccia, una razza. Translastion: 1 face, 1 race

The gorgeous Italian wins!

Quite possibly the last absolutely good looking Ferrari made.

2016/2017 pick

Aston Martin DB11

And yes, in that grey colour. The grey grew on me...and besides....Im 43 years old...Im beginning to be an old geezer myself....(I said that the colour grey on cars is old fogey colour)

last pick: 1970 Oldsmobile 442

Not as different than to what I usually choose...but hey...these are some of the cars that get me giddy!

4 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Tell that to those who lost.

And I am pissing on nothing. 

Read the edited post above...

And yes you are pissin' on GM...

No higher road takin by Ford...

Only survival instincts...that became lucky for them...NOT TO USE bailout money, but bailout money was there for them to use as they did not decline it!

THERE IS NO HIGHER ROAD!

Like I said...YOUR reasons are just noise pollution meant to piss on GM...

Point finale!

PS...

I also lived through it....2009 affected the whole bloody planet. Not just Detroit and the automobile bankruptcies...

WE ALL DID!

Shyte, you are of Greek decent, like me, Greece is still living it!

Fusion Platinum or Fusion Sport for me.

For a Lincoln sedan...Id really spend the money on a much more refined Lincoln ride, the Continental.

And Id have the real Continental fascia rather than the make-shift one on the MKZ...

The Fusion fascia is pretty and high end looking enough for my tastes...there is no need to spend the extra cash on the MKZ. The interior material differences...irrelevant for me.

Like I said, the Continental is where Id look for the high end interior...

Kinda like the 2015 Chevy Impala versus the 2015 Buick Lacrosse...Id rather the Impala then over the Lacrosse.

21 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Golly gee, so you are suggesting that big corporations were more concerned about themselves?

 

Shocking.

Thanks for sharing.

So, this is an admission that FoMoCo did the same things ethically as GM or Chryco in this 2008/2009 bankruptcy thing...

So what is your argument stance then with the whole family fortunes lost thing?

And that wasnt what I was saying either:

This bailout situation...

FoMoCo and GM and Chryco...

ALL 3 were going bankrupt...

All 3 were in danger of becoming extinct.

All 3 were desperate for cash flow.

All 3 were in a bad place and all 3 needed help.

All 3 took the SAME ROUTE!

All 3 ALWAYS took the SAME ROUTE.

All 3 ALWAYS HAD THE BANKS LEND THEM TONS OF CASH.

ITS JUST THAT in 2007/2008, Ford got billions when they re-mortgage their name...

GM and Chryco waited it out as they had some cash left over from other bank loans from years before. FoMoCo was cash strapped 1 whole year before the other two but when GM and Chryco became cash strapped 1 short year later, the banks themselves were going down...

So...in comes G.W. Bush with a proposal to which Obama finalized to save the American car industry from failing. And yeah, FoMoCo did not say no to the bailout money, they just DID NOT NEED TO USE IT!!! They could have though. They had access to it....

And if they have used it, they too would have caused the same amount of family fortunes lost as GM or Chryco.

DO NOT EVER try to sugar coat that!

THAT is what I was sayin'

3 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

No doubt both companies were doing the best they can in dire situations.  I have no interest in arguing who leveraged the most or who borrowed the most or whatever. My ONLY intended debate was with dfelt regarding families that lost out, which he doubted.  I strongly disagree there.  I saw the fallout, including family and friends and neighbors.  And sorry, when someone brags about how GM used the filing to their advantage, and how Ford still owes.....I go ape $h!EE!!!  And it's not about Ford, it's about those who lost out.

 

My apologies 

In case you missed my clues...

GM and Chryco's shrugging off the debts and monies owed that may  have destroyed many family fortunes were NOT DONE ON PURPOSE TO TO FRAUD THOSE families. It may very well have been a necessary evil. To prevent any WORSE damages...

FoMoCo's situation well, they were in the same sinking boat and FoMoCo' decision to re-mortgage their assets and possibly taking bailout money like GM and Chryco had NO THOUGHTS about little guy family fortunes lost.

All Detroit 3 decision making in 2007-2009 was NOT about saving the little guy's family fortunes...

Those decisions that the Detroit 3 took were about saving the Big 3. So no family fortunes would be lost, or at least be minimized. FoMoCo's 2nd/3rd mortgage was a lucky one for FoMoCo. The banks cut that faucet to prevent any little guy family fortune disasters any further as there was a bank meltdown so GM and Chryco were shyte outta luck to go down that road...remember...FoMoCo did that a whole year before...

The bailout money was a solution to PREVENT WORSE little guy family fortunes lost then there was...

That is why I redirected the conversation to Trump and H.R. Clinton as BOTH have used the law to SCREW ON PURPOSE the little guy....

THAT IS WHY I CALLED YOU UP ON IT! Because there are 2 types of arguments I cant stand:

1. semantic driven BS

2. cherry picking

Because both are used to deflect to cover up biases and both are DISINGENUOUS!

NO APOLOGIES ON MY END!

I COME ARMED WITH THE TRUTH AND IF NOBODY LIKES THAT....TOUGH NOOGIES!

3 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

My post...............was a simple yet sharp REPLY to another post that was uncalled for.

You might have conveniently missed that.

And you can itemize all of Ford's faults here to your heart's content (while of course ignoring GM's) but at the end of the day, if GM had the chance of taking Ford's path instead, I am positive that the country would have preferred it instead.  Especially those who lost their family fortunes.

Ummmmm....  NO!

When you want to reply to someone else's post Wings...THERE IS NO NEED TO BE DISINGENUOUS IN YOUR REPLIES!!!

I HAVENT ITEMIZED NO FAULTS BY ANY AMERICAN CAR MANUFACTURER...

YOU HAVE THOUGH....

ITS A NEW ANGLE YOU PLAY ON TO BURY GM: LOST FAMILY FORTUNES

There is NO moral high ground. All 3 Detroit headquartered car makers all got into severe debt loads and all 3 had to find a solution for NOT going belly up...FoMoCo mortgaged the actual Blue Oval logo and Mustang trade mark to avoid going belly up....1 year before GM and Chryco got bail out money....and Ford was up there trying to get bailout money too just in case the Blue Oval and Mustang trade mark money would dry up...and if you remember, the banks remortgaged money was as much as the bail out money and FoMoCo was still not sure if that would be enough...

There was NO THOUGHT put into anybody's family fortunes when FoMoCo applied for said mortgage and the possible bail out money...

THAT is reality of things. Anything else said about GM or Chryco or Ford is just noise pollution to try to get a leg up and piss on the other...

THAT would include YOUR analysis Wings!!!

My analysis is the closest to reality!

Besides...that is old news now....

Ya'll should move away from the  Detroit 3 bailout scene and concentrate on your Presidential candidate that REALLY used those very same tactics to get ahead...with REAL INTENTIONS OF SCREWING OVER THE LITTLE GUY....

GM, Ford and Chrysler. That was a heap of a mess that had collected over 4-5 decades with a myriad of reasons not just bad management and shoddy vehicle construction...many diverse reasons...

But BOTH of your Presidential candidates FULLY KNOWINGLY have screwed over the little guy's family fortunes....

Put your energy in bitchin' about that! Because the USA is gonna go down the loo with either candidate...

This is gonna be a boring one for me...and for you folk to see what Im gonna choose.

Why?

Ive posted these cars before...

Born in 1973...

My choice...1973 Pontiac Trans Am 455 SD.

I was 16 in 1989.

My choice...1989 Pontiac Trans Am Turbo 20th Anniversary.

So...in order to find something new to add to this thread, allow me some time to truly think it over and choose other cars Id like to own instead of me going to my usual repertoire.

Im with Mr. Nameless Horse on the CTS.

I like but Im not sure Id buy one. Annnnnd, about the Vette. Neither the Ford GT or the Vette are my style of cars. Both are great for what they do, but Im not a buyer in this market.

My battle resides with the sedans.

Because Id rather the CTS over the Focus, I choose the CTS/Vette combo.

2 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Ford borrowed the old fashioned way, and they are still paying back.

  That is hardly the same as begging for government funds to keep the lights on.

 

 

Hmmmm. Yeah.

2nd and 3rd mortgages were, are and continue to be for the very near and far future the new American norm. So no shame on FoMoCo on that account....yeah because, FoMoCo was better than the other two in managing their debt loads....yup...that is what you want us to believe...

And ummm, Mr. Mullaly was on that very same bandwagon train begging with GM and Chryco, helping them out to get funds from the government, and just in case FoMoCo needed EXTRA cash....

Oh.....FoMoCo mortgaged everything AND the kitchen sink including the coffee makers and door handles ONE YEAR BEFORE GM and Chrysler got government help because FoMoCo was in WORSE condition that the other two...

Try again my fellow Greek brother.

Oh...your post does not deserve to be at +1. At best it should be just neutral.

Your post is at the very least, very disingenuous...

Ive done this list in the spirit of base trim models. OK, some cars I chose are very well equipped, but I chose my cars by them being models of mainstream brands. With the exception of one car being of a premium luxury brand. All are 2017 models.

1.   2.3 liter 4 cylinder Ecoboost Mustang Convertible. Unless of course the 3.7 liter V6 is the one I must choose...

2. Buick Lacrosse FWD base.

3. Nissan Maxima S

I adore this car. I might as well choose it in this dream car garage thread as I might not get a chance to pick it another time.

4. This is such a pretty car. I said Id choose a Miata, but the Fiat version is prettier.

Fiat 124 Classica

5. There is a loop hole here. This generation WRX is its own stand alone name plate. No Impreza to hold me back. And I get to stay mainstream enthusiast sporty without going too expensive with the name plates.

I like this one.  Give me time to think about it.

One question: Do convertibles count as trims ABOVE base models? Obviously Im not taking about roadsters like a Miata....Although I might consider a base level Miata instead negating this question....

If I had the disposable income necessary for a 100 000 dollar car, this area of the enthusiast car spectrum would not be of interest to me.  Too small and too low for my driving tastes. Sure these kinds of  cars are sexy and scream out loud what boils down to: the essence of car enthusiasm full of lust and speed...but it aint what I prefer.

With that being said, I might as well just keep this choice.  This car might just be the best of its ilk...might as well just enjoy it!

But...a Vette or a Viper would also do...Z07 C7-R Edition and T/A respectively.

5 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I will take Montreal any day over anything in Texas. Montreal is perhaps the most awesome city in north America...Texas for the most part I do not even wish to fly over at 33,000 feet asleep in a plane seat.

Yeah. Montreal is a great city. We got very very  VERY screwed up problems that are unique to Canada and North America, but those very same problems make up the fabric that makes Montreal so great! I cant see myself living anywhere else in the world other than Montreal. I bitch about these problems often enough, but I also feel like these problems makes us a stronger society because we as citizens of Montreal and Quebec, we constantly talk about them and how we could resolve them trying to live together in PEACE. 

I bitch about the winter, but I like the winter non-the-less. Breaks up the monotony of summer. And when we are phoquing fed up of the constant -13 to -40 degree Fahrenheit  weather with  more or less um...snowfalls...the birds come back and love is in the air again. L'amour toujours l'amour.

Montreal has everything one needs in a city.

A phoquing great night life.

Quality higher education institutions more plentiful than Boston.

2 official languages. If one gets bored talking in English, one could talk in French...

An old historic, quaint little town (Old Montreal) where there is a lot to do in all 4 seasons. One could think he is in Paris. A very bustling down town core where North America resides....albeit with a twist, Montreal style....

Great restaurants, amongst the best in the WORLD...

Montreal is famous for its gastronomy.

A true multi-cultural city second only to NYC.

Sure we have our racism, but more often than not, we all get along...

Boston and NYC are the other North American cities that I hold high in regard. Listen, I dont want to insult the other great cities of North America, its just that Im tooting Montreal's horn right now!

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Back in Seattle and on the internet. Love the cool weather and drizzle.

Same weather in Montreal today.

Not quite the temperature where water freezes the weather dudes were saying, but yeah...cool and wet.

Usually I prefer Hot, Wet and Wild though...