oldshurst442

Unless you're invading another country, there is no superiority about the kind of off-roading this Mercedes can do. Even then the Unimog is a MUCH better vehicle.

 

And there is hardly any place on Earth where the correctly spec'd version of those 3 can't go. The only thing maybe a water fording... which still is a niche use, and most militaries now have the deployable bridges.

Yeah but Suave...if the Germans know one thing....it IS about invading other countries!

Back on point, what sort of corporate board would approve a model for production to compete with a vehicle that sold 106 units last month in the entire U.S.??

Sorry Balthy, yes back on point...

Maybe the board got sidetracked with visions of invading Poland again.

thank-you

 

But initially, cars never replaced horses- they were discretionary toys or farm vehicles for the most part.

They weren't depended on, people very seldom did long distances, therefore range anxiety was never a wide-spread concern.

 

Tangential factoids : Ford Model T had a range of 200-250 miles. And a Packard made the 1st cross-country trip, in 1903.

 

EVs - in general- have yet to shake the range anxiety reputation (Tesla, perhaps, excluded).

Balthazar, do you not think EVs will catch on much faster due to state, county and city GOVs going to EV fleets which will introduce more people to driving them and helping to change peoples perception? Tesla I think more than the Prius has changed peoples attitude about EV auto's and I think the BOLT will only increase the notion that I can go electric and ditch the dirty pump for many people. Ease of recharging at home is very appealing to people rather than having to plan to run out and fill up auto's for the week.

 

I kinda view the situation you described like going to the movies in the '20s-70s to the 80s with VCR rentals to the 90s with DVD rentals to Netflix at home...

It was once fun to go to the movies with friends and family....but....waiting in line excessively took a toll on our patience...

So by the time movies were being transferred to Beta and VHS and we could rent them, we stopped waiting in line excessively...

We still wait in line like this...but only for the Star Wars franchise  it seems and for young Leo DiCaprio movies where he is drowning in the North Atlantic from hypothermia...

And,  by the time DVDs came of age....we were even fed up of rewinding the damned tape before returning the movie back to Blockbuster Video...(yeah remember them???!!!)

So when Netflix came to be...we just about had it from renting movies for 24 hours, then for renting them for 48 hours and then for 1 week, only to bring the movies back???!!!

What the hell is that???!!!!

I have to go out of my way to rent the stupid movie, then return it????!!!!!

Go phoque yourself Blockbuster!!!   I dont have to return no movies no more!!!

(this was when Netflix mailed the bloody movie to your home...and alls you had to do is just mail it back, but that too became tiresome..now Netflix lets us download....but apparantly that is starting to bother us as well)

OK...the connection:

I dont know about anybody else, but Im fed up of stopping every so often at the gas shop and most of the time the route to the gas shop is outta my way just to have my hands stink of gas....

I realize that EV range is nowhere near the range of gasoline powered cars..but doncha think when battery range comes close to gasoline range....doncha think that people are gonna view recharging at the comfort of one's home versus going out of one's way to gas up or recharge at a gas/recharge station as they do Netflix to DVDs to Beta/VHS to movie theatre going?

We as humans, when we find a way that eliminates the hassles, we tend to adopt the less hassle way of things immediately is alls Im sayin'!!!

 

Norway has announced a plan to ban sale of cars with an internal combustion engine by 2025.  They won't be the first.  China should do that, their air quality is a joke.  

 

Government mandates will lead to more electrification too.  

 

Electricity is the most readily available power source.  And the batteries will eventually get there, they just aren't there yet.   The horsepower is already there.

 

My question is if Electric cars are so great why would they need to ban the Gas ones?

 

My feeling is continue development and investment and make a  better EV then let the market make the change. 

 

1 word:

POLLUTION

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Norway

From the WIKI link:

"The electricity sector in Norway relies predominantly on hydroelectricity. A significant share of the total electrical production is consumed by national industry."

 

 

 

I dont like Big Brother dictating to me either what is good and bad for me...

However, I dont like big business greasing up the politicians I vote for telling them to tell me what is good or no good for me either.

As you could see...this is a stale mate....

However...since Norway produces its own electricity...and Hydro-electric power is as clean as it gets....and all these EVs will be roaming around in Norway relatively pollution free, with the exception of battery replacement and disposal...and the re-charging costs of the drivers will go DIRECTLY into Norway's coffers instead of Big Oil and Middle Eastern, Russian(Ukraine), Canadian, or even American oil drilling interests...Id say its a win-win for Norway this way....

PS: Norway has Middle Eastern internal problems..

Banning gasoline cars... Saudi terrorist oil gets eliminated killing two birds with one stone...money to Norway while really stifling Saudi terrorist oil money...

Frogger, you are unto something...

So far...EVs are sedans...

Sedans took a HUGE tumble in sales this past month...and CUVs took a huge spike in sales...

Like Frogger said...once the CUV EVs for average joes start rolling off the assembly line...so will the popularity of the EV will rise...because, after all, a CUV IS fast becoming the vehicle of choice for the masses...the Bolt as a small hatch may not be the one...but a Chevy Equinox style EV ala Tesla Model X, but cheaper in price...will definitely make a splash...

A Model 3 SEDAN took 400 000 pre-orders...imagine what an affordable Chevy EV CUV could do...or a Buick Encore EV...remember, the Verano SEDAN was canceled because the Encore CUV is very very in demand!!! 

Balthy...

That would be on par with Ford's Mustang in 1964...

THAT little figure grew into a  hot contested niche for the next 50 years.

At its height, 7 or 8 models...

EVs....in 2016...well....in about 5 years from now...most every single auto maker will have at least 1 100% EV automobile in their stable....

Most will have an average joe model along with an expensive one.

And....there are more car brands today than there was in 1967-1968-1969...at the height of the pony car wars....

Back then, not every car brand wanted to join that war....mid size muscle was enough...

Today....ALL brands want to be in the EV scuffle.

Genesis CEO has this to say:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/449914/genesis-planning-an-electric-vehicle/

The Genesis chief believes that “full electric cars will be the future in the auto industry”. It’s not known when Genesis’ electric vehicle will debut, however, or if it will be a standalone model

 

Porsche and Audi and M-B think this too...

GM also thinks this...The Bolt was launched to compete with the Model 3 for a reason...

Nissan too with the Leaf....in fact, the Bolt is to compete against the Leaf AND the Model 3 even  though that all three enjoy a different part of the segment...

Sounds familiar?

A lot like the pony car wars of the mid-60s....

A Barracuda, a Challenger and a Mercury Cougar were a slight step bigger.

A Trans Am and a Javelin were quirky on purpose to be different.

And the classic formula...

With the Japanese trying to spin their own unique twist on it with a Fairlady Z and Celica...

I see that with EVs today...

If EVs were only a smidgen of the automobile pie....I dont see how could many automakers be wasting billions on a niche that will NOT be sellable....yet Porsche, Rolls, M-B, BMW, Audi, GM, Hyundai, Acura and so forth are wasting billions trying to chase a 1% point in market share.

 

My opinion of the general event (the swing towards EVs & hybrids) is immaterial to the event itself.

I'm not against it, I like more choice. EV should work well for a large swath of consumers. Of course, they're not going to be appealing or practical for all, and talk of banning IC vehicles state-wide is ridiculous, and that I reserve the right to speak against.

 

But I'm not going to jump on the hyperbole train WRT EVs and the Great Changing of the Automotive World, no matter how many colorful memes are posted.

I wait to see actual results (H/EV sales) before I pick up the vuvuzela and do a rhythmic dance. Right now, to date, H/EV sales have been disastrously poor. Growing, yes, but still disastrously poor. 

 

{insert 'deal with it' meme of your choice here}

 

Yes this is an evolution not a revolution of change. As of now companies are not even making money on the EV cars and little on the Hybrids. A lot of ground needs to be covered to make them more affordable and universally accepted. 

Too often people who live near salt water think the entire country has the same wants and needs as they do. Nothing could be more different than the life in Iowa and LA. No one may be wrong but they do have different needs and lifestyles and that is why it will take all forms to settle this transformation. 

Also along the way what ever is discovered can change the direction fast here. Who knows the EV could lose out to a yet undiscovered technology that may be found in the next ten years. 

Something new can always be just around the corner and you never know it till you discover it. 

 

You are reaching here Hyper....deep deep reaching trying to justify your own bias against EVs...

"As of now companies are not even making money on the EV cars and little on the Hybrids. A lot of ground needs to be covered to make them more affordable and universally accepted."

While this statement may be true....its a general statement...

Didnt GM and Chrysler go bankrupt and Ford mortgage the entire company because  they were losing money by building petrol powered cars?

And....in Tesla's case....too many factors involved on why they lose money....just like in the good ole boy Detroit 3's case on why they lost money....

I dont know Toyota's finances concerning the Prius...but because I know Toyota has the largest war chest of all auto makers, and because I know Toyota does not like to bleed money either....and that is why reluctantly they killed Scion and NOT Prius too, only scaling back Prius a tad suggests to me that Prius is actually a decent business model for them...

OK...not as popular...at the moment, for them to expand Prius, but enough loyal fan base to continue on with Prius...

Also...

400 000 plus pre-orders of the Model 3 suggest that EVs dont have THAT much work convincing people to buy EVs..

The Chevrolet Volt has also carved a sweet little niche for itself too...

As does the Nissan Leaf.

So nay to that statement...

"Too often people who live near salt water think the entire country has the same wants and needs as they do. Nothing could be more different than the life in Iowa and LA. No one may be wrong but they do have different needs and lifestyles and that is why it will take all forms to settle this transformation."

True.

Goes both ways though...

In Quebec...where I live...EVs make sense...a helluva lot of sense...

No one may be wrong...and yes we live differently than Los Angelenos and Iowans and therefore we all have different needs and lifestyles....but...if Los Angelenos and Quebecois are ready for EVs, that does not mean that people INSIDE these types of areas should just accept the  dooms day predictions from  people OUTSIDE these areas.....you know....

Washington state : 7 million people

British Columbia: 4.5 million people

California: 40 million people

Quebec: 8 million people

Ontario: 13.5 million people

That is at least 73 million voices that will probably make EVs  a very huge success in the next 5-15 years....there are other states and provinces also....but I think 73 million proves a point....not a majority by any means, but enough to at least be a niche???!!!

So while it does take all forms to settle a transformation....in at least these 2 regions (1. West Coast- Cali, Wash. and BC and the CDN East Coast of Ont & Que) and any other parts of North America too....this transformation has already begun, and are not scared to change either...time and money are the ONLY restrictions....the oil barrier has already been broken....

"Also along the way what ever is discovered can change the direction fast here. Who knows the EV could lose out to a yet undiscovered technology that may be found in the next ten years. 

Something new can always be just around the corner and you never know it till you discover it."

This statement smells of desperation...

Again, while it may ring true...because once again, its a general and vague statement that applies to EVERYTHING technological in ANY given time...

The problem here is....in 2016....there is no other technological tour de force that could rival ELECTRICITY...

The Chinese and the Greeks of ancient times....they worshiped electricity....Raiden and Zeus.....they were not dumb, they knew what the power of electricity meant....they just did not know how to harness it....

We do....

We learned how to use it to our advantage for quite sometime now.

BUT....We are just learning NOW how to keep it long term....

I dont think there is another fuel source as miraculous as electricity out there..

Maybe light...but I think it will take a visit by outer space immigrants to teach us to harness the power of the sun....as we havent got a clue yet to use that to our advantage....we use some of it to our advantage....nuclear fission and fusion....but we do great harm when we are not careful with it...or when we feel like imitating  vengeful Ancient Greek Gods with it....

Why yes indeed it is Montreal...someone know their city very well.

Last night, when I first saw your post, I was too tired to look at all the details.

I saw the Lincoln MKX and said to myself: cool crossover thingy, it maybe a pleasant looking Lincoln, but still a crossover thingy.

This morning, I was a a tad more focused and Les Habitats 67 caught my eye in the first pic. I said to myself: "boy, Ive seen that before" but the license plate in front of the Lincoln threw me off....in Quebec, the Province does not require license plates up front and upon closer inspection of the license plate I saw that it could be Ontario license plates....

So unto the next pic...Keg's Steakhouse and Bar.....English....License Plate IS from Ontario....

Wait a minute!!!!

That building, whether the signage is in English and not French looks awfully familiar....and cobble stone streets!!!!

Hey...that IS Habitiat 67 and cobble stone streets could ONLY MEAN Vieux Montréal...Old Montreal to the rest of you....

I LOVE my city Suave...

NYC gets all the attention in the East Coast...its the Big Apple. Its the city that never sleeps. If you could make it there you could make it anywhere....Its Wallstreet....its Time Square, Metropolis and Gotham....its the Statue of Liberty...

Boston in sports because their sports teams have won many championships in the last decade.

Miami..

Will Smith had a diddy a while back about Miami...

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

Miami, uh, uh

Southbeach, bringin the heat, uh

Haha, can y'all feel that

Can y'all feel that

Jig it out, uh

Here I am in the place where I come let go

Miami the base and the sunset glow

Everyday like a mardi gras, everybody party all day

No work all play, okay.......

In Canada...Toronto gets all the hype in the East Coast....

Grand Prix week is coming up....that means yet another crazy summer in Montreal gets kicked off...too bad Les Canadiens are not the ones to be 1 win away from the Stanley Cup because in a situation like  that....Montreal just becomes more alive..and THAT is a scary thought...but a very very very fun and crazy thought...

So....I get very excited when I see my city being shown anywhere, anyway, and anyhow by anybody that wants to showcase her!

So...sorry for my over excess show of emotion...

Im wanna talk about the commercial itself...

The visuals in this commercial are just plain awesome...

The old city in the backround is just stunning.

Grand, with a sense of historic presence. Chic and rich also play a visit.

With throwbacks to past Porsche glory in one way or other...

FANTASTIC!

GM brand's could benefoit from this style.

From Cadillac...especially Cadillac, to Buick and Chevrolet.

Instead, we got an almost same vibe with "Dare Greatly" with Cadillac, only to let that image flounder.

Buick's message is that they are not your father's Oldsmobile.

And Chevrolet is doing focus group shyte!

GM has got a lot to learn...yet ironically, 'twas GM that introduced the world to dream a little dream of grandeur in the 50s with their Motorama shows...

PORSHE has got it going on...all Johan and Ellinhaus has to do is just COPY Porsche's handbook of how to sell dreams!!!

 SUAVE....

Upon closer inspection of that Lincoln CUV thingy...I REALIZED that it may be MONTREAL in the backround!!!!

You sly devil you!!!

If I was into hatches, 3rd/4rth gen F-Bodies and Vettes aside, and knowing I coudnt cruise the vistas in an Oldsmobile anymore, Id go this route myself.

PS:

The only "Estate" branding I like comes from Chevrolet.

1971 Kingswood Estate

Hey!

ILL TAKE IT!!!!  WITH OPEN ARMS EVEN!!!

ANYTHING other than just another CUV on the agenda!

And in "M" flavour no less!!!

And let me remind you folk that the 2 Series and the M2 are probably modern BMW's purest form of what made BMW what they are known for...pure driving enjoyment with the whole Ultimate Driving Machine cliches. Hopefully they dont contaminate the DNA with this one...

^^^ That is the irony of it all, aint it?

Its a mad mad mad mad world we live in!

This would be a perfect "Deal with it" meme...

You said my choice, right?

It even has a vuvuzela in it!

Well that's one way to fix the tarnished Volkswagen brand in the US.  Sell the same cars as Skodas instead.

I was thinking the same thing.

I serious though in this way of thinking. Perhaps you are joking and less cynical than I am.

VW wants world domination and now that VW is practically done in the US market for mega volume, maybe they think Skoda could pick up the slack.

Or at least Skoda could give it a shot...they cant do worse than the VW name....

Arent all crossovers hideous, Suave?

They are in my book anyway!

*SIGH*

The writing is on the wall...Sedans are toast.

Somewhere in automotive hell...this guy is laughing his ass off...

Call me crazy, but Id rather the Eagle over any modern CUV/SUV....it looks better and probably hauls more stuff and hauls offroading ass as well...the reason why someone would by a 4x4 to begin with....

Not for a mm or two worth of snow on the ground preventing us from ordering a latte at Starbucks from their freshly shoveled drive-thru!

You are right Balthy, that politicians don't think through certain things....and yes, whether India or the Netherlands have not planned for it logicallyhell, New York and California too...

We all know though, what happens when politicians get that gleam in their eye...

Also, most people around the planet are having a change of heart towards pollution and the dirty car...

Yeah yeah...I know...coal burning electric plants...yada yada yada...

The EV is the golden boy as we speak...

No matter what...most people are ready to adapt to the EV, and don't care about the EV adapting to them...and most people have turned a blind eye with every dirty little secret involving electric infrastructure, batteries and everything else concerning EVs, Hybrids and such...

Hence my colourful post above...its full of those messages that I posted in this post...

The thing is...EVs are the next best thing to hit mankind...and by hook or by crook, the popular vote for EVs is only growing...

Between Silicon Valley types that think that they could change the world with autonomous driving, or the green people advocating emissions free electrics...(yeah I know...emissions free and coal burning electric plants...) and they are here to stay.

The gasoline powered car's days are numbered.

When most politicians around the world are battle yelling for the EV, most sheep will follow.

Some sheep (like me) live in an area where its beneficial to my local economy and we as a society are ready for EVs....other sheep don't know what havoc EVs might cuase if petrol powered cars are banned...don't matter, the times, they are a-changin'.

PS:

What adaptation requirements are there?

People charge their EVs from home!!!

WHEN range will be as good as petrol powered vehicles, the need for charging stations DECREASE!!!!

Plus...charging on the fly roadways are in our reach where we dont even have to stop!!!

Its the electric infrastructure that needs to be beefed up...are we as a planet producing enough electricity to support a world wide EV revolution??!!!  

THAT is the question...

True....about most people not wanting to change....status quo, and only change when they have to....preferably/

How does this tie in with electrics?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/norway-ban-gas-powered-cars_us_57559c81e4b0ed593f14f4f6

From the link:

Title:

Norway Might Try To Ban Gas-Powered Cars

From the article that was written...today:

Norway might try to leave gasoline in the dust. 

The Scandinavian country’s four major political parties reportedly agreed last week to ban the sale of gas- and diesel-powered cars by 2025, according to Electrek, citing a story in Norwegian paper Dagens Næringsliv. Though there’s some dispute about whether all parties actually support the proposal, it appears to be more ambitious than similar plans that have been considered recently in other parts of the world. 

India and the Netherlands have both batted around proposals to stop sales of gas-powered cars in the coming decades. Neither country has enacted a plan to see this through yet. In addition, several U.S. states, including New York and California, have weighed banning sales of gas-fueled cars by 2050. In contrast, Norway would seek to phase out gas-powered car sales much sooner.

 

By 2025...

New York and California by 2050....

Maybe...

By hook or by crook...

By want,  or by necessity...

By force or by will....

The electric car WILL replace the internal combustion one very very soon. 

We could go round and round in circles trying to undermine the power of the dark side...

Lets face it...we all have a little bit of fear and anger in all of us...

We will all succumb to the power of the dark side one way or other sometime...

Greased Lightning is awaiting its Tesla battery transplant and electric motor...

Dont hate the messenger, man!

Im only quoting what he is saying...

Deep down inside...we all know.... its the EV  the one that we want! Ooo,Ooo,Ooo!!!

In the history of oil and gasoline...

When was it ever "free" for ANYBODY, ANYWHERE on the PLANET to fill up for home heating or as automobile fuel?

A dozen or so of car dealerships in the Montreal area spanning different manufactures from  GM to Mercedes Benz(yes even Mercedes) all have had special offers in offering free gas for a year on a purchase of a new car the last couple years, but other than that....when was oil and gasoline offered for free for a good amount of time from a manufacturer or home builder ever?

We could say that Tesla Model S owners actually did pay for that in the price of the car....because nothing in life is free.

NO SHYTE!!!!!

"Nothing in life is free" is such a general statement it aint even funny!!!!

Even in death....I should know....I just finished with all that red tape in burying my mom...and although I knew about it before....a just got reacquainted with the fact that death is big business....oh....and I still have to file her taxes next year too for the 2 months she was alive in 2016....so as we were saying...

Nothing in life is free....

Tesla still has the electricity  bills to pay from the electricity service providers that provide the electricity...because we sure as hell know the electricity service providers arent giving the electricity they produce for free as that production also costs money...   

Tesla is bleeding money with the infrastructure they are building and  with the electricity they are providing....either in battery production form  or supercharging form....

So....we whine that Tesla is losing money...

and we whine beause Tesla is gonna charge for usage....as it should....

Boy...Tesla could never win with you folk....

PS: To think that a product or service is actually free....no cost or no charge...is naive...

Somewhere down the line...somebody is fitting the bill...somehow....

That Model S owners continue recharging without the hassles of pay as you play is PHENOMENAL...

It will not last...

Another general statement:

NOTHING LASTS FOREVER!!!

To think otherwise...is also naive....

Heard this song a couple of days ago on the radio. Im addicted to it!!!

But, Im torn apart inside.

I dont know how to handle it.

Part of me thinks it screws up the original. Part of me thinks its a total botch job and does the original no justice.

HOWEVER....the other part of me...the party animal side of me, the Greek part of me,  the part of me  where boys will always be boys no matter what age I am and damn it all to hell if Im a daddy...to a....10 year old girl....and she will grow up one day and hopefully will forgo all what transpires in that video and lyrics...but then again...its human nature...I cant stop her from becoming a woman...

Anyhoo...I absolutely LOVE this version of the song:

Cant get enough of it!!!!

Alternate video:

and the original:

REO SPEEDWAGON

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwtzUvcJIPw

Classic rock will NEVER die..but dayum!!!!

Too freakin' bad I aint 20 years old anymore so I could rock da clubs with Pitbull blasting on the dance floor with Messin' Around on the speakers and Im surrounded with chicas....

Its a good thing that I lived my 20s to the fullest in the 90s!!!

NO REGRETS!!!

I LOVE BOTH!!!

and I THINK I COULD ACCEPT THAT!!!

So....which version do you folk prefer?

Id rather go "down"  the "suck" road...

As in...RAM AIR...

That is as far as I go with a preference with all this  "forced induction" talk.

I much prefer naturally aspirated myself.

However....I dont seem to mind to go from suck to blow on occasion...

This being my favorite type of forced induction:

Oh Paula....what has happened to you?

I miss ya baby!

k-k-k-k-cold hearted

oooh ah ah

k-k-k-k-cold hearted

ssssssssnake!!!!

I dont know how I got from He-Man to Leila K, but I did!

Oh...Id like to stay in 1989.