oldshurst442

Honestly, you really have to be an ignorant fanboy to argue pushrod is better than OHC. Period.

Honestly, If one REALLY wants to be honest about it.....

One has to weigh all the positives and all the negatives of BOTH and one has to consider what is his engineering requirements before one makes a conclusion...and not a conclusion of what argument  of which is better than the other...but a conclusion of what works BEST for YOUR ENGINEERING REQUIREMENTS....

When one does not look at it that way, one is ignorant no matter what type of fanboy one is...

I dont want to insult you or nuthin', but that what you just spew ......was one ignorant statement.  PERIOD.

Brick on wheels is right!!!

It looks like it could be a next generation Dodge Caliber...

Sometimes, I get the

(creative juices...flowing)

(me being smug)

Its a shame Cadillac did not use this car's sex appeal to its fullest potential.

Drew...

You mentioned to SMK that they'd have a much bigger redesign challenge than what SMK suggests...

The ELR is based off of the 1st generation Volt platform which in itself is based on the 1st generation Cruze platform.

Am I correct with this assumption?

If Im correct, what SMK is suggesting....couldnt Cadillac/GM and Chevy  move parts around to make it happen?

Unless of course all that swapping being made on an "outdated" platform is not worth the hassle...

Call it ugly.

Call it fugly.

Call it boring and dull.

Call it any, anytime...because it's real.

At least Hyundai Corp. when they tease us with something sexy and provocative...

They has the

to produce.

Unlike Buick and Cadillac with their sexy and provocative stuff.

They tease us...

and then they kick us...

to tell us there is no Riviera, No Ciel, No El Miraj, No Avenir and no Avista.

Bunch of

That stop light in the back there wouldnt be legal in Québec...

It have to be in French.

I dont know really...Im just having fun..

But you never know in Québec with their crazy language laws!

Maybe those 2 key people were fired...

Maybe those 2 key people were responsible for the Model X snafus....

And....are any of us, or any other critic or analyst, economic or otherwise, amateur or professional, working for Tesla and know for 100% certainty at what prices the Model3 should sell for Tesla to make a profit?

Other than those questions I posed, points very well taken...

The rest....is just assumptions, worries, gossip, wishful thinking on both sides of the coin, and unnecessary drama...

Time will tell what is gonna become of Tesla, the Model 3, the production numbers, the delivery dates and the profits....

Guesstimating intelligently is still assuming...

As for Henry with a "Y" instead of Henri with an "i"...

I think en français des fois...(sometimes)

Henri Richard...younger brother of Maurice Richard...

11 Stanley Cup champion Henri is....

Henri-Bourassa Metro Station in Montréal

You could see how I would flub Mr. Ford's name...

Vive le Québec Libre I say...

But....but...what does that car have to do with Tesla, the Model S, X or 3? ....or even the Roadster?

Or are you eluding that Elon Musk will run-a-away with the $400 000 000 Model 3 deposits and hide on Mars?

Because he has a rocket ship....

Because you are forgetting one thing Reg...

$400 000 000 is a drop in the bucket for what Tesla the company has already invested in to make sure the Model 3 is a sales success and a hit and delivered to its customers...

Starting with..already delivered...several thousand cars already

with many boutiques and service centers all OVER THE WORLD!!!

Supercharging stations...all over the world, financed mostly by themselves

As opposed to 1 dealership for Elio Motors from that pic you posted!

Its OK....maybe Elon and Tesla chose the wrong country produce its cars and batteries...

Maybe Elon should have gone.....lets say....to France instead...

This way...some of you Americans could continue to whine that there are no manufacturing jobs left in the USA...

I dont like I HATE, DESPISE...LOATHE SUVs....but to be a good sport, Ill play this game.

There are only 4 mid-sized SUVs that I wouldnt mind owning...well, "wouldnt mind owning" is a very strong sentence that may not be that accurate.

Wouldnt mind being seen in....driver's side or even passenger side.

I wont mention the Wrangler because in this case, the Wrangler does not fit the mold for what the purpose of this thread is.

So no Frisky, I wont circumvent the idea behind your thread like I usually do...

Jeep Grand Cherokee

Ford Edge

And if the budget permits for this thread:

Cadillac XT5

The Model X...

I think Musk himself admitted he kinda let the hooplah surrounding Tesla and its popularity make poor decisions on it.

He confessed they over engineered the car.

http://www.businessinsider.com/musk-model-x-not-sure-tesla-will-make-2016-2

• "There was some hubris with the Model X," Musk said. "We over-engineered the car."According to the Tesla CEO, everything from the seals around the windows to the construction of the second-row seats proved to be hurdles.But Musk said the company overcame these issues, which led to a redesign of certain window seals and the insourcing of seat construction.
• Musk told journalists it was so hard to put together that Tesla probably shouldn't have made it in the first place.

When was the last time we heard from a traditional automobile manufacturer say it how it is and admit to errors?

Self admittance. Not from a court order...

Tesla self polices itself and learns from their missteps...well, it seems to be this way on the outside....

So...when I read stuff like self tap dancing on a rudderless boat...I kinda get upset...

OK...with that drama outta the way...

Im sure part of their fiscal well being, or lack their of, is because of the high costs of the technology involved.

And the high costs of constructing the biggest building in the world.

And then furnishing it with all kinds of very high tech furniture such as robots and sensors and stuff...

And then single handily making an infrastructure....worldwide..or at least in two countries that I know of... 

And of course cost over runs...which every manufacturer of any kind of product will experience...but especially a start-up. No longer a start-up?

Whatever I says....the Model S....it may need a skin re-do, it still represents the first real  car produced as a start-up...

The Ford Model T....took 2 decades to be replaced with very minor exterior details changed in that 2 decade span...I realize that what I just said about the Model T and 2 decades is very open to discussion, but to that I say.....semantics....

The Model 3....is still fresh....

Its a small step above vapor ware at this point...I agree.

However, I dont feel comfortable in doubting what Elon Musk has to say about the Model 3 as I doubt that Elon Musk is on the same footing as one called Sergio...

The Model S, as a first real car Tesla ever produced just about....perfect.

Relatively flawless...and I repeat...the first ever REAL car Tesla produced, and that is why I say it is flawless.

The Model X seems to have had the glitzes that a first real attempt at car building should have had....but Elon Musk is fully aware of all that...

I also think its foolish to doubt the power that the Tesla brand name holds.

400 000 people took pre-orders on a Model 3.

Delays?

The power of Tesla tells me that MOST of the people will wait for the Model 3 regardless the waiting time.

The Chevrolet Bolt?

Well, the Tesla brand name for ELECTRIC vehicles is waaaaaay more prestigious and powerful than a Chevrolet Bolt or Volt....and actually, for the short term, a Model S has just as much prestige as a Camaro or Corvette.

Meaning, a Model 3 has a waiting period?

Well, when a Chevy guy has to wait for the new Vette or Camaro to come out, and there might be a delay or recall or stop sale, such as it happened with the heat soak issues on the C7 Z06, did those guys run out to buy Ford Mustangs or Porsche Caymans?

No....no they did not!

Model 3 is at bat...will it hit a home run?

For Tesla's sake, it better at least make contact with the ball...

Like you said though....State of the Union status indeed....

I see many parallels with FoMoCo and Ford and Tesla and Musk.

http://www.history.com/topics/henry-ford

From the link:

• While working as an engineer for the Edison Illuminating Company in Detroit

Musk....co-founder of Pay-Pal...

Both were doing different things before ending up in the car biz...

• built his first gasoline-powered horseless carriage, the Quadricycle, in the shed behind his home. In 1903, he established the Ford Motor Company, and five years later the company rolled out the first Model T

Musk...started out at Tesla....in 2008, yeah, he didnt start the company, but helped out financially in 2008 when most all other car companies had financial problems in that same time frame...

Ford lost his companies twice (I thought it was only once) before FoMoCo got off its feet..

First EV Tesla produced was the Roadster....a body shell from Lotus...

4-5-6 years later did the Model S arrive...the EV that would revolutionize the world....

FoMoCo had the Model T....5 years after FoMoCo took off. A car that revolutionized the world....

• In 1896, he completed what he called the “Quadricycle,” which consisted of a light metal frame fitted with four bicycle wheels and powered by a two-cylinder, four-horsepower gasoline engine.
• Ford sold the Quadricycle in order to continue building other vehicles. He received backing from various investors over the next seven years, some of whom formed the Detroit Automobile Company (later the Henry Ford Company) in 1899.

     (this would be a sidebar...because Tesla learned faster to perfect the EV formula than Ford learned to perfect the automobile formula....sure....one could say that its easy to take an existing automotive formula to  transform that into an EV, especially when the Ford's 1st automobile was engineered in 1896....however, Tesla does not really use that formula, Tesla engineers also, added their ingredients to make the Tesla Model S....sure with the help of old school Detroit, I learned that from Peter DeLorenzo, but I think we should start stopping the question marks surrounding Tesla...)

• A month after the Ford Motor Company was established, the first Ford car—the two-cylinder, eight-horsepower Model A—was assembled at a plant on Mack Avenue in Detroit. At the time, only a few cars were assembled per day, and groups of two or three workers built them by hand from parts that were ordered from other companies.

This sounds so familiar....oh yeah....TESLA....

The “Tin Lizzie,” as the Model T was known, was an immediate success, and Ford soon had more orders than the company could satisfy. As a result, he put into practice techniques of mass production that would revolutionize American industry, including the use of large production plants; standardized, interchangeable parts; and the moving assembly line. Mass production significantly cut down on the time required to produce an automobile, which allowed costs to stay low. In 1914, Ford also increased the daily wage for an eight-hour day for his workers to $5

Well...the Model S did not take off like the Model T, but the Model 3 sure  did...

The use of large production plants for FoMoCo?

What about Tesla?

Oh yeah....the world's largest building producing lithium batteries....to get batteries prie tags low enough so more people could afford EVs...and everything else that requires batteries....that includes iPhones and powerdrills and lawn mowers...

I dont know about the wages part though...hopefully Musk does the same for his workers..

Even the car names are the same.

Model A, Model T, Model S, Model X

Musk....has accomplished something  in 2016 with the Model 3 that is very different than the Model T in 1916...

The automobile in the turn of the 20th century was a new thing....it was exciting.....it was the horseless carriage...

good deal, GM will be at the forefront of that, and will buy all the Tesla scraps.  Word is GM has a tesla S beater in the works for many thousands less......and possibly the Avista styling.

Ha!

Cadillac put the CT8 on hold..

The Avista is also a project that will eat dust...

Maybe, the next Regal will get styling cues from it...maybe...

Think about what that means....

And...if Tesla is scraps...why would GM waste good money for it?

Aint Voltec and Boltec superior technologies?

Yeah...that is right...GM does not need 400 000 pre-orders for the Bolt....

Lets see how many Bolts they actually sell versus the Model 3...

Hell, Ill give you Volt sells too...Lets see if GM could outsell Tesla by 2021 on EVs...

The thing is...Tesla has an electrifying personality that JDN wishes he could sell his sole for for Cadillac...

Sure 500 000 Tesla cars by 2018 is a very tough sell...for many reasons....Tesla logistics alone hamper that number...but dont kid yourself, 500 000 Tesla cars sold annually aint too far off from 2018...they have a strong fan base and following...

I wanna know if anybody in the early 1900s questioned Henri Ford and his visions?

Henri after all, lost his first company to bear his name...

Musk and his tap dancing.  Rudderless boat

Sorry Reg...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a29134/tesla-model-s-p85d-police-car-lapd/

From the LAPD...

The LAPD has apparently been impressed enough with the Tesla Model S that it's considering using them as police cars. The police department has been testing two high-performance P85D sedans for more than a year.

 

Partly due to its high price, the Model S won't see official duty for a while, but the LAPD already sees its potential in the long run.

"Is it practical now? No," said Yegiyan. But in "the next three to five years . . . not only will the industry push toward electrification, but prices will drop on vehicles. While that's occurring we'll be in the space learning and contributing to the process."

 

"In California, there's pressure from above and there's also a desire on the part of the (electric vehicle) manufacturers to get their vehicles out there," Tom Libby, an analyst at IHS Automotive, told CNBC.

But don't expect conventional automakers like Ford and Dodge to let Tesla move in on law enforcement fleet sales without a fight. "We are a leader in law enforcement, and we intend to remain the leader," Randy Freiburger, Ford police and ambulance fleet supervisor, told CNBC.

 

You folk could poke fun at Musk all you want..

The guy does not have to do anything, and people flock to his cars...

I think the guy knows what he is doing...I think its the naysayers and the status quo guys that are afraid of the electric storm that is heading our way...trying to find any little flaw they can whether its sales figure estimates or production capacity (it used to be trying to undermine the popularity of an EV or a Tesla but the Model 3 pre-orders muzzled that thought process...to undermine the blitzkrieg that is heading our way...

I just saw this....

COOL THREAD!

OK...from the two picks we got...Id go for the Buick GNX HANDS DOWN!!!!

The GNX would almost always win in any 1980s comparo with me.

But there are other cars from 1987 that Id drive just as happily.

1987 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham

1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic

1987 BMW M635 CSi

1987 RED  Pontiac Trans Am GTA T-Tops and those mags....

Notice....that the GNX and the Trans Am have the same mags? And the Bimmer M635CSi is similar?

I love those BBS mags!!!

Sorry Thed. I cant do that sound either.

Fart can exhaust notes dont do anything for me.

As far as that 10 000 RPM thing goes....I noticed the RX8 came alive at around the 6000 RPM range.

Yeah, that is awesome.

However, that 1978 Camaro....lunged forward a good 2 feet INSTANTLY as soon as the asshat pressed on the pedal.

It leaped forward like a lioness hunting for its prey, and it growled like a lion too...

He then stopped pressing the pedal, and pressed on the brake but the engine was loping louder and meaner, then he mashed the pedal down and darted off like a bat outta hell... not enough juice was given to spin or squeal the rear wheels _{(he did slow down enough not to be a real dik and kill somebody, but enough speed was collected that drew the ire of many parents present non-the-less)}but with enough force to know that the V8 under the hood is not a smog era choked Chevy Small Block...that car moves...and it moves INSTANTLY....and THAT is what gets me excited, low RPM grunt.

Most of the time for me....its that very classic muscle car trait that attracts me.

Low RPM grunt that permits the muscle car to leap forward NOW at the slightest touch of the accelerator peddle and that glorious loping V8 sound.

Thanx Drew.

Took the words right out of my....um...keyboard.

Mr. DFELT...

Ive hidden those photos  from my wife and kids....no chance in Hades will Ill be posting them in here!

Yeah..they are embarrassing, to say the least!

Im at work. I don't have speakers installed on the computer....yet.

So...Im anxiously awaiting to hear the RX8 rev,.

Ill agree. A 2nd generation F-Body Camaro is no Trans Am... 

Honestly, if I had seen a mid 1990s RX-7 instead of the RX-8 Id probably choose it over the Camaro myself....

Maybe not...

Those T-Tops and that V8 sound...but then again, Ill have to hear the RX8 rev...

CCAP...I believ that crappy stance is called Hella Flush.

Sledneck from MT posted a link for me to read for that kind of mod.

The article was from Quebec...anfd it stated that it is illegal in Quebec this type of mod to be driven on the street.

Ah yes Casa...

It pains you...it pains you because you know deep down inside...Im right!!!

One man's gaudiness is another's paradise!

The Ancient Greeks had a story about such....excessive, lavish, arrogant ways of wealth...King Midas and his touch...

Unfortunately for you, that kind of gaudiness is as old as man-kind...

Hence Cadillac hinting that is Cleopatra being carried away...

And we all know how not only Cleopatra,  but ALL of Ancient Egypt's Pharoes dressed themselves and decorated all their crap with...GOLD and all kinds of silk pillows and excessive head gear and what not...

The interior of the Parthenon....in Athens...GREECE...was decorated the same way.

And then an Indian Prince...in that Cadillac commercial.

Have you been to an Indian wedding?

Yeah...that is what Cadillac is eluding to in that commercial...

Luxury...and what it means...

Luxury is a personal definition...

To some, simplicity is what it is...to others...

LAVISH, EXCESSIVE, GAUDY, ARROGANT

The Cadillac Escalade....drowns in that shyte!

Every Cadillac pre-1970s....DROWNED in that shyte...

The ONLY Cadillac to be a run-a-away LEADER in its segment is the ONLY Cadillac to NOT hide its past and its intentions!

Hence the commercial.

Donald Trump.

Is the quintessential successful American driving around in...a Cadillac...in 2016...in an Escalade when in the 1950s he might have had an Eldorado...

But...The Donald does not own ANY Cadillac does he?

He owns Maybachs!

The Oil Shieks down in the Middle East...

Have you seen their properties?

Gaudy as hell!!!

Gold wrapped Bugatti Veyrons and Aventadors with Gold Wrapped Mulsannes...

And...CADILLAC ESCALADES!!!

Pool Side Commercial...and that Escalade Indulgence Commercial...and Donald Trump...

Is what Cadillac the brand,  the Escalade and the American Dream is all about! 

Be embarrassed of the Donald all you want...I recall though, that you LOVED the Pool Side Commercial...

Mercedes-Benz has taken over Cadillac's old turf...

The Kind is Dead!

Long Live the King!

Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss to paraphrase it another way.

Written by The Who.

The Ancient Greeks had another story to tell...something about sour grapes...

OK....

This charade in making fun of the interior of that S Class  has GOT to stop!!!!

Other than a few misalignments, INDULGENCE is what THAT is called...

Lavish, excessive, arrogant....

Cadillac of all ironies....made a commercial for it!!!

Donald Trump's NYC residence bathroom interior

Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance.

Is/was just a gaudy for its time..

We get it Casa..America is awesome....its cars are awesomer!!!!

Germany is Satan....

I share your sentiments...

HOWEVER....Cadillac and the CT6 are nowhere NEAR what the last REAL Cadillac Brougham D'Elegance represented....and it wasnt the 1992 version either that I talking about.....go back FURTHER into time....

Hell the Escalade aint nowhere near the 2016 S Class Maybach, despite what that 2-3 year old commercial states...

Let me repeat....LAVISH, EXCESSIVE, GAUDY, ARROGANT...

These are all CADILLAC traits!!!

Dont be jealous that Mercedes Benz has taken over Cadillac's old turf!

The Best... or a GM W-Body

I like a W-Body...

FWD and a V8...

Id like to see if "engineered like no other" could actually pull it off as good as GM did...

The XJ is sweet from the front and profile, but the rear bumper and taillights are disgusting..

I agree to 75% of what you said...

Agree with:

Sweet front profile =  25%

Sweet side profile = 25%

Disgusting rear bumper = 25%

75%

The remaining 25%:

I disagree with the taillights being disgusting....I like those.

I find the headlights to be weird though....but I like those too...

The front nose needs to be massaged a tiny bit to become more sexy, like a true Jaaaaaag.

The rear as well, but no biggie, all luxury cars suffer from boring butt...

BMW suffered from weird butt...

Better to suffer from bland butt than to suffer from weird butt...

The CTS coupe suffered from Nicky Minaj butt....

No wait, I like Nicky Minaj butt...

The CTS coupe just suffered fro good ol obese American butt...

 

Also remember the S-class has laser drilled windshield wiper blades that dispense washer fluid.  The level of technology is unmatched.

 

Except of course by my '94 Oldsmobile which also had wiper blades that dispensed washer fluid... 

 

Dont forget that Buick also had a system that squirted heated washer fluid in the late 1990s or early 2000s or sometime in the last decade....HEATED...

But if I recall, the system was recalled and dismantled for whatever reason....

IF Cadillac will mothball a CT8, then a CT6 and the Escalade BETTER be getting SOMETIME SOON that kind of S Class Maybach interior....

I think that is what Suave is eluding too...

Fashion in the 1970s....just SUCKED!

I had to where kiddie versions of those $h!ty styles....

Ive got pictures, plenty of them, and since my momma has past, Ive reconnected with those old family albums...

OH THE HORROR, I tell you!

Easy peasy.. choice....

For the T-Tops and the V8.

Rust does not bother me....rust is a close friend of mine in these here parts.

Hell. Id take Bumblebee....even with Transformer logos all around with the rust included!