oldshurst442

ALL sites that Ive read...and Ive read plenty...all hypothesize that the 35 thousand base model has a range of 319 miles. Suggesting a bump of 69 miles over the previous version. BECAUSE The way THIS latest advert is laid out...it states: 319 mile range starting around $34 995. But let us speculate shyte just to have a fake "gotcha" moment on some shytty stance of whatever you wanna fight over. Not realizing the marketing dilemna of having a smaller Bolt EV that was nixed then revived that used to be in the 30 000 dollar range that the Equinox EV was to reside in but will return and what happens in the line-up when it returns so the Equinox EV gets a 15% price jump but ALSO gets a a similar percentage, if not more, bump in battery and range to offset price jump. Forgetting that another EV is ALSO supposed to be introduced BELOW the Equinox that was initially nixed but revived. NOT quite a Tesla bait and switch... Ill repeat... You sure you are not Greek? Because you got the drama (queen) part of being Greek down pat.

To be fair about the 5 thousand bump in price, Chevrolet added a larger battery to the Equinox EV that NOW, the base Equinox EV has a 19 mile range bump on the previous 30 thousand version. PROBABLY to leave distance in the Bolt in price and in range. UNLIKE Tesla... I am not surprised about this news. I was wondering where the Bolt 2.0 was going to fit it with the 30 000 price threshold. I dont particularly like it the fact the this happened. But Im not up in arms about it either and Im certainly not comparing this shytty move with Tesla's shytty move as GM's move aint really that shytty as GM will PROBABLY will offer a 30 000 dollar EV in the Bolt 2.0 while ALSO offering a 35 thousand dollar Equinox with a BUMP in electric range as a peace offering for the yellers and a REAL reason to bump up the price. Distance the Equinox from the Bolt... Tesla is still promising a 30 000 dollar or lower vehicle. Still hasnt delivered it. Not quite the same shyttiness. The Model 3's standard range is 272 miles. The long range is 333 miles. (car and driver numbers) The Model Y's standard range is 303 while the longe range is 330. (car and driver numbers) The Equinox EV range is claimed to be standard 319 miles (up from 300) (car and driver numbers). I cant find range numbers for the more expensive versions. Chevrolet's range numbers, if accurate, are just about on the upper echelon of all others in its class (Mach E, KIA EV6, VW ID4...) and STILL comes out cheaper than EVERYONE ELSE... And...there is STILL a model that MIGHT come in CHEAPER... So yeah, we could all pretend to be peeved off at this and say this or that about it, compare it to Tesla's bait and switch but STILL waiting to see if Tesla will add a 30 000 dollar to their line-up. (rolls eyes with the the drama) You sure none of youse are Greek? Because the drama youse uprise ssure looks Greek to me.

In the US (for 2022)...that figure is not 2%, but 5.7% of THE total sales of new vehicles. If that figure continues to grow remains to be seen. GM, Ford, Tesla, Mercedes of what Ive read doent think it will grow in the next few months or even couple of years because of several factors. Ive posted some links with some valuable knowledge in my lost few posts. So 2022 was a REALLY good year for EVs. 2023 up until Oct, things will going really well as well. Its Oct 2023 and beyong for the near future that is worrisome. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/02/25/us-electric-car-sales-increased-65-in-2022/ According to our calculations, approximately 5.7% of US car sales were fully electric car sales in 2022. That’s up from 3.2% in 2021, 1.7% in 2020, and 1.4% in 2019. Im not going to research what country or market EV sales percentages are, but GLOBALLY (China leading the way), EV sales reached 10 million units accounting for 14% of NEW vehicle sales. EVs do have a 60% market share there though. And in the same link, WORLDWIDE estimates that EVs will reach 14 million units... https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/26/electric-car-sales-surged-by-55percent-in-2022-to-hit-over-10-million-iea.html “This explosive growth means electric cars’ share of the overall car market has risen from around 4% in 2020 to 14% in 2022 and is set to increase further to 18% this year, based on the latest IEA projections,” a statement accompanying the report noted. And in the same link, WORLDWIDE estimates that EVs will reach 14 million units... "Looking ahead, the Paris-based IEA — seen by many as an authoritative voice on the energy transition — said it was estimating worldwide sales to reach almost 14 million in 2023." All to say that your figure of 2% is wildly inaccurate, even by ONLY using US sales. Sure, there is fear of a great letdown in the US for EV sales, its not JUST EV sales that will be hurting. ICE vehicles will most probably BE affected too. Inflation and high loan interest rates does NOT discriminate between ICE and BEV... But most scaredy cat Americans that have been fed bullshyte lies about EVs WILL most probably stay away from EV purchases rather than ICE if one HAS to buy a vehicle in this shytty economical climate. I know I did. I traded in my Acura, got my wife's Fusion and biught her a 2024 ICE Honda Civic. For this reason that you have stated: But the thing is: show me WHERE in the HELL in Canada AND in the United States OF America can I buy a NEW internal combustion engined car for 20K? Answer is I CANNOT! No vehicle IN Canada and in the US can I buy such a thing. In MExico I can. But Ameri-Canadians do NOT want THAT kind of vehicle... A subcompact. Compacts barley sell. And even those have risen ABOVE 20K. The Civic in Canadian dollars cost me 28 thousand and change CDN for a BASE model. IN the US...the BASE Civic starts at 23 thousand and change USD. Even a bloody Civic cannot be had at your 20K mythical price tag. Lets be honest and real. Let us NOT stretch truths to fit our agendas. Its not really a pipe dream though. Forget about China. Lets see what other car markets have to say about EV sales percentages (I will do some research on other car markets) In Germany, BEVs reached 17.7% in 2022 https://europe.autonews.com/sales-market/germanys-bev-market-share-almost-catches-diesel-2022 In France...17.4%. And that would be BEVs. Of we accounted for plug-ins in Germany and France, the percentage would be a lot higher... https://insideevs.com/news/677538/france-plugin-car-sales-june2023/ Its fine if an EV does not fit your needs. An EV did not fit in my current state of financial realities AND in my daily driven requirements. I do not drive enough to offset the savings in gas to justify a high priced EV. Actually, I couldnt even afford a mid priced internal combustion vehicle. ( I buy new) So I had to settle for the cheapest available priced new internal combustion vehicle I could find. And at 28 000 Canadian dollars, THAT would be the CHEAPEST NEW internal combustion vehicle available (multiple contexts for the usage of the word available) in Canada (Quebec). But, we do have to be truthful about realities and our agendas...

Common dude... GM has more assets than Tesla does. GM sells more cars than Tesla does. GM has the ability to have more capacity not only in EV production, but in battery production. Forgetting even their production capacity of ICE vehicles. You know that Tesla's market cap is smoke and mirrors... Too many people invested too much money when Tesla was losing billions and THAT is why Tesla's market cap is where its at. But if Tesla starts losing money again, and its quite possible, that cutting your losses will be the new norm for Tesla... GM and Ford are delaying because the they will not be losing billions just for the sake of losing billions. Tesla was losing billions but investors kept pumping money into Tesla. Investors are fidgeting about Tesla's erosion in market share and Tesla's price cuts... GM and Ford like Elon have seen a trend where Americans may be wary of buying EVs. Due to many reason. Inflation and high interest rates as one reason. Another is the demand for EVs maybe stalling INCLUDING those from Tesla. Tesla aint the EV god it once was. Erosion of market share PROVES this. GM saw that their EV adoption rate from clients will take time to establish. Longer than expected. So GM is cautiously repositioning their sales targets. Like Elon has just stated. EVERYBODY is in the SAME BOAT regarding EV sales in the US. Elon blames interest rates. Investors are not exactly agrreing with that. Investors are agreeing with the reality check of inflation AND interest rates so they applaud Elon for the precautionary statements and precautionary visions of Cybertruck sales etc. But they also figure that the slowdown of Tesla sales are NOT exactly what Elon says 100% , but mostly because of market erosion and they worry that Tesla might NOT be able to overcome this massive influx of cometiton and their EVs... Same message I posted now with a THIRD and DIFFERENT source... The rest of your post is not an opinion based in reality... https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/19/tesla-shares-sink-6percent-following-earnings-commentary-by-elon-musk.html During the company’s quarterly call with investors, CEO Elon Musk shared pessimistic commentary about the state of the global economy, expressing concerns about the high interest rate environment and said it makes it harder for consumers to buy cars. Musk said Tesla is working to bring down the costs of its vehicles, which it will prioritize before the company goes “full-tilt” on building a new factory in Mexico. “We have to make our products more affordable so people can buy it,” Musk said on the call. Analysts at Bank of America reiterated their neutral rating on the stock and reduced their estimates for Tesla’s fourth quarter and out years due to its “lower gross margin profile.” The analysts also expressed some surprise about how much time Musk dedicated to discussing the global economy. “Interestingly, Elon Musk (CEO) dedicated a large amount of time to the broader macro environment and the effects of currently high interest rates,” the Bank of America analysts wrote in a Thursday note. Similarly, Morgan Stanley analysts said Thursday that despite Tesla’s disappointing third-quarter results, the “cautious commentary” around the economy is what “set the tone for the immediate stock reaction.” “In our opinion, 3Q23 was one of the most cautious Tesla conference calls we’ve heard in years,” the Morgan Stanley analysts wrote. They added that it’s fair to be concerned about interest rates but questioned how much of Tesla’s caution is actually due to competition or slowing demand. During the investor call, Musk also said he wanted to “temper expectations for Cybertruck,” Tesla’s sci-fi inspired truck. He noted that it will take a year or longer before the vehicle is a “significant positive cash flow contributor,” and that the vehicle will be challenging to mass-manufacture. “We dug our own grave with Cybertruck,” Musk said. Musk’s commentary was enough to worry analysts at Deutsche Bank. “Tesla’s 3Q earnings miss and cautious forward-looking comments around vehicle demand, 2024 growth outlook, slow and expensive ramp of Cybertruck, and uncertain timeline of next-gen platform, reinforce our published concerns on the company’s challenging fundamentals heading into next year,” the Deutsche Bank analysts wrote in a note Thursday. The analysts said they have continued concerns over Tesla’s 2024 growth.

If Tesla's EV are selling, so is everybody elses. And hence Tesla's market share eroding... But THAT is not the narrative. If EV sales are (or they are going to be) stagnant, THAT includes Teslas. And THAT would be the narrative for Oct. 2023 and going forward. Im not cherrypicking. Im reading what the media is telling me. But Mary Barra is telling me that and so is Elon. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-gm-and-even-tesla-are-warning-about-the-ev-market-194905657.html "We are also moderating the acceleration of EV production in North America to protect our pricing, adjust to slower near-term growth in demand, and implement engineering efficiency and other improvements that will make our vehicles less expensive to produce, and more profitable," CEO Mary Barra said in her Q3 shareholder letter. GM, in pushing back its EV truck expansion earlier this month, noted “evolving EV demand” as the main reason why it was slowing its EV truck volumes. Even Tesla (TSLA) CEO Elon Musk, perhaps the biggest EV evangelist in the industry, poured cold water on the EV market and general economic landscape. Musk noted on Tesla’s conference call last Wednesday that the company was delaying construction of its upcoming Gigafactory in Mexico due to concerns about global economic conditions stemming from rising interest rates that make financing cars more expensive for consumers, thus crimping demand. “I’m worried about the high interest rate environment we’re in,” Musk said, adding, “I just can’t emphasize enough how important cost is. … We have to make our products more affordable so people can buy [them].” https://gvwire.com/2023/10/27/gm-and-tesla-ceos-voice-concerns-over-ev-market/ GM’s CEO, Mary Barra, who has been a strong advocate for EVs, announced during the company’s Q3 earnings call that GM is stepping back from its goal to produce 100,000 EVs in the second half of this year and another 400,000 by the first half of 2024. The company did not provide a new timeline for achieving these targets. Tesla’s Elon Musk also warned of potential economic issues that could dampen vehicle demand, even for the leading EV manufacturer. Mercedes-Benz, which has had to offer significant discounts on its EVs to boost sales, described the EV market as “brutal.” Most EVs are currently selling below their sticker price, and manufacturers are offering incentives of nearly 10% to encourage sales. However, these strategies are not proving effective, as EVs are taking longer to sell than their gasoline counterparts due to concerns over cost, infrastructure, and lifestyle changes. Ford was the first to adjust its EV strategy, extending its deadline to reach annual EV production of 600,000 by a year and abandoning its 2026 target to build 2 million EVs. Honda also scrapped plans to co-develop affordable EVs with GM, citing the unpredictable EV market. NOT this time around. Investors will NOT help. The government? Tesla is NOT too big to fail like GM or Chrysler was. HOWEVER...Tesla WILL stay alive though. They WILL exist. Just not producing vehicles. They will exist providing supercharger stations and selling EV motors and EV software programs to OEMs...

I LOVE Montreal from the last week of April/1st week of May all the way to the last week of December. I HATE Montreal from January to April. Only thing keeping me alive in Montreal IS the maple syrup!

oh...kay. I could accept that kind of situation. I would want to modify it just a tad for MY ideal weather. 4 months of summer 3 months of Spring (1 month...month and a half of that crappy winter to spring transition as that is necessary for MAPLE SYRUP. I LOOOOVE maple syrup. I also love when summer is oh so close and you could smell summer coming in that nice warm spring breeze air. ) 1 month of winter (2 weeks of snowstorms because I actually do like them. And also necessary for that maple syrup. 2 weeks of freezing weather. Because of that fantabulous maple syrup) 4 months of autumn. The North East colours. The summer is over breeze. Even the winter is coming coldish air breeze is nice too.

I agree. BTW What is Baltazar doing these days? I know Ive read a post of yours not so long ago that you talk to Baltazar from time to time. Not often I know. But I do wanna know how he is dong and if he will evah come back? I miss him.

You dont get it. EVs in the US are NOT selling right about now. Tesla is trying to keep market share. Tesla is slashing prices. Tesla's market share will CONTINUE to erode. Tesla if it continues to slash prices, Tesla's profits go down... Tesla wont have enough cash to engineer 2nd gens of their S-3-X-Y lineup and NOBODY will bankroll them any money. Tesla NEEDS 2nd generations...when everybody else has NEWER EVs... DESPITE people NOT buying EVs at an enourmous rate. And keep that in mind, EVs are not selling. Tesla's economies of scale falls even further not ONLY because of competition eroding their market share but ALSO, EVs are NOT selling in high demand. Tesla or otherwise. Right now. At this 3rd quarter as I have read. If THIS trend continues, GM has gasoline powered cars to help them ride the transition of havong cash flow. If Americans REFUSE to buy EVs up UNTIL the 11th hour as they say, GM HAS ICE vehicles to HELP them with the CASH flow... Tesla's cash flow will be low... Like I said, NOBODY will allow Tesla to lose BILLIONS like Tesla done the first decade of 12 or 13 year of their existence. If this trend continues up until 2035, Tesla WONT make it...

Just going by whatever I see and hear. Picking and choosing (you could call it cherry picking if you'de like) the information I hold regarding EV production not only for Tesla, but for everybody else as well. Mining for batteries is the SAME cost for EVERYBODY. Battery production costs might and DOES differ, but BIIIIIG manufacturers such as GM will always find a way to reduce costs since they have BIGGER connections and suppliers as compared to Tesla DESPITE Tesla having a jump on battery prodution factories. GM's SUPERIOR know-how in manufacturing compared to Tesla offsets any monies that Tesla has an advantage over GM's battery production. Tesla...despite what Munroe wants to sell us on...STILL wastes a lot of time and energy and useless production techniques for its EVs. GM has refined theirs over their 120 years of history... https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-says-cybertruck-faces-enormous-production-challenges-tesla-2023-10 "We dug our own grave with the Cybertruck," Musk said. It's "one of those special products that comes along only once in a long while. And special products that come along once in a long while are just incredibly difficult to bring to market to reach volume, to be prosperous," he added. Yeah...I know this is about the Cybertruck... But...its funny how Elon and Sandy Munroe talk a BIIIIIIIG GAME about scaleability from top to bottom, but...the Model S and Model X are on one platform. The Model S had teething problems in the beginning, Im not so sure of those were fixed and the amount of Model S-esses being sold, the over-cost production run on the Model S simply doesnt show on how in-effecient it is to produce it. THAT was WORSE on the Model X with the gullwing doors. Im not so sure Elon fixed the over complicated production of them but with the small amounts they sell, the ineffeciencies simply dont show up. The MEAT of the losing mony comes with the Model 3 and Y. Again, on DIFFERENT platforms than the Model S and X. NO scaleability from top to bottom as Sandy Munroe LOVED to wax poetic on how Tesla does manufacturing. 4 models but just a pair of platforms. And the Model 3 and Model Y havent sold as much to offset ALL the shytty production faults that the Model 3 and Y had in the beginning. I DO know that Elon fixed this issue with the Model 3 factory in China and he was supposed to fix the American plants. Did he? If he did, millions were spent. Millions that were NOT spoken for... If he didnt, the production costs must be through the phoquing roof with the amounts of Model 3s and Ys they sell... The amounts they sell, if fixed, maybe just about NOW that the renovations are paying themsleves off... The Cybertruck: Yet ANOTHER platform. And straigh from the horses mouth, that the Cybertruck is a production hell vehicle. Meaning Elon's production gurus didnt learn a DAMNED thing on how to produce an EV to make profit with. And dont forget, the Cybertruck is yet on another platform. NO scaleability from top to bottom... GM's Ulitium platform and ALL of their EVs are an offshoot of one another... From the GARGATUAN Hummer. Which the Cybertruck comes within with a few pounds of the Hummer. To the 350 000 dollar Celestiq to the supposed 30 000 dollar Equinox to everything in between... If Mary Barra says that as of now, $30 000- $40 000 GM EVs are not profitable, but will be when more battery factories come online (Tesla produces MORE than GM now) and when EV production ramps up and GM produces 1 million. Well...Tesla produces 1 million EVs, but Tesla does NOT offer a 30 000 dollar EV and REFUSES to offer the Model 3 at that 30 000 dollar threshold and Tesla's slashed prices and profits from Tesla has plummeted quite a lot. And THAT is how I cherry pick my opinion on why Tesla may ALSO lose money on EVs costing 30 000 dollars. Maybe Tesla does not lose @ 40 thousand. But Tesla DEFINETELY loses @ 30. SAME as everybody else...

Yes they can. Especially the legacy OEMs. They make gas powered cars. Tesla doesnt. Tesla's vehicle prices arent profitable between 30 000 and 40 000 also. EV sales are pointing to be stale. Tesla wont make it to 2035... Tesla does not have all that money... If they did have all that money and profit legit, without all the smoke and mirrors with polution credits and all that garbage, they'de slash more money off the 3 and Y to get to that 30 000 dollar threshold. To stop the market erosion and to actually put a nail in the coffin of their competitors. They dont do because Tesla LOSES money at those price points. Investors wont support Tesla losing billions again...

https://insideevs.com/news/692967/gm-ditches-goal-building-400000-evs-north-america-through-mid-2024/ Stories about EVs not selling in the US market. UAW strikes GM is truly re-adjusting their sales targets. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/25/gm-honda-scrap-plans-to-co-develop-affordable-sub-30000-evs.html GM and Honda partnership TO co-develop affordable EVs has dissolved. But...the EV sales thing from Tesla is also following GM's path. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-joins-gm-ford-slowing-ev-factory-ramp-demand-fears-spread-2023-10-19/ https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/tesla-s-slowing-growth-is-sending-a-warning-to-all-ev-makers-1.1987490 The gossip in town is that Elon "lost" 28 billion dollars. If he continues to make Tesla price cut because Tesla continues to lose markert share amd Elon will continue to "lose" billions. But that doesnt matter. It seems that all is not well in EV land. Despite government laws forcing the bans of gas power, if now until then, Americans arent going to buy EVs, it does not matter of Mary Barra saying that 30 000-40 000 dollars EVs are not profitable, GM will bleed too much money to stay afloat. But with that broad stroke of reality, Tesla ALSO loses money on THAT price range EVs but at least GM SELLS gas powered cars to have cash flow. Tesla does not have gas power on their roster. Tesla bleeds money is what Im saying. THIS time around, I dont think ANYBODY will subsidize Tesla losing billions like they done for a decade 2 or 3 years prior...

LOL looking at cat videos, I came upon this one. It seems appropriate enough after that nuclear attack I had to endure. LOL

True true. Disclaimer: The image expressed in this gif are only for comedic effect and property of some sort of Hollywood movie. Any image and actions presented in that gif may or may NOT be condoned by myself.

LOL you proved the article right. By you saying the article was sensationalist journalism you are proving their sensationalist view of what and how people ignore Toyota's problems. Thanx for the laugh. PS: Love that middle finger photo of the man in black. Ive used it a couple of times myself. Thanx for the regifting.

Compared to the Model Y? The Mach-E is very comparable to the Model Y is EVERY metric. The Model Y is Tesla's 5th attempt at an EV. 1. Roadster 1.0 2. Model S 3. Model X 4. Model 3 5. Model Y The Mach - E is Ford's 1st attempt. The Mach-E is quite the accomplishment and NOT how you want to present it.

And yet Ford ALSO said that they would be profitable in selling EVs as soon as MORE models come to fruition... As of now, economies of scale aint kicking in... And as it turns out...by the end of next year. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ford-ceo-out-to-prove-wall-street-wrong-on-crazy-high-ev-goal-1.1922468#:~:text=Farley has promised its first,third of Ford's global production. And if you think Farley is overselling... Dont tell me ANY of that UNLESS you acknowledge that Elon Musk ALSO oversells... Meaning... you BETTER believe that Tesla is NOT making all that money and that Tesla is NOT all that profitable and Tesla is NOT that huge juggernaut that Elon wants all of us to believe. So if Elon is allowed to oversell, so should Jim Farley be allowed.

heavily modified MEANS that it is NOT the C2 platform and hence the NEW designation... In FACT...GE1 is an acronym for GLOBAL ELECTRIFIED 1. The GE1 is still a bespoke platform. A DEDICATED EV platform. Engineered at the same time as the C2 platform to save costs as probably, the GE1 platform FROM the CD2 platform could be reworked and rescaled to accomodate ALL the vehicles from the CD2 platform to become 100% BEVs. GE2 and GE3 and someforth and so forth... Meaning. When FoMoCo engineered the C2 platform and brought it out in 2018, FoMoCo had it in their engineering plans to heavily modify it to make the GE1 and THAT is how the Mach-E was introduced as fast as it was without ANYBODY knowing how and why Ford had a legit 100% battery electrical CUV to sell in 2020 when FoMoCo hadnt announced anything about a BEV EV... Probably because FoMoCo hasnt learned just yet where they can lose weight where it aint necessary. It is the first try after all. The Mach-E is OVER engineered and the Mach-E launch videos actually EXPLAIN that the Mach-E is overengineered because Ford doesnt want to phoque things up ESPECIALLY when they have named it a Mustang Mach-E... But yeah...its nice to spin things negatively...

PSS: little adjustements NEED to be made. I aint THE boss. I am A boss. Not THE Boss. HUGE reality check I just faced today. Im humbled and THAT is a GOOD thing!!!

I was sent home early by my employer today. Turns out that customers are shyte. Shyttier than my former customers when I had my restaurant. Turns out I cant tell them how I truly feel. He got my back, my director that is. But I need to learn that in the corporate world, Karens are not exactly frowned upon. We just ignore a Karen, smile and direct the Karen gently outside the premises. And if that dont work, we let the director handle the situation and he will give a corporate smile and he will gently escort the Karen to where the Karen needs to go. I cant tell a karen to go to hell. My director cant either. But he did tell me I need to manage my emotions better. I...as a manager, need to calm things down and not escalate further. And hence why I was told to go home to relax. Its funny as in my restaurant, myself, my former partner, RIP, or my manager, never felt the need to gently deal with a Karen. We dealt with Karens bang and boom. But that was with a small family restaurant. *SIGH* Welcome to the corporate world... Oh well... PS The 25 plus years that I had the restaurant, only in the beginning did I have CONSTANT Karen problems. Oh yeah...THAT phenomenon aint new. But my partner and I chased ALL the bad in faith customers away and we CULTIVATED a clientele FREE from that kind of buklshytte!!! This new job and Karens are...EVERYWHERE!!!

There is nothing to explain as he is lying through his teeth when he says that... He knows that the Mach-E is built on a pure bespoke EV platform. This also a lie... However... Tesla's production efficiency is non-existent. Elon lies a lot. Therefore... Tesla's price cuts and Tesla is bleeding money meaning that the measley $1 250 rebate of the Model 3 and the $2000 rebate of the Model Y are monies that interfere with the Model 3s and Model Ys profits meaning small rebates of vehicles that have sold as much as they have and produced as much as they have and the production lines of Tesla are not up to legacy automobile manufacturer's srandards. Meaning if FoMoCo is losing $60 000 on each Mach-E sold, then Tesla ALSO is losing money on each Model 3 and Model Y sold. ESPECIALLY on rebate. Meaning Tesla cannot sustain rebates... The thing is...Elon started a price war Tesla cant afford. His mouth is writing checks his ass cant cash... But its nice to find faults with GM or Ford or anybody else but hypocritically defend Tesla. Sounds like a Toyota argument come to think of it. @surreal1272 Hope your hip surgery went well, buddy, even thought I would have NEVER have thought to paint you as a brand nut jobber! But...it is Toyota you defend, so it makes sense. Apple, Toyota and Tesla...

Lets see. For: NOT a Toyota Against: Not a real production car For: still a classic GM Pontiac from the '50s Against: still truckish in looks. Verdict Ill pass.