ccap41

41 minutes ago, David said:

I took the time to add up all the quarters, I did look at all the financials and yes the last few years were profitable, but I did this fast so if messing up on 2021 is all that I missed then my bad, but over all the counter point to SMK BS is that Tesla has BLEED money for over a decade before making a profit and here we have Legacy auto companies that have done what Tesla took 2 decades to do in a couple of years, so yes losses are going to be high at the start for anyone.

I don't know why you added anything up. What I showed you was the 2021 Q4 10-k. It was the totals for the years in the snippets, 2019-2021. It wasn't just a Q4 report, it was for the entire year. 

I don't know what numbers you're getting showing losses but if you subtract the ARC from the bottom line, they're still profitable. The ARCs were not keeping them afloat in 2021.  

I'm also not exactly sure how you can facepalm data directly off of the SEC's website. There is zero bias in that data. 

12 minutes ago, David said:

Let's also stop your LIES on costs, the costs are NOT 50% higher.

It's actually over 50% on the Blazer.

The ICE Blazer starts at 35k and the EV Blazer starts at 56k. They've already axed the FWD 1LT model (44k) 

As of RIGHT NOW, it costs the consumer more then 50% more to go from the cheapest ICE Blazer to the cheapest EV Blazer. 

13 minutes ago, David said:

Even in 2021 Tesla DID NOT really make money as it was the Automotive Regulatory Credits that saved their ass. 2022 and 2023 are the first years they are actually making money but even then the ARC's are still an important sales point especially to Stellantis and adds a noticeable profit to their bottom line.

I take it you haven't bothered to look at their financial statements. Take away the credits and they were 100% profitable in 2021 still. 

Prior to that, no. They were using those credits to stay afloat and it worked. Which, is basically what I said, "they've been profitable for the last few years."

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000095017022000796/tsla-20211231.htm#item_8_financial_statememts_supplementar

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

All these OEM's need to suck cost out of these EV's but seem clueless on how to do it.

I agree they need to do that but I disagree that they don't know how. They know they need the demand and mass production to get there. You can't get costs down until you're selling hundreds of thousands a year or more. 

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yes they can.

Especially the legacy OEMs.

They make gas powered cars. Tesla doesnt.

Tesla's vehicle prices arent profitable between 30 000 and 40 000 also.  EV sales are pointing to be stale.  Tesla wont make it to 2035...  

Tesla does not have all that money...

 

If they did have all that money and profit legit, without all the smoke and mirrors with polution credits and all that garbage, they'de slash more money off the 3 and Y to get to that 30 000 dollar threshold.   To stop the market erosion and to actually put a nail in the coffin of their competitors.  

They dont do because Tesla LOSES money at those price points.  Investors wont support Tesla losing billions again... 

 

They're making money. I'm not sure why you think they're losing money on vehicles but they've been profitable for the last few years.

Look over pages 4-6.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000162828023034847/tsla-20230930.htm#ib5ff2de9b5b0458894a3412674c85416_16

15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Compared to the Model Y?

The Mach-E is very comparable to the Model Y is EVERY metric.

The Model Y is Tesla's 5th attempt at an EV.

1. Roadster 1.0

2. Model S

3. Model X

4. Model 3 

5. Model Y

 The Mach - E is Ford's 1st attempt.

The Mach-E is quite the accomplishment and NOT how you want to present it.  

Technically Ford made an Electric Focus... because California.

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Ford breaks out their EV financials, Ford themselves say their EV's will lose $4.5 billion dollars this year.   (or $1.125 billion per quarter)

Ford has sold 46,671 EV's through Q3 at a loss of $3.375 Billion, which is actually $72,314 dollars lost per car sold.  

They're also building 2 or 3 manufacturing plants for EVs and/or battery production. They'll likely be in the red for awhile until all of that is finished and they can get production out of those. That's the cost of doing business. 

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Rescue of damaged Navigator, it got stuck, then a flood came...

 

 

I love MORR videos. I watch a ton of their stuff on my way to and from work on the bus. 

I watched this last week and man, that thing was junk when they got to it. 

On 10/20/2023 at 8:42 PM, smk4565 said:

 And the Mach-E is bad product built on an ICE platform,

Explain this. This is literally the first time I've read this. 

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

November 30th for Cybertruck!

Just in time to be 3 or 4 years late! 

Not only are they not the first electric truck, they're not the 2nd or 3rd either. 

They better come out with a banger of a product if you're going to announce first, be 3 or 4 years late and now they're the 4th in the category. Technically, 5th, if you count the GMC Hummer. 

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

and the driving experience *is* different, with a one speed trans/ linear power delivery and regenerative braking.

It is different but CVTs have been around for a long time now and that no-shift-feeling is what people like about them. There's just no engine noise to accompany the acceleration. 

And, I know there are differences and people should test out EVERY vehicle before purchasing. But that isn't unique to EVs. Test drive for awhile at a dealership. 

I'm not saying to not have EVs in rental fleets. I just don't think it is ideal for the majority of people who don't give a crap about their transportation. 

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

The charging and range are a big deal, certainly...but I care about how a car drives and the interior fit/finish, ergonomics, etc...even if it's just a potential lease appliance..

Of course everybody cares about that stuff but are there people who think they'll be THAT much different from an ICE vehicle? They think the ergonomics are going to be so vastly different because its powered by electricity as opposed to gasoline? There are people who think the fit and finish will be different because it doesn't have a gasoline engine? I know people are REALLY stupid A LOT of the time but that's tough to comprehend. 

29 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Rental would be a good way to see how they drive, and how the interior fits and controls work, though...I don't care how they charge overnight.    

I will certainly agree with that. I just don't think *most* people are worried about that stuff. It feel like more people are concerned with charging them and that whole situation. 

This discussion has been had before but I agree with @trinacriabob's interaction, I don't think rentals is a great way to get EVs into peoples' hands. 

The biggest advantage of an EV is charging overnight, at home, for very few dollars. Renting them negates all of that. 

15 hours ago, David said:

I would totally disagree with him as rental is a great way for people to explore and try out the EVs. Usually good rental experience will lead to future purchases.

Having to deal with public chargers isn't a great way to have a great experience. 

11 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Id like to show you that I can retract certain opinions that I hold.

This is regarding the issue I had with battery fires especial in instances of accidents. I said that battery fires maybe a huge problem that maybe kinda nobody wants to talk about. 

 I said that there are not enough EVs getting into accidents to actually say that there is no issue for EV battery fires. I said that battery fires could be a huge concern.

  Your assesment of this situation is correct, Id say!   You said calmly that there is no issue...  

Mercedes Benz proves that their EVs at least and their batteries,  are safe in accidents.  

 

While I don't exactly think there is a "problem", I also don't exactly think a manufacture-produced video proves much of anything. Obviously the manufacturers are working to avoid fires but this doesn't really prove that there isn't currently a problem. 

42 minutes ago, David said:

What site told you this or did you get it in email? That is very weird, I have never seen it before.

I was in Chrome and under the "Google Password Manager" then "Password Checkup" and it said this. I also had one for Yahoo, which also doesn't have anything personal of mine on it. 

I didn't notice this until now but has anybody else gotten this notification through Chrome? I mean, I know there's no personal information held on this site from me but still interesting. 

@Drew Dowdell

I don't think this will be some revolution but I do think it will help get buyers into EVs. 

10 hours ago, David said:

Very cool, the rebates become instant starting in 2024 for EV purchases of new and used vehicles plus leasing.

EV tax credit becomes instant dealership rebate in 2024: Here's how (greencarreports.com)

I didn't even know there was a credit for used EVs. That makes them even more inticing. 

I got to walk around one of the Rivian Amazon vans. I wanted to ask the lady what she thought of it but didn't think she'd want to be slowed down while just trying to work so I left her alone. 

The Prologue looks so much better than the Blazer. The flatter hood makes the proportions just look so much cleaner and sportier without having to add all sorts of fake vents like the BlazerEV.

It's also still annoying that GM couldn't engineer a frunk into their EV SUVs, and now Honda has to pay for that as well. 

I also just like they didn't name it Pilot EV, like Chevy did with the Blazer EV. Honda gave it its own name. 

6 minutes ago, David said:

@oldshurst442 @ccap41 Lets just call them Datsun!  

Thank you for posting this, great info on the engine. Interesting about the freedom to develop the electrical system. In this regard, I wonder how much of the Ultium electrical system might make it into the Cadillac racing auto since they have the freedom if I am understanding it to use their engineering knowledge to power the team to wins. 

This will favor those companies who are ahead on the EV front in applying it to Hybrid applications.

Hahaha Datsun works!

Uhhhh I'd say none of it at first, Ultium. Until they take over the power unit from Alpine(Datsun!), there won't be any Ultium in there. Once, or if, they take the power unit control in-house, then it'd be an Ultium powered unit. 

The reason, at least how I see it, is because Alpine will still making their own power unit for their own cars. They won't want one power unit they're producing to have their electrical system and then one to have a GM electrical system. That would add unnecessary complexity to the R&D of the all-new power unit and it would likely make both units worse because there is a cost cap for the teams and this would, undoubtedly, increase the spending. 

After trying to look into the cost cap regulations, the engine cost cap are different and I can't find the specific regulations regarding how the engines cost against the cap.

"

What comes under the F1 cost cap?

Any expenditure related to car – but not engines – performance is relevant for the cost cap. This includes:

• All parts on the car (from the steering wheel to the wheel nuts)
• All the elements needed to run the car
• Most of the team personnel
• Garage equipment
• Spares
• Transport costs
• Everything in between

The biggest area of focus is car development costs, with teams having a weigh up what is developed, how much is spent on each part which is manufactured and how many of the parts are needed and can be afforded without overspending.

What doesn’t come under the F1 cost cap?

There are several big-ticket things that aren’t covered by the cost cap, including:

• Driver salaries
• The wages of the three highest-paid staff members
• Travel costs
• Marketing spend
• Property and legal costs
• Entry and licence fees
• Any non-F1 or road car activities
• Parental and sick leave payments
• Employee bonuses and staff medical benefits

Engines – which are more complex because some teams make their own while others buy them – are covered by their own set of cost regulations."

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-cost-cap-what-is-it-how-it-works/10379800/

13 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

We have discussed this on the power units and we both have the same sentiment about Cadillac using Alpine engines.  We differ on what auto group to call them.  Nissan...   I wont go Nissan.  I barely want to go Renault.  Id rather use Apine.   Yeah...Alpine sounds better.   And this would be the main reason why it sucks for Cadillac to be using a power unit OTHER than their own...

But yeah.  They are IN!!!   2 years, right?  On using Alpine units.   Hopefully Cadillac and Andretti dont fudge that up and learn the ins and outs of F1 racing and when the Alpine deal is done, they DOMINATE from the get go.  Because I WILL be holding the Andretti/Cadillac team to HIGHER standards JUST because they would prefer to use  another engine builder's units...  Id be willing to cut them some slack if they used their own.  NOT this way.   Just to be clear though, if the Andretti/cadillac team loses because of driving talent rather than power unit failure, I will be more forgiving.  BUT...if after the 2 years is up and the Andretti/Cadillac cars lack in performance and reliability, I WILL call then out on it. 

Haha I just like to say Nissan because... I hate Nissan... Haha

I would wager good money that they're using Alpine as a supplier because they're so far behind on the new 2026 power units. It's 2026, by the way, when they'll enter F1. It's 2026 because there are all new power unit regulations and a lot more electrification, along with a lower money spending cap, so it's more financially feasible for new/smaller teams to compete with the Mercedes, Red Bulls, and Ferraris of the sport. 

Here's a little list of the power unit changes;

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.more-efficient-less-fuel-and-carbon-net-zero-7-things-you-need-to-know-about.ZhtzvU3cPCv8QO7jtFxQR.html

There's also more news on Audi joining F1. They'll be a power unit supplier for Sauber(who's currently running as Alfa Romeo). This will also be a 2026 change and it sounds like the same thing Ford will be doing for Red Bull Racing. 

So in 2026 we will see Ford, Cadillac, and Audi all enter F1 and I'm freakin stoked about that! 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-sauber-to-become-audi-works-f1-team-from-2026.6EMJQ2LlvshgpCXdCR9xJl.html

Oh, I also think it's really cool that Cadillac has made it a requirement to have at least one American driver. That was part of them getting allowed into F1. I assume it's to help continue their US expansion and ratings. 

@oldshurst442, They did it! Andretti got approval from the FIA for their F1 GM/Cadillac team. 

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/38548308/andretti-wins-fia-approval-bid-enter-f1-11th-team

As I've mentioned before, I'm not stoked AT ALL about them using a Nissan power unit but, if that's what's necessary to get their foot in the door, then so be it. 

26 minutes ago, David said:

Belated Happy Birthday CCAP41! I hope you had a great day.

Thanks! 

it was a good one. My uncle, aunt, and cousin were in town from LA because my cousin may be attending a university in the area and he had a shooting competition at the school. So, I got to see some family that I don't get to see too often, so that was pretty cool .