surreal1272

Doesn't do that on my Mac browser so I cannot account for any unforeseen issues. Thanks for providing the additional links @David. I would have to make out a living will before driving that one but I would die a happy man, I can promise you that!

Cough*because dealerships are necessary*cough https://qz.com/2124564/ford-gm-are-cracking-down-on-dealers-for-inflating-prices/?utm_source=YPL

Not exactly hard to outsell a Tundra right now considering that model is on the way out to make way for the new model. The 2022 model just released in December. meanwhile, the Tacoma sold over 15K. Good start for the Maverick but the article was lazy to bring up a full size outgoing pick up to the conversation. The software they used, Forscan, is pretty common in the Ford world. That is what I used when I swapped out my Sync2 for a Sync3 system in my Flex. What that guy is doing is neat but clearly a hassle as well (as documented in that article). Not having a working airbag in your steering wheel is a pretty big no no, just to gain cruise control. That's more of a Frankenstein swap lol, bound to cause problems.

Because, for the last time, I am talking about engine upgrades within a particular truck. Has zero to do with the model itself. I am showing you that within one model truck, there is a huge jump from gas power to diesel power, similar to how there is a jump with the Lightning. This jump is not unique to EVs and that is my one and only point here. Singling out EVs here ignores that very fact.

The focus is not the truck here. It’s the engine options and the price bump that goes with it. You know exactly what I’m talking about.

The class is irrelevant. Diesel itself has always commanded a certain premium without the extra package that is offered on top of the extended range Lightning. They are not any near as far off as you are implying once you stop comparing apples to oranges. And was explained to him yet again and he chose to ignore it. Again, that SMK method.

Good thing that never happened with ICE trucks. Just a $10K bump for a diesel engine, thats all. Just skip the fact that the longer range battery also comes with 137 extra horsepower and more standard equipment. Seriously, maybe stop using the SMK method and actually compare apples to apples. BTW, $9K of the $19K for an equipment group bump up. If you go with the standard range model, it is a $9K option so you are really only paying $10K for more range and more power, same as if one went from gas to diesel in your average Super Duty truck.

Corrected above in bold

You know what they about one's head and rent free living right? Guess who is clearly living inside his head, AND on his dime lol? That is all I am going to say because my past feelings on the matter still apply here. Ditch the poison.

I find first hand experience and facts more helpful than ignorance and unwarranted hysteria. https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tesla-driver-details-survived-14-132951082.html

Then you didn't look at the right numbers if you're saying that the U.S. is on par with countries like Germany. Last time I checked, 73>64 (full vaccination) making that not an apples to apples comparison. First dose doesn't mean squat.

You sure about that rate? We are nine points behind Germany at 64%, not 76%. That 76% figure is for first dose only. Germany sits at 73% full vaccination rate.

My fists are rarely clenched and I stand by my statement.

And that happens only because of extra suspension goodies and an extremely massaged chasis. On its own, BOF will not ride well at all (ver bouncy for example). Here's what I know regarding the question I asked you. The 2012 is unibody and rides way better than the 2011 BOF PF. While it sucked that they ditched the BOF platform for it, there were good reasons for it as well. Also, I should note that my pointing this put was due to Balths assertion that GM and others are doing a 180 back to BOF after years of upsell on unibody, when it is not true nor does it make a damn if it is.

Very good points but I am not just referring to the super old stuff. Let me ask you this. Which rides better? A 2011 Pathfinder or a 2012 Pathfinder?

What I am referring to is the ride difference though. Yes, it looks like a traditional BOF but it rides like unibody. Besides harping about unibodies is missing serious context. BOF rides like $h! compared to unibody and that is a fact. Great for towing and hauling but garbage for everyday ride quality when compared to unibody. That applies to ICE cars only though as the Ultium is not like the BOFs of yore. To compare the two beyond that, in order to make some ridiculous point about what was being touted with ICE cars is not an apples to apples deal.

But in this case, BOF for the EVs is not the same as old school BOF correct? My understanding is that EVs like the Hummer will be using a modified version of the BOF found in their full size pick ups but that doesn't mean that EVs like the future Equinox will be like that.

When Cadillacs still ruled the world.

And I will politely tell that I know what both of them are and I also know the shell game behind it (for example, the invoice price is not what they actually paid for it). I am also politely declining any further discussion on this since you continue to cherry pick one part of a much bigger problem I have already covered in spades here.

Did you actually read what I said? I never said that they didn’t do it ever but they do not make a damn habit out of it. Why? Because they would go out of business. I cannot make it any clearer than that. The fact is that everything you just mentioned there is part of their well known she’ll game with numbers. You think they offer vehicles at invoice out the goodness of their hearts? Sorry but again, you keep moving the bar to make up excuses for well known problems when dealing with your average dealership. Again, see my above statement. That is not the norm and you know it. FFS. I said I was done with this nonsense and here I am getting dragged into the same endless back and forth with someone who will never see the other side of the coin and thinks that dealerships are necessary in the modern world. Well now, I am officially done. Conflate all you want. Move the damn bar all you want while ignoring the other facts that run counter to your narrative (like why dealerships fight tooth and nail to prohibit direct sales in states where companies like Tesla want to business). I’m out.

It is still their lowest seller so by your GM and Ford logic, it is a failure. Thanks for playing though.

That avoidance of facts seems to have spread to others, as evidenced by the last 24 hours. Shhhh! You know we don't talk about that around here lol.

You’re exactly right about that. What is also true is that the prices would be even higher if they used the dealership model. See how that works yet?

And what dealership is this because I’ve worked at three in two different states and the only time a vehicle is sold below MSRP is when it’s a carry over year model or otherwise something that has been on the lot for more than a year? Dealerships would go out of business if they made a habit out of that and you know it. You mean like how dealership lobbies have spent years trying to block direct sales in a lot of states thus taking away the choice for potential customers? That is making them the only choice for buyers which is the opposite of how a free market economy works. It’s almost like the dealerships want to make it mandatory that you have to “choose” them. Help it make sense Balth.

In the same universe, there is exists these two scenarios with the same person regarding the same practice. See if you can spot the difference. Dealerships and market adjustments=Good because of free market capitalism and customer choice. Uber and other delivery services expanding during a pandemic and giving customers that same choice under that SAME free market=Bad That is both a double standard and hypocrisy. And I didn’t even need ten paragraphs and fifty thousand words in one post to explain it. Ain’t that some shyte?