surreal1272

Literally not a chance of that happening (for automakers). And reports widely vary on projected growth because there is still a lot of product that has to come out between now and 2030. Too many unknown variables to sound that certain. I know this. This has been in motion long before Biden so...

Saying "Like I said, perception lags" isn't really acknowledging what I am saying here but whatever, quite honestly. There is no perception lag where Toyota is concerned.

Exactly. All the effort they put into the interior design should have been dedicated to that low rent looking exterior and maybe add a frunk while you’re at it. That is not the “best or nothing”.

Taking the “comparing apples to gas powered oranges” to a whole other level I see? Face it. The EQS is a huge let down and you’ve have been pedaling endless excuses for it by pointing out the perceived (and easily debunked) flaws of everyone else. Classic deflection.

Cite an actual the year of said Camry that you think would sell for $10K. The only models I have seen (via Autotrader) that can sell for that kind of coin are the hybrid models, which sell for far more new than the regular Camrys. Not one Camry over ten years old sells for anywhere close to $10K with that kind of mileage.

And it’s sounding not so vaguely like you still are missing the point so let me say it one more time. Those sales were mentioned to illustrate the fact that it is directly connected to the perception that those buyers have about Toyota, a perception you claim (without proof) doesn’t exist or is somehow “waning”. It is really that simple. You don’t like Toyota. I get it. I don’t care for everything they do either. However, I am also not blind and can also discern (without the anti-Toyota bias you’ve shown over the years here) that millions of people perceive Toyotas as reliable and dependable. It was true thirty years ago and it’s true now and that perception has not changed for most people, whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not.

And you are wrong on that too. Outside of their full size pick up SUV offerings, they sell everything they can make and they sell more than the competition (on average) and it is precisely because of that advantage that you think doesn’t exist. Btw, you need to read what I actually said about your POS statement. That’s all I’m goi g to say because you clearly misread it.

And my statement is that they STILL have that advantage. Not sure how you can interpret that any other way. And no offense but you have implied (many times) that Toyotas are basically junk and garbage so there is that.

There are all sorts of opinions online. I can go to any number of forums related to various cars owned by various members here and can find plenty of problems. The point is that the internet is for complainers and no one compliments anything to anywhere near the same degree as which they would direct a complaint. That is a fact. The fact also remains that Toyota and Lexis routinely clean everyone's clock in just about every reliability survey. That doesn't mean that everyone else sucks but to think Toyotas are somehow piles of $h! (for whatever reason) is beyond ill-informed.

No they really haven't despite your many claims to such things. Issues? Yes. Recalls? Also yes. Does that mean their reliability is garbage? Nope. not one damn bit. Being built less than ten miles from my house, for the record. I will say this too. For all of Toyotas problems with quick changes in the market (and their stupid commitment to hydrogen), if you think they won't catch up in a hurry, then you are fooling yourself. That have the capital to get on the wagon quick. Being first to produce something doesn't mean squat in the car world anymore.

I’ve worked at three different dealerships in two states and I will respectfully disagree with you and @ccap41 on this. And you got lucky on your truck, end of story because that is not the norm on full size trucks and you know that.

That would be a fine point if it weren't for the fact that dealerships have been doing this for FAR longer than two years. The current environment has nothing to do the decades of overall greed in the form of dealership MAs. Trust me. When all this supply chain nonsense winds down, that practice will not stop.

Well you sure showed me @oldshurst442</sarcasm>. Just remember. Just because you don’t understand context (the fact that almost all of David’s complaints about Tesla have been backed with sources and facts and never been about one damn taillight as you are implying on here) and would rather cherry pick something to death doesn’t mean everyone else here has to subscribe to the same thinking. This thread was about Tesla until you made it about David. Think about it before continuing on this pointless crusade of yours.

Down voted for the sheer ignorance and bitchiness. By all means though, just take up another page over this mole hill.

Agree to disagree. Just seems like you are (yet again) making a mountain out of a mole hole, is all. Carry on.

Are you new here? Again, no offense but you’ve taken part in the s***show for years so to go after David is a bit hypocritical on your part. Again, just pure overreaction if you ask me. You said, “A burnt LED taillight is NOT valid to bitch about and start snowflaking around vowing never to buy a Tesla product....” It is when it’s one of MANY problems with them. How you don’t see that is beyond me. And I am leaving it at that.

Well then maybe that’s a “you” problem more than a David problem because you are only looking at one thing when he has discussed many problems with Tesla. Just an overblown reaction if you ask me.

According to every reliability study and survey, it is far more miss than hit. That is the point here and in no way does that indicate some kind of bias on Davids part. Well considering this is a thread about Tesla and their issues, then the criticisms are quite valid. We are also talking about the here and now so old GM doesn't have squat to do with this. Besides, there has been plenty of GM/Ford/Chrysler smack talk over the last forty years (and deservedly so) so I say "welcome to the s***show Tesla".

You do realize that he is just highlighting ONE of the many problems with Tesla right? We will skip the fact that the Model S had fire issues too. No offense but there are many, many things wrong with Teslas QC methods and standards. Any attempt to say otherwise is a bias comment itself because it ignores that very fact.

Corrected.

Again, ten years didn't seem to be a problem for you in regards to the almost TEN year old Tesla Model S. Your have touted its "success" at damn near every turn.

Missing the point. SMK is saying basically that Lucid will struggle because there are not enough dealers and no one is familiar with them. My response is that Tesla went through the same thing (a decade ago) yet they are successful today (their many flaws notwithstanding). It’s that simple and my statement has nothing to do with individual models and such. What? By your logic, GM should not have succeeded in the early 1900s because Ford was first to sell to the masses. Ford was first. GM was just another brand. Not even reading the rest of your post when it starts out with stuff like that. Just more apples to oranges nonsense.

The same thing was said about Tesla. How'd that turn out?

Nope. Not at all. The very few times I ever had to eat (like when I traveled across country), those few crumbs would get into the hard to reach places around the heat shifter. My bigger point, in case you missed it, is that a leather boot area around the shifter would have been far easier to clean. For the record, I was known as the Cookie Monster for years growing up.

You act like crumbs don't get down inside there or any other plastic ladened shifter. Newsflash. My Flex was terrible for that kind of stuff getting into the crevices around the shifter area. They do and they are even harder to clean than a simple boot area. Ive had any problem keeping mine clean. Guess it boils down to personal preference but lets not act like the other styles aren't a pain the ass to keep clean either. See my above post. Those crevices around the shifter area are not going to be fun area to get clean and free of debris. I don't even know why this is even a discussion, to be honest with you but since you brought it up then I figured it was fair game to point out your choices are also a pain in the ass to keep clean and there is simply no way that you will convince me otherwise.