turbo200

haha

yes, disappointing. Even more disappointing is the confirmation that so much that was shown on the concept model won't be making it to production, as of yet. I guess the more I look at the production interior the more I can deal with the reality that that is it, but the major feeling that those production interior photo gives me is a of a less expensive car. Visually, it isn't as stimulating and as rich, and now I can see the price tag of $25k becoming more and more appropriate. If that inteiror pictured above is representative of a $25-27k G8 V6, and the concept interior is what we get for the G8 GT, priced about $4k more, then hallelujah, GM gets it!! But a sinking feeling inside of me tells me GM still doesn't get it. Again, it's disappointing to hear GM say the wheels, paint job, and other stuff are concept only. I do hope they figured out the interior stuff needs to get to production, and I do hope the wheels they do end up offering are as good looking dynamic and original [though I doubt they'll be as original as the cool concept wheels]. The paint job is what I'll most miss, sadly.

This is a pimped out show ride. The wheels, paint job, two-tone leather stitched dash, and brakes have all been confirmed, by GM, to be just part of the show car. That seriously has to stop. GM has to start showing cars with real production bits. They have to allow these things to be options on the real car, at least, but the very best scenario would be to make this part of the G8 GT package.

well I didn't say it was masculine, just more masculine than before. And it really is a lot more masculine, and that should be applauded since they recognized a major problem with the last one which was that it looked to soft and weak. The end result is somehting far from what I would call the most feminine looking crossover out there. Then again, GM doesn't seem to have a problem with this at all.

Currently, a fully loaded Limited V6 MSRP is $37,585, according to carsdirect.com. you don't think a price increase is a possibility? you don't think it could come close to or go above $40k?

good riddance! GM needs to stop bending to the will of outsiders who think it's best to pump out more and more cars for the sake of inventory. They need to learn they are the ones in charge of the brands. And they need to learn what a brand represents. What they should be shooting for is a collection of ideas and art. Not the crap that's there now. The Rainier is a piss-poor example of what GM product thinking used to be like. Hopefully, this kind of thing will never come close to happening, and every product will have thought and thorough relation to its brand, and what the brand stands for.

xb is cooler than before with the tc treatment. highlander looks bad from this angle, and in this color; overall it's classy and strengthened but still every bit as uninspired lame and unattractive as before, so it should do well. xd is just garbage.

Well, after seeing it from more angles and in more colors, I can see where Toyota has "manned" this truck up and given it a lot more beefiness and elegance. Still, that doesn't mean it isn't uninteresting, uninspired, and artistically challenged. Even the interior seems cheap and unimagintive....not at all really befitting of a truck that could cost up to $40k and compete with lower levels of the Enclave and loaded Acadias. It should continue to be a success with the fanbase that already loved it, and that will be more than enough. They have left the door open for GM to create a good image around thier Lambdas though.

couldn't agree with you more. G8 has class; Charger is simple and cool but awkward. G8 has a lot of strength in every line, that works real well. the only thing that is really extremely disappointing is reading that GM is yet again showing a "show car". I didn't want to get in on the speculation a couple of days ago when we had the teaser shots, but now it seems GM has confirmed through thier own press release that this is only 90% there. And guess what, we'll probably never see a gnarly paint job like this on a GM car until yet another 5-10 years. Prove me wrong, GM! Surprise us and go the extra mile with everything! Offer the 6 spd on the V6, offer the suspension bits from the V8 on the V6, make everything seen here on this show car a REALITY, including those great wheels. I can't say enough for how right I expect this car to come out, with whatever trimmings and calibrations they decide to go with; it's that great of a car. That still doesn't mean GM should just settle for what they got, they need to give it all they got, go the extra mile to make this a truly amazing and unprecedented car that will truly make the magazines, pundits, and analysts believe GM gets it.

I'm sorry it was construed in that way. This was not a personal attack, more of a "I couldn't completely disagree with you more". I wanted to give a completely divergent viewpoint, so that it was just out there. So that the reaction would be lessened to your opinion. You gave a very strong opinion. And to hold some weight, I tried injecting what I thought was strong about the design, and especially in comparison to what was there before. I still don't beleive you are right. But we can each have out own opinion, and feel free to disagree with one another. I thought that was point of discussion and discourse? Feelings should not go into it. I just couldn't disagree with you more, especially what you've said above.

this is nonsensical. The engine is fine....these are opinions that ultimately won't hold water. The GTO had valid complaints surrounding it; yes, people were excited a RWD coupe beside the Vette was coming from GM, and that made a lot of people optomistic. GTO had no visible competitors, and no precedent before it, this car has both, and it is a success so far.

you don't know what you're talking about. this athletic design has more sport, more aggression, more tension, more stealth, and mroe good design sense than any Pontiac in decades. Boring is the GP that looks geriatric with its big old butt and nasty overdone wedge shape. This is a Pontiac that will help thier image.

As it's own car, this is a beautiful Pontiac. It's amazing that the additions Pontiac made actually made the car more appealing, instead of less appealing which is usually the case, and was with the GTO, imo. I love that the headlights complete the look that is fairly reminiscent of a last gen 7-series, and I think that's great. The attention to sheetmetal really gives this car the presence of a 30k car, and I love that the front end really does flow with the the rest of the car, adds more dimmension to the design, and doesn't go overboard. And that rear wing is actually a huge improvement! Nice! That interior of course is fantastic, and Pontiac will now have definitely one of the best sedans in its price category, especially if they can get under 30k with a 6 cylinder version. What would kill is if the V6 had these mods, or similarly good looking mods and wheels. I could complain that Pontiac didn't go in a different direction, but that would be missing the relevance of the statement of releasing this car. It's so important and so great that Pontiac gets a RWD Zeta, and is the first out the gate. I hope for their sake, the marketing is there, the pricing and content are super competitive, and that they easily surpass the 50k mark, all retail. That would fantastic, and way more than the predecessor Bonneville could have ever dreamed of. Well, this is way more car than Bonneville ever was. EDIT: The paint job is amazing. The rear, although derivative, looks great.

Pontiac needs a car like this stat. The new Pontiac performance for the future, a well rounded lineup of performance cars. I love that interior, exterior is great too. There's a big market for this kind of car, with the right street cred and performance Pontiac could sell a lot. Maybe no more than 30-40k/yr, but it'd still be cool to replace the G5 with something young kids actually like.

I agree, the European controls are great, and better than the alternative at GMNA. I can't say enough for how much I love this car and the interior especially, if the quality holds up this interior will be at the top of its class for me.

they need to advertise the hell out of the Saturn lineup. something akin to mazda lineup commercials would be great, something to show these are refined sporty cars with great design.... EDIT: if ever there was a need for the marketing overbudgeting that GM has been notorious for, it is for Saturn. stop the cobalt and Impala ads, and segway that money into Saturn.

that's what I thought :AH-HA_wink: I think they are both classy. like fine wine, they seem to age very nicely

on a more positive note...I am starting to see Silverados blinged up. I think they look great, the few that I've seen have some tasteful but big mods, wheels, zenons, darkened tails.....they look great, and I know it will catch on. Last gen Avys and Silvys were favorites for that kind of treatment, and it seems like the new Silvy is poised for that treatment. I'm glad to see that the changes really do favor the Silverado's design, and the truck is definitely growing on me.

that's not keifer sutherland.

you wouldn't hit mary hart or diane sawyer? those are two I figured you'd be all over. they're "nice" looking as far as older women go.....right?

Where I live, the only presence Buick has is with Lacrosse rentals. When I say presence, I mean being able to see these cars on a consistent basis. Pontiac's only consistent presence is the G6, again many are rentals; while Solstice and GTO are a close second, not a daily basis yet but weekly basis is about average, Vibe and Torrent follow them; GP is visible as a rental, trust me I check for the barcodes all the time. Caddy has a very consistent daily visibility with the CTS and Escalades are like shopping carts at the mall; STS is next with a pretty average visibility, compared to the 5-series and E-class, which, like the Escalade, seem to be as popular as underwear here; DTS is popular as a rental; SRX is very visible. Chevy has the Impala rentals on the car side, nothing else on the car side except MC rentals; on the truck side GM is huge. Thanks to the GMT900s GM dealerships in SoCal are still in business. It speaks volumes when on the radio every ad you hear is for the biggest Honda dealer, all the Toyota dealers, MB lease specials, BMW certified used....etc etc. I hardly ever hear ads for GM dealers. As for the first part of your post, that is exactly what I was talking about. GM hasn't been proactive enough with the success they stumbled upon with Escalade and CTS. They haven't built enough on what those cars meant, and why the public responded to those. They should have started reacting long ago with all the other car brands, instead they teased us with great concepts, while the other automakers caught on to the formula, and are now getting ready to remake thier brands/image or have already done so.

I have to agree completely with this. You can't get by with making cars nobody in the market cares about, and expect to have some kind of good legacy. This is a hole that GM has dug itself in. And unfortunately, as time has gone by, people keep forgetting more and caring less. So, GM has had windows of opportunity, a flexible Kappa platform comes to mind, and wasted them. Unremarkable styling and an antiquated image are the culprits here--and how do you turn around a bad image, good cars, lots of 'em, that make you stop and stare, and be consistent damnit. I believe, even now, Cadillac is barely being served the ingredients it needs to fully prosper, if this was Nissan, most of the whole lineup would have been fleshed out by now. Yes, CTS will keep it alive, but Cadillac is a profit diamond, they should have fleshed out the lineup by now with great looking coupes, convertibles, a sporty and attractive new crossover, and better looking sedans, aside from CTS.

I was just saying the Commodore SS as an entity itself is a good car that competes well with the 5-series. Pontiac, with good marketing, may be able to commit 500 of the most open-minded BMW buyers in the first year.

my point with the comparison was to say the car itself competes well with a 5-series, and will compete will, but as a Pontiac there are different ideas and perspectives it will have to live up to. Because it's a Pontiac, it will be jugded differently, and in many cases, overlooked completely. Like I said in another post, you can't go without cars that are perceived as excellent and relevant and desirable for so long, and not expect some kind of retribution for it. OK, CTS is on my list of favorite moderately priced luxury/performance sedans... "Cheap" was in reference to even more expensive cars that I like; I wasn't even considering the sub-luxury cars when I drew that up in my mind.

PR, gotta love it. I agree, it's ghey. It's the image game.