turbo200

well, we're pretty much completely in agreement and you proved my point. Toyota does not have to entice, their name simply entices. chevrolet simply cannot claim anywhere near that position, thus it cannot afford to sell a product as bland as corolla, as proven by sales numbers of cobalt versus corolla. corolla as you stated is a great all around car with great gas mileage and is a very competent family car...that's why it sells, so we're in agreement. i completely agree mileage needs to improve at GM, especially in 4 cylinder models, where it matters most.The quality comment is reputation, but also fact. I have yet to see proof regarding durability of parts...do GM parts and suspensions and engines hold up as well over time? I think this has yet to be proven, from what I've read or seen. Maybe I'm missing something. But this is a major chink in the quality argument for GM. I believe GM makes great quality vehicles, that are very reliable. But are they durable?

new Liberty interior=strike out new Liberty exterior=solid triple. it's a good look on a small truck. the commander couldn't pull this off because the headlights have to be annoyingly large on such a big truck [since they went with the big headlight look], and they look frumpy on the big truck, again due to thier size, even though it's not a bad look; also commander proportions suck, whereas these are great, and the rear was really badly done on commander, not here. It's a nice little classic that should work well in this category. In this category, that stands out.

I can see the look appealing to people who like Toyota's "refined" styling, but it's not pretty or manly, which is what propels big lux SUVs. The interior has great quality and color choice, but it's not better looking or resolved than Esclade's which is a big plus in GM's book.

are we talking Mondeo=new Taurusand C1 Focus= NG Focus?

that won't help unless the product can actually appeal to that target market. the only demo in CA that isn't choosing the imports are choosing Ford Fusion....because of effective marketing coupled with a stylish appealing car. Malibu may have great quality, but it's not the car to choose to budget millions of advertising dollars. Aura gets publicized a lot here....and it seems to be working. But the bottom line is GM has to figure out what it has been doing wrong for so many years that it cannot appeal to the cities. The big cities are the trendiest, most affluent, and most image-conscious. When looking at GM's lineup, hardly anyhthing they have, except the Escalade and the rest of the trucks have managed to hit the trend when it's going. In SoCal, Honda and toyota are legends. But when you look at the Civic and Mazda3, for example, or the Camry, for example, it's hard to not see how effectively those cars hit the target markets. So not only are Honda/Toyo credited with building superbly engineered cars...but they're also making DESIRABLE cars! The Cobalt design is bland...it's a solid car with just a couple functionality problems, but the major problem it has is that's not an enticing product. Chevy, GM et al have to come up with seriously enticing cars that will get people to WANT to give them a chance. This needs to happen sooner than later before it becomes too late, and GM is totally irrellevant.

I've driven these...I can't say the powertrain was the part I disliked. The super vague steering and jouncy uncontrolled ride were worse than an Explorer from last century that used to be in the family. Was it the model I tested? I don't think so...it was fairly well loaded and did not have an offroad package that would penalize the driving dynamics. It jsut didn't drive well at all. The ergonomics and relation of the driver to the dash and steering wheel were typical GM....in short the most uncomfortable, bench type driving situation. The engine was also uninvigorating but I didn't find it underwhelming. The couple years older Nissan Frontier I tested right after felt much more solid, secure, and reassuring to drive. Why does GM insist on building cars directly designed for the big roads of the Midwest?

they all look terrific. I love the tough truck miniute stance of the Trax....for a woman it'd be a great car. The surfacing on the Groove is excellent. What would be the con of making all three of them? And is this concept debut far far away from production, or are we looking at maybe one year wait? OR has GM still not learned the waiting game lesson? I am loving the proliferation of Camaro interior bits/materials. The materials used in the Beat are phenomonal. I would like to see at least one of these cars, maybe the Groove since it'll be the manliest, with a performance package and with a great interior. These are winners for Chevy, especially if they are really close in size to the Scion Xa. Heck, I would love it if these were the replacements for Aveo. Build them all.

I think it's a big success. They hit a market that is completely untouched. The interior is fabulous and well executed; not a rare thing for Ford, but this one seems to have detailing and quality that previous efforts have lacked. The exterior is what will count here; it's pretty great, though I don't like that I feel that it's lost character and charm since the concept. It seems to have been Fusion-ized a little too much.

Saturn needs more dealers. Aura is becoming a dime a dozen here already; I'm surprised the sales are what they are given the success here in LA. That said, the gradual increase they are experiencing is still to be expected, as we are only in what, the fifth month, of it's on sale date? or less? or a little more? Anyways, it's still early, and will still see increases. In a year we will be seeing a pace of 100k-150k year; with subsequent increases the following years. Outlook needs heavier advertising. It's the most impressive looking Lambda so far, and it rarely gets advertising. i know the print stuff is everywhere; but those people already know about the Outlook, and they're helping to boost the sales/buzz already. We need the general public to notice there is a new attractive ute out there.

wooooooooowwww! unbelieveable and unprecedented. I've been talking a lot about how the imports know how to hit thier market correctly; these cars are undeniably hitting thier intended market square on the head. I can not find one detail on any of these cars I don't love. Looking at them, if sold as is, with all the details, I can see them all being huge successes, even at 16k, especially the Trax. The Groove is also incredible looking; I love how each car picks up on Chevy design cues used in concepts, in the HHR and even Uplander!, and takes it all to new heights. If GM is trying to figure out which design theme to go with on thier upcoming cars, or even just this subcompact line of cars; they need to stop! and Build them ALL! They all look fantastic! I love that GM has stepped up to plated and offered something that is clearly efficient, clearly aimed at urban markets instead of dumb fat overwrought sedans all the time. Thank God! I love the new faces. The Groove face is sexy as hell; the Trax face is undeniably cute, appealing, upmarket, and trendy; the Beat is straight aggression, straight detail, and very very sexy. Good job GM! Now let me let one out of the old "complaint bag". Get a move on it! Get them here now.

the interior hurt it. as i've tried to outline before, though, it was the styling that didn't hit the heart of the market. it isn't mainstream styling; i think it's pretty attractive, and quite a few people seem to think so as evidenced by modded SRXs running around LA. It's pretty popular here. But look at the LR3, for example, it's similarly priced, Land Rover has a horrible reputation for reliability, and clearly objectively speaking it's a much worse car than the SRX, but the baby RR styling has set it apart from the masses, and I couldn't get a LR3 intender to even consider the SRX, it's way too "different". and it's doing almost as well as the SRX, with a much more limited dealer base, and thus market base. People like making the right statements, and this is even more important in the highly discerning crowd of the luxury market, I believe. I guess for many people, a wagon styled like the SRX is too feminine for some, too boxy for others, and too unrefined still for others [in the looks dept.]. If Sigma can go a little wider, SRX replacement would be cool. Even without that, I agree with the above, GM needs to seriously reconsider leaving the large x-over segment at Caddy. Though if something were to come off of Zeta that would be pretty cool. No Lambda! Unless you make it light enough, performance-oriented enough, and way way distinct. I'm also getting the feeling GM is going to consolidate everything to Zeta eventually...

DI 3.6 is standard now. that's a major improvement, over an already competent standard engine last year. Still, the major sufferings of this vehicle have nothing to do with performance, and more to do with less tangible things like image and quality.

No, I don't think it has gotten old either. It's still fresh, but the contenders on the market seem to all have copied the ideas or had the same ideas in mind. I think with that issue of people feeling like they've gotten used to seeing something a lot, while not actually having real life impressions, opinions can often be exaggerated or slightly flawed. I mean, most people here haven't seen the car on the road, moving, where all angles and lines, and colors can be appreciated. I still think the Enclave when I see it in person will impress me just as much as the Outlook and Acadia have, which is a good thing. Silverado has also grown on me a lot, even though I never disliked it, but seeing it's chunky good looking face on the road more often has converted me. I always thought the Edge was a good looking SUV, now that I've seen a few on the road in different colors and got to admire the stance and height relative to other vehicles, it's become even better looking to me. But those commercials are killing it for me.

this is the only interesting debut at NY so far. they look really well executed. now which platform is this, and when can we start talking production?

it's natural for people to grow and as we experience more art and design, our opinions mature and that is reflected here. people are only responding to what is on the market now versus what was on the market when buick first debuted the enclave. this is the danger with showing cars so long before introl; any design ages over time, and people get used to it. when enclave first debuted there was literally almost nothing on the road like it. now suvs with that rear end really are a dime and a dozen [or however that expression goes]; and they're on the road which is where we get to see them everday. when enclave hits the road is when the real reaction to the design will come forth, and I can guarantee you it'll be a mostly positive reaction. i'd be more worried about the trim choices GM goes with, and specifically the wheels that are such a make or break feature for car design. as for the comparison to the hyundai; well you went into a lot of detail to prove something that is the truth and doesn't need as much as you said to prove ti; we all know there are plenty of SUVs that look like the enclave from the rear now, and the hyundai is just one, unflattering, comparison. the first thing i thought of was audi q7, and then i thought of all the buicky things that are there. I happen to think the dead on rear shot is plenty refined and muscley looking; and it's a million times more detailed, sophisticated and cleaner than the hyundai which looks like the economy car it is. I think GM struck a nice balance with using Buick cues and using something new in the rear; it's the sides and front that I'm not so sure about anymore. But the reaction will be strong, because it is a strong statement, and elegant from a brand that previously lived nowhere close to those descriptives, and because of that there will be enthusiasm.

very cool in and out

that's exactly it. it's a hatchback, the cheapest MB and seen as a car for someone who wants the MB style name and "quality" but can deal with the small size and average performance. it doesn't sell in enough quantity nor is it an important segment, like say large sedan, to matter. The DTS is a big car with a big floaty image that isn't all that expensive or expressive looking; it's not a revelation on the inside, in fact it's cheaper looking and feeling than a Lexus IS costing 35k; it doesn't have the cool appeal the European cars ooze; more than anything it's viewed as a cruising vehicle. It definitely detracts from where Cadillac is trying to go.

from the article at autoblog, the idea sounds exciting, a truly large and substantial sedan to compete with the S-class with some innovative gorgeous Cadillac style and all the technology and features needed to compete with those kinds of cars. I don't even care if it's based on Zeta, as long as that platform allows for some truly great dynamics to rival the best in class, or beat them. I still argue that Cadillac needs to figure out what to do about an entry level car, because the CTS is too large to truly compete with the 3-series, C-class, IS350, A4, etc. An intermediary car above the CTS but below the S-class competitor in the position of the current STS/DTS would also be a requirement. A 4 car luxury lineup works for Lexus, very well, it can work for Caddy too.

urban markets in San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago etc are real world markets where 4 cyl engines like those in the Civic and Corolla are successful thanks to their great efficiency in city driving, which for those of us who live in these markets is real world driving.The Corolla is a huge success story all unto itself, despite what many on this site deride as sluggish performance, its roominess, compact exterior size, decent quality interior trim, low price, legendary reliability, and isolated/comfortable ride/handling are a product success story GM and the rest of the Americans fail to grasp. As everyday transportation, the only real thing it lacks is a little more potency [see Civic] and more emotional appeal [see Civic]. The lack of a real high mileage engine in the Crapeo [to take a cue from the derisions on this site of Japanese cars] and a stand out design do no justice to the Chevy brand. Rename Aveo the Nova [one of the only instances I would recommend a name change since Aveo just sounds cheap, anonymous, and feminine] give it a great wrapper, keep the interior high quality, and give it a good powertrain combo.

the entry worth salivating most over is the concept car obviously, but seven other intros sure sounds worth getting excited over.

The Chinese had the template for the existing Lacrosse, and they were given approval to improve on the design. They weren't given a clean sheet, so what you see from the Chinese LAX is already a compromised car, especially because it has to contend with GM's parts bin legacy and the W-body proportions. It's a good looking car, a lot more contemporary than the 1980's car we have and the interior is a lot better done too.

i didn't read everything here, BUT I read the first lines of what Flint had to say, about GM's promises, and really it's more of what just needs to be said. GM has made all kinds of promises and so so many times never delivered: like us Flint is waiting for that big turnaround, only in his more ancient existence he has been waiting far longer than I. This just sounds like medicine GM needs: straight talk express.

i think i know which interior that is, and I would say that description is very apt. but you'd be sacrificing gas efficiency, resale, and many would say durability and reliability, along with performance. That Honda powertrain is impressive;Also the roominess of it is fantastic. my point is, like you were saying, it's a compelling purchase, to say the least.

100+k Caddys sounds ridicdulous when they can't even figure out the sub 100k lineups. GM has been missing opportunities to finally have a complete, world-class lineup that resounds with the public in the form of Caddy. It's ludicrous that they finally have two great release [CTS and Escalade] and that is all we have yet again. Stupid business.

yes! this sounds great. mid engine vette is all i'm craving. who cares which is faster, as long as the more expensive cien is understandly at least as quick as the vette. this is all about the new world, and two cool ass amazing cars can co-exist in the same lineup. just make sure to make a vert version of the cien as well as the vette. i like your idea for price too, right around the R8 [i think right?]; well in the thick of a lot of hyper perofrmance cars, and an incredible alternative to XK8. something to wake the dormant image of Caddy these days.A Kappa 2+2 roadster in the vein of SC430 for Caddy and Buick sounds like a good proposition too. Kappa two seater for Caddy with real roadster driving also makes sense in the 40k market.