turbo200

the overall look could be described as upscale, but its marred by details that look inexpensive. the quality is, to paraphrase Simon Cowell, rubbish. that armrest everybody goes on and on about, well let's just say there is a reason for that.

the G8 priced under $30k sounds like it would be ludicrous, and a loss-leading venture. As much as it would be great to see it happen, I doubt there will even be a V6 version. Right about 32k, though, this car would be an overwhelming bargain.

isn't everyone a little too focused on the style of this car being that it doesn't represent anything more than a stopgap? Clearly, Pontiac isn't going anywhere with the current look, and a new look is being developed, be it Sosltice-derived [Please God, no] or something else. So, why are we all bashing Pontiac for a stopgap car that they are lucky to be getting. I say take what you can get. If they manage to make a good looking car, this will go on my list along with the next CTS as my favorite cheap sedans, and that's a big accomplishment. If the car is a decent success maybe we can get a Zeta II G8 with a real name [Gran Prix!] and a real look [full length grille!].

at $35k, the Commodore SS with a 350hp V8 would be an absolute bargain, being that it competes well with the 5-series. Will it sell well at that price? That's another story. That would be up to marketing, and it would take a hell of a lot of work to convince the american buying public they should consider a 35k Pontiac sedan. There's no precedent there. Pontiac is the maker of rental cars, and have one genuine hit in the past five years: Solstice. Five years is a long time to go without cars that are perceived as relevant.

better, much better. but like you said, they need to go further, much further in this extreme they are going in now. The outside techy look must match the inside. Do that, and I'll stop thinking of this car as one of the most useless on the market.

ergonomics, functionality, comfort, ride/handling dynamics, power, classic looks, most importantly: the right size: in it's category no other SUVs had the right size like Tahoe and Suburban did. The pickups had more to do with track record, loyalty, performance, ergonomics, comfort, reliability...

I don't check Ford's sales usually, everytime I do I'm reminded of how terrible they are doing. From the first lines in the press release, it is easy to see what message they are getting across going forward--in it for the long haul even if it means sacrificing our position now. Edge seems to be doing well, but at what cost? Explorer went from an already paltry 12k to 8k, compare that to the glory days of 30k+ units/monthly...

fit is constrained by capacity, dealers are selling everyone they can get.

Civic is losing pressure because the price is turning buyers off. Corolla in its final year of production [or are we still two years away now that Toyota got scared of the Civic, toyoguy?] is selling with terrific incentives and a much lower base price. We're talking about comparing a Corolla that can be had for $14k versus a base Civic going no lower than 17k, and that's already $800 back of invoice, a killer deal. I guess Honda's bargain to move upscale so far has proved halfway successful--Cr-v at almost two grand pricier sticker is doing gangbusters, just the result of a quality product with good room as an alternative to midsize SUVs, a still burgeoning class, the kind that don't guzzle gas, ahem Explorer. Civic is still doing well, obviously, and I don't think we've heard the last of it as far as increases go, but buyers just aren't seeing the value in it. I do, it's an amazing car, drives better than most under $30k cars, but you know, it's a Civic, why is it so much money, it used to be $13k, or so the line goes from the dazed consumer. Accord--they are going pretty far back on the car, but no factory incentives aside from dealer cash [which can be passed on obviously] and leases. EDIT: about the consumer mentality and Honda's brave move forward into more passionate driving land---buyers are still looking at Civic as basic economical transport---the reality is trimmings, handling/ride quality, efficiency/performance are up there with lower end luxury sedans in terms of the overall package. Corolla is just that--economical reliable everyday transport, those who choose the Civic do so because they understand it is a premium package. Drove the Camry CE back to back to Civic EX, Civic trumps it in every category except for room and trunk space, but Civic is really all a small family needs anyway, and they get the benefit of better gas mileage.

you know, I see what you're saying, ....buuuut I'm gonna have to say a big no. The Gran Prix just wasn't that cohesive image of what you're saying. Too many base models and not enough GTPs and GXPs running around....too long of a body, that W-body look says I am stuck in another century...plus the overall look is fat overweight heavy and unsporty especially in base models

are you raving about 149 extra units? you know that's normal market fluctuations, right? Is this supposed to be like mud in my face, or evidence to prove you right? 149 extra units?

with about 500 dealers nationwide, a core base of customers have been propping up Saturn in the past--Ion and Vue buyers, along with fleet sales of both. Those that were looking for cheap transportation with a good record and friendly service-- a $14k car with smiles, no pressure, and a good track record---in essence a total chick car for the girl who is too afraid to try on that new shade of lip gloss everyone raves about [not every Saturn buyer, but you get my point]. Saturn is not a brand people looked at seriously--it was almost like a boutique car, for different people; buyers of it knew they made a reliable product, but most in the marketplace ignored it. Now all of a sudden they have serious mainstream cars. This is a dramatic shift. The look alone is drastic, they went from being space pod-ish to total sleek packages. In order to be viewed as a full-line brand, they're gonna need time, patience, money, and support from the dealers, along with the key good product that catches attention. I drove by the biggest Saturn dealer in the SF Valley yesterday and they had one Outlook surrounded by 4 Auras. This is the new face of Saturn, and quite simply, no one was expecting that. I think the Astra 3-door will bring in a lot of window shoppers, as well the Sky is probably already doing. Aura and Outlook simply need more exposure and time. They are the practical buys---shopped amongst numerous competitors, researched to death, and validated by tough standards. The Sky is the impulse buy. I think what would help tremendously, well what will help tremendously is the Astra, a great looking economy car, that also doubles as a sports car in 3 door hatch mode. I would love it if GM put a mandate on just producing the 3 door hatch Astra with the GTC wheels first for America---it's going to be limited production anyways so why not bring the best one over first---catch the attention of people with that car, and Saturn will continue riding the wave they are only beginning to see. EDIT: Though I do agree the interior needs to improve, that's not the reason for the poor sales. Poor interior and all, the Aura is most certainly not an also ran in its category.

I like it...a lot. The look wears ten times better on the smaller, affordable truck. The proportions help, but also this minimalist blocky look works on a cheap truck. Memo to Jeep brand imaging guys: techno exec lux sports utility costing $50k cannot function on the same utalitarian look a 25k work playtoy truck can work on.

the color is awesome, don't think I've seen anything like it on a GM since the GXP concepts from the early 2000s. I would love to see it on CTS and other GMs---in general I'd like to see richer colors on GM models.

award for best employment of logic and reasoning goes to you. fit is a wonderful car that kills all the competition in its class, much more functional efficient and performance-minded than Versa, and better in all ways than Aveo except price. The handling of the Fit is like a race car--it needs to driven to be appreciated.300 is an excellent car for the reasons you posted.

The new logo looks great, silver, and maybe a little changes. redesigning the logo.....comes at the right time, the current one is tired and wouldn't look great on the new car, it just looks like it needed to be brought into the new century. and it's greatly symbolic to have it on the new G8. I'm not sure how the look of this car is going to turn out, but I like what Ted said, it has potential. I know a lot of us are waiting with baited breath, but I think it's time to take a look at the greater scope of things.....it is incredible and so overdue that Pontiac is getting this great car that symbolizes what Pontiac should stand for, stealth, tension/agression, unrivaled performance..., incredible that GM is even releasing a car of this caliber here in America, which when it comes out will literally be one of the best sedans every produced by GM....., incredible that Pontiac and GM were both written off for dead by so many news stories, here is your redemption, here is your time to give a big F U to the journalists and public at large that believed GM could not do it...with every new popular design car that GM releases to the public, they have a new shot at fame. That's what we all fought for for so many years in the early part of this decade; all the bitching paid off, and it's finally coming to fruition. As they said, 2007 and 2008 will be the year of the car for GM. Just imagining the Camaro driving around town, looking all futuristic, tough and loud, with its big wheels and size-defying Hot Wheels look...it's going to do something tremendous for GM, make them cool again, give them life again. I was thinking about this because of the story about GM confirming this car and making such a big fuss about it. BRAVO! This car deserves all they hype you can throw on it! For GM to show it to the public now, maybe 9 months before its arrival [hopefully sooner], and just surprise the public, BRAVO! For them to choose that beautiful dark gray color, along with the right set of wheels, BRAVO! BRAVO, for making a big deal out of this. GM's lineup is fleshing out, they need to do a commercial soon, once the Camaro is a few months out, linking all their new cars together, but starting with individual cinemtography of each car setting the paces, showing thier unique character, with high adrenaline angles, shooting, and driving. Shoot the commercials in the same style so that all the cars are clearly linked, do one for G8, for Camaro, CTS, Malibu, Aura, Astra. Focus on CARS, don't truck it up, and muddy the image of what these cars represent. A whole new thinking at GM.

damn i want that car. if i had spare money around I'd fly over there and drive it myself. the catera, as long as its reliable, a Sport, and has around 70k mileage, is a true sports sedan/cruiser bargain, imo. This conversion makes it look even better. coupled with a great sound system and you have an excellent and cheap car for cruising the city.

I'll be the next one to call you out but the Camry has second rate quality compared to Accord. Fit, finish, quality and consistency are all much better in Accord. Toyota has been disappointing me as of late, with top of the lines Siennas incorporating switches GM could use, and be ridiculed for it. I thought it was just the older cars, but the Camry definitely lags behind the best, being Accord and Passat/Jetta. About interior quality....we all have higher standards here than most of the general buying public, but there are increasingly a hihger percentage of customers that become more demanding and discerning with more exposure. still, to most of the general public, yes an interior like the Camry has is probably fine. FJ is another story, and with that car its more about settling with the interior because of the exterior appeal, which is not a good thing for the company in my mind. Subjectively speaking though, the Camry's interior design is kinda childish, and objectively speaking the quality is behind, though I think it's on par with Aura or a little better than aura. I did love the quality of the cloth covering the seats and the comfort of the seats was phenomonal.

A new platform going into the next decade is an absolute necessity, along with a better image for the car. It's too dowdy and pimp-mobile looking right now; even though both those things work in its favor and the proportions work on it.....going into the next decade it will need to change. Something that still evokes the same feelings, but thoroughly modern; right now this car can barely justify its price tag as the same basic car is underneath the Lucerne, and its competitors have all left it behind, now think of it five years down the line? it'll be the same situation as the current impala; build it on Zeta and feature modern driving dynamics [read: not stiff, but comfortable and controlled like an S-class or the Lexus GS/LS with good direct steering] as well as an all-new design that wasn't so dependent on length, add a fully shocking and beautiful interior, tons of luxo items, an incredible sound system and maybe some cruiser features not found on other cars, rear seat DVD, rear seat massager, tri zone climate control, reclining rear seats, that would be sweet. This argument is moot though, G-body will die, and according to people on this board, GM will build DTS on Zeta. [EDIT: I know you stated you didn't have a preference for RWD or FWD, I just found out, but I wanted to steer the conversation back in a more productive zone; DTS has to be RWD, and has to be Zeta, only because GM doesn't have another viable platform unless you make it Sigma which would just be STS.]

the camry had a whole lot more optional equipment than aura, when optioned similarly, the difference is more like $2000, according to the article. still substantial, don't get me wrong, i just wanted to clarify this. I'm glad GM won with the aura, I do think it's a fantastic car; hopefully more results like this come out and aura will build more buzz.

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I believe a RWD DTS with an emphasis on comfort and luxury, but with a controlled ride and direct steering and overall proportions and size to mimic the Commodore is exactly what the doctor prescribed for a 38-49k ES alternative. A nice comfy big Caddy like all the old schoolers want wouldn't be a bad idea. I still think the CTS is good for much of what that fan base wants, but if they want a larger rear seat and more trunk space, then let em have it. If they want something more classically dynamic, smooth and soft but controlled, then a Zeta DTS will be perfect for them. I do beleive it will be overlapping plenty of other cars like the Lucerne and possibly Impala at the higher end, but whatever I guess. Everyone argues Cadillac must retain the DTS buyers, how many of those [real retail buyers] are there left anyways? And did we decide the new CTS wouldn't be able to absorb those buyers? Anyways, with the smaller B-series car, a CTS in the middle, and the STS as the [eventual] S-class competitor-range topper, DTS seems like a great fit in between the last two. Of course the new DTS would continue with Cadillac polarizing design theme in and out [is it really polarizing anymore? no? maybe they need to try that again], and should have a fully modern interior with all the best class and luxury. I smell a hit....

I think I want to get a Cadillac Catera for kicking around, for a second car. Maybe, or maybe I just want to get rid of my car altogether and get an automatic car, stick in this city, in the primarily city driving I do, sucks!

Jeep needs to be Jeep. They need to continue to look at unique genuine ways at buidling Jeep like the extended 4-door Wrangler, that LOOKS like a Jeep, acts like a JEEP, and is utalitarian in every respect. Compass is an appalling way to try and build the brand. GC needs to be updated majorly, it needs to drive a lot more securely to compete with crossovers, but it also needs a premium interior to reflect the premium price, and an update on the successful skin.

If Jeep wanted to build an upmarket SUV, it needed to FIRST have a class worthy bold and futuristic exterior design, something that screamed Jeep but also screamed expensive and look at me. It next needed to have a much better interior design and quality of materials done. Third, it needed to probably be on the Ram platform or Durango platform instead of the extended GC platform. Jeep should look to MB for advice on how to make and market a successful large premium SUV.