FUTURE_OF_GM

You'd better pray that they continue to see that increase if they want to keep buying share. $8000 incentives in the first year will multiply dramatically by the end of the product cycle. Umm. 30 years ago would've been 1977. And had I been alive and witnessed first hand the $h! that Detroit was trying to pass off as good product, I would've predicted it with ease. I never did take it with a grain or salt... In fact; I'm the one predicting gloom and doom for Detroit on the back of the Turdra. LOL... You're kidding right?!?! After listening to you talk out the other end of your body about how the Malibu sucks when you haven't even seen one. And then realizing that this is a GM board that you consistently trash GM on. I'd talk about bias! But then again, that is the accepted practice among virtually everyone now; talk $h! about Detroit, but god forbid anyone expose BAD NEWS about the almighty Toyota or Japan. What's funny is that you people almost have me convinced that you HONESTLY can't see past the end of your noses far enough to realize your own bias... It's a sad day indeed, I mean, you bet your ass I'm biased, but at least I'm smart enough to realize it and admit it.

Oh no... There you go breaking out that bad ass SoCal trendiness on us again.

They're SERIOUSLY that far away from outselling such an outdated truck?!?! That's enough of a clue right there to tell you that something is amiss with the Turdra.

Bull$h!. I saw another ad today about the $5000 factory rebate on the SR5 with the sport package. GM also has more than one plant cranking out the Silverado and Sierra. And this is supposed to be news given the way the market is and has been going for the past 2-3 years? Gas is at record levels, the housing market sucks and driving a truck seems to have acquired more of a stigma than some would like. Umm... Ramp up? And I'm sure the correlation with Tundra incentives shows the same upward trend. LOL, probably not, because they're too ignorant to pull their heads out of their asses anyway. Did I post any of that?!?! Nope. Standing outside of the plant doesn't count.... (Yeah, I know it's in San Antonio--Take it for how I mean it to be said) Which is basically IMPOSSIBLE since Toyota can't match the volume of GM trucks; but whatever. Anyway; that was a big waste of time.... So...

Yeah, but here's the kicker: All that has to happen is for the media and import buyers to start believing that Toyota trucks are better than domestic trucks, they don't REALLY have to be better.This same thing has happened in minivans, SUVs and a large part of the car market. As happy as I am to see GM doing well and as competitive as the new products are, I still believe Detroit will lose the market and very bad thing lie ahead for our industry. What pisses me off the most is that Detroit has now BECOME a victum of both our society and the pop culture that runs it. They've passed the point of self motivated rescue; either the public gets it or the public doesn't. I'm willing to bet that the media will help the public 'not get it' as much as possible. The wrting is already on the wall with the countless Toyota reliability cover ups and the constant "good, but not good enough" ever-so-romantic reviews of GM product that frankly, kicks the competitions ass. That reflects the media: they rate Korean higher than domestic and it's becoming that way everywhere... The same will happen with Chinese offerings, better or not, they will be BILLED as better.

Where was that mantra when Detroit was throwing out cash? Just another excuse to fudge what's really happening; or has happened (Typical of the import minded) The Tundra is pretty much a flop, I mean, it hasn't even been on the market for a year and it already needs almost 1/3 of the price back to move off of lots. I agree..And no, the ad is running on TV and I couldn't find a link to it. The ad includes an extended cab truck that looks to be top of the line. Now, whether or not that translates to what's actully being peddled on the lot could be a different story.

I agree 100%!

Oh, what-ever man.... Have you even been in a new Malibu? I don't know what the Accord does to make everyone in the automotive world SOO happy, but I'm not that impressed at all. Sure it's a nice car and probably in the top of it's class despite being older but it's not the holy grail of car buying that everyone makes it out to be. As ven effectively pointed out there are MUCH nicer offerings on the market, and the 'not mass market' excuse is just that; an excuse for where the car falls short. (And yes, GM is not the only company that makes excuses for products that aren't in the sweet spot) We're not. 1) To balance the LACK of import criticism in the media and 2) Yes, a lot of us do bash imports solely because thy're imports. I've never understood why the brave few import minded soles that come to domestic fan sites can't grasp the ideaology that some of us hate imported cars just for the principle of the matter... Just as most of the media hates domestics and picks them apart for virtually no reason; we will do the same here. Do you honestly go to an import car fanboy site and whine when they REFUSE to give domestics a fair shake? (I'm willing to bet not--- In fact I'm willing to bet that it's an 'understood standard' that everyone bashes domestics and that it's somehow accepted because of the us verses 'the big bad wolf' (Detroit) mentality.I don't mean any offense to you personally, but a GM fansite is just that. And no matter how much people sneer and look down their noses at our 'simple minded' rhetoric around here, it'll remain that because a large majority of us (especially me) couldn't care less how people view us. Tell the media that... Better yet, build a car with hard plastic that doesn't have an H or T on it and watch the reviews. I do and have agreed with this for years. You know what they say about assumptions... Of course, we all to an extent KNEW this would happen. The new Malibu could be an excellent car but the hardcore anti-GM or pro-Japan Inc. would write it off before they've even seen specs, prices, reviews or for that matter DECENT photography. Yeah, because the cheap and flimsy new Camry interior is just frightenin' good. And that Tundra interior sure does live up to Toyota durability. How 'bout that Ridgeline interior that looks like Fischer Price took the lead on designing it. Don't forget about the new 80's Atari loving boyracer dubs of the new Civic!

HARRELSON TOYOTA One of my local Toyota dealers is running an ad for 8K off of the Tundra. Once upon a time, when GM was giving $8000 back to customers in order fo them to purchase a truck it was called "Bribing the consumer to buy their product." according to our fabulous media. Now that Toyota is doing it, all we hear is 1) Nothing 2) About how Toyota is "serious about selling trucks" or 3) About how good the Tundra is selling(!!!!!1111!!11) Remember; it kinda-sorta, in a way, maybe, quite possibly is out selling the GMC Sierra this year. It pisses me off that the media isn't harassing Toyota about this (Obviously because thy're not american and becuase the media isn't working over Toyota to bleed share and profits like they were the big 3) but what makes me happy is this: If the Turdra already needs close to 10K to move off the lots, imagine what the future holds as the 'new product luster' wears off and fuel prices continue to be a factor.

Well, I went and got screwed out of $9 last night to see the new Zombie flick. I give it a 3 out of 10... It's not true to the original concept, the acting sucks and the story is BOR-ING. It's basically "The Devil's Rejects" with different characters and a more boring concept. Don't get me wrong; I LOVE Rob Zombie and I'm a HUGE fan of House of 1000 Corpses (Hence my avatar) but it seems that he's starting to lose it (Especially on the movie side)

I don't think anyone here has even seen the new Accord in the flesh, yet a lot have already written off the Malibu. The new Malibu has "HIT" written all over it and it will serve all Accord and Camry buyers (Save for the VERY hardcore brainwashed---you know, the people who also think all black people are bad, or that all people who live outside of the city are "hicks", the loft appartment living, bumper sticker of the month "I live a pampered yet sheltered existence"---that kind of mentality) just fine. My problem is; SOMEONE has to INFORM the consumer that this new Malibu even exists. And judging by GM's recent $h!ty marketing, I'm willing to bet that the side-by-side-by-side deal was *probably* the best chance the car had at conquest sales. However, I could see why it might backfire, but GM has already deemed it a hit with the Aura so why go back on that? I don't mind GM cancelling the program because it does seem like desperation, but at the same time GM needs to understand that they will not win buyers with tepid 'fuzzy-feel good' smiling Malibu ads. The imports brought the fight to Detroit's front door through image, loyalty and even our own media to some extent. It's time for GM and Ford to fight or die; it's as simple as that, and I'd rather them fight and die than just die.

More dumbassed GM marketing moves... The Malibu will compete fine against the new Accord... But now, because of this we have the arrogant Honda brigade looking down their noses and saying That's what I thought." If GM indeed doesn't think the malibu is as good as the Accord it is evidence of a larger problem with the Detroit industry in general... They've become just like Pavlov's dogs in that they are conditioned to be helpless. What does GM do in the face of a media so cynical that it BLATANTLY places bias in it's reviews and boasts about it? They cower in the corner like Pavlov's dogs. What does GM do when a competitor introduces a new product that has historically been better than GM's offering? Cower in the corner.... This is because GM and it's workers and the public have all been conditioned to think that Detroit makes second class sheetmetal. Here's the kicker: and please GM, if you're reading this, take it to heart. If you do not believe that you're any better than your competitors, YOU NEVER WILL BE. It's the CONFIDENCE that is and has been missing in Detroit for 10-15 years now. If you do your best as a corporation, that's all we can ask: WIN or LOSE. And yes; I think GM did chicken out... I just don't see any other reason why they would phase out such an effective and successful campaign (Even Ford's head2head ads are working for the Fusion) And unless GM continues to be aggressive towards the imports, they will never win the fight. I hope I'm wrong; but more and more I'm seeing the old schizophrenic GM with $h!ty marketing, little to no commitment and wasted opportunities.

The default media statement regarding domestics... "Good, but not good enough" -also known as- "Good, but IS IT good enough" SEE, here's the problem: This is AS GOOD AS a domestic will EVER be because in the eyes of the media and americans alike, Detroit will NEVER make a car that is as good as anyone else from anywhere else in the world. It's the same thing MT said "Is it the standard of the world? Not quite, but it's close..." It's good; but is it good enough....... And with attitudes like this abundant throughout this country, Detroit will never recover.

Washington to Detroit: "Make the car weigh hundreds of pounds more; but at the same time increase efficiency at an unachievable rate. And while you're at it, have fun destroying your own profits and handing the market over to Japan." Washington to Detroit: "Drop dead." (Sounds familiar doesn't it?)

This article is obviously tilted in favor of Toyota. That's already happened. that team is Toyota. whoop-te-do... I hope america enjoys this small and trivial payoff for putting THOUSANDS of UAW workers and parts supplier workers out of their jobs. Where are the environMENTALists now?!?!?!?! Only if you consider something like the Camry the world's premier automobile... I wonder how long Toyota PR rehearsed that statement with the great sell out from Mississippi? And they will succeed as 1) The media helps them 2) americans get more and more ignorant 3) because Toyota has $$$ and american has been "bought and sold" for years now and 4) Our sense of national pride or 'esprit de corps' is becoming virtually nonexistant. Wow, history repeats itself... the very companies that RAN the american small electronics industry into the ground... Now it's the industry tht is running our automobile industry into the ground. More of that media arrogance... Now, instead of having pride in our own country and it's automakers; we're deemed "single-minded" and simple. And what's that? A Toyota rep admitting that Toyota is a foreign car manufacturer... QUICK! FIRE THAT GUY!!!! Oh, how sweet.... Give me a F##$%^$^ing break already! The reason Toyota would advertise the olympics would be to SEL MORE CARS, not to "return any favor" Hell if anything, they're screwing us over. But to hear some piece of $h! journalist describe it makes you want to hug the person next to you (FOG grabs the bobble head on his desk and breaks it's neck in half) Nice wording... Implies the meaning of "FATE" or that it's supposed to happen that Toyota takes over and destroys a once proud piece of our heritage. Or it's supposed to happen that this country rots in it's own self-righteous misery. OH.... MY.... GOD.... It's like PURE POETRY!!!!! Poor beaten and battered GM rides off into the sunset and the torch can be passed to begin anew with Toyota; our savior GM, this defeated monster of yesteryear that it has become is nobly surrendering and giving up BECAUSE IT KNOWS, JUST LIKE THE MEDIA HAS TOLD IT AND US, THAT IT WILL NEVER DEFEAT TOYOTA. JUST LIKE WE AS A COUNTRY KNOW THAT WE WILL NEVER BE THE SUPER POWER AGAIN, SO WE SHOULD JUST BECOME DIVERSE AND CREATE PEACE AND "GIVE UP" Anybody else get where I'm going??? Personally, I don't really give two $h!s about the olympics, just like I don't really give two $h!s about america in general. The battle has been won, it is beyond our control and our lifestyles will deteriorate as a result (As they have been doing for years now)

Yep, and therein lies the problem... That is exactly the condescending attitude he is reffering to. And that is exactly the kind of judgemental stereotyping he's talking about. No offense, because you seem to be a pretty logical guy but I personally just wish SoCal would go ahead and sink into the ocean or float on over to their Japanese masters where they belong. But that's just my :twocents: And that's coming from the east coast; home to many self-loathing arrogant americans.

Umm, okay? So consolidation automatically means killing off brands? Cadburry recently consolidated RC and DR. Pepper; does that mean that one or the other is going to die soon? I think not.Pepsi Consolidated KFC and Taco Bell into a one stop two flavor restaurant... Does that mean one of them is going to be killed off? The parent company of Peterbilt and Kenworth consolidated those two brands a few years ago? Are they dieing? Consolidation = efficiency; NOT DEATH In fact, NOT consolidating in this hyper competitive market is probably certain death. But that does not change the fact that GM will have to pay millions to buy back franchises, which leads right back into COST and one of the primary reasons why GM should not and will not kill any divisions. Sure, they're dull to some of us, but I have a hard time thinking the G8 will have ANY trouble what-so-ever meeting it's sales goal. It isn't a niche coupe with pre-existing baggage like the GTO was. This is an attractive (albeit dull) sedan with up to date performance that has already been praised by the cynical media. Judging by the reaction to 90's Pontiacs and the G6 GXP; it gets no passes period apparently. So which will it be? So that's why the Enclave is selling so well? No official plans have been announced and Buick has always had a bit more of an identity than Mercury (Which is historically a Ford with special trim) So that's why Buick tied Lexus in the latest quality survey? True that. I have a hard time seeing GM's 2nd largest and most profittable division getting the ax. Especially given it's conquest rate.

This will get ZERO to NO exposure... Just like the snapping camshafts.... and the sludging engines.... and the avalon transmissions.... etc, etc, etc. If GM currently had the CORE reliability and component problems that Toyota has, the damn company would've been run the REST of the way out of business by the media. Either way, it's nice to see Toyota falling on it's face and it's only a matter of time before people wise up (As they are already beginning to do)

Can't wait to see the tirade of negativity over this months sales... GM: either a dead company walking or too little too late? (Notice that the company is dead either way)

Let's make it a Buick! J/K Seriously; if it comes here, it should be an El Camino. This would make sense twofold because Chevrolet certainly has a dealer base to get something like this into MASS rotation, as it would be an excellent alternative to "fuel thirsty" trucks and SUVs. BUT... Here's why I think GM would like it to be a GMC: 1) GMC does trucks and as traditional trucks slow down, GMC must shift it's mix to maintain both volume and strength. Hence why we're beginning to see emphasis on the Acadia, Acadia Denali, Ute and Torrent replacement. 2) Sure Chevy can push more volume. HOWEVER, Ute production will probably be limited since they're all being exported from down under, therefore GM doesn't need Chevy to push huge volume. They'll sell out at GMC. 3) Eventhough Chevy needs attention, B/P/GMC is the weakest link in the corporation at this time. So, the more hot products (especially non huge volume products) GM can get into that channel, the better healed it will be. What's going to suck is if I can go buy a G8 from Pontiac that has the same nose (but different emblem) as the Ute from GMC.... But then again, that might be part of the grand plan as well, since GMC always has been the 'Pontiac truck division' If that is the case though, it's not a good plan.

Why do all Honda wagon/suv thingies, in their second generations, look like the first generation has just gotten REALLY fat and REALLY angry?!?! It happened with the second CR-V (It looked like a bloated possum) and it appears to be happening with the Fit... Maybe the 3rd generation of the Fit will follow suit with the 3rd generation CR-V and get on a trendy Hollywood diet while opting for f*ckt up Michael Jackson style plastic surgery for the grille and face of the car. Things that make you go "What the hell were they thinking?"

I agree... And IMO the same could be said about the GTO (and I didn't even like that car) FWIW I'd buy a Solstice over a Sky any day. That entire post is spot on...

A wagon would make a lot of sense in 2 ways. 1) To capture some escaping SUV customers (i.e. people who want something smaller and cheaper than an SUV, yet still need utility) 2) It would give Pontiac a unique offering that no other american division (at GM) has.

Wow.. The Sport actually looks pretty sexy in NON-GM PR pix. The Equinox isn't a bad vehicle and it's still competitive. But it needs to be class leading.