FUTURE_OF_GM

Not to mention, if Pontiac ever wants to be taken seriously in sports car/BMW land, it has to start somewhere. If Hyundai and Subaru can assert themselves as luxury divisions now, then why can't GM reposition their divisions as well? Let Pontiac run with BMW, and if people have doubts, then let them drive the cars and see for themselves.

I used to wash everything once a week, but now since the Camaros are kept inside 90% of the time they only get washed maybe once a month and get dusted the rest of the time. The Focus gets washed once a week still, unless I'm off at school. In that case, it gets washed roughly every 2 weeks since I usually come home for the weekend every 2 weeks. I TRY to wax every 2 months, but usually that doesn't work because I have to maintain 6 cars. When I wax I use a 3 stage system from Meguiars (Cleaner, high tech polish that can be layered and Gold Class yellow wax) and I do it all by hand. Sometimes I even do multiple coats -- I did 5 (1 cleaner, 2 polish, 2 wax) on our Silverado once and almost went crazy; it was too much work. I apply the cleaner and wax in a straight line motion and the polish in a circular motion because of the nature and different purposes of the chemicals. I also use either Meguiars Quik Detailer and/or Meguiars Quik Wax when I detail or when I'm prepping for a show. Don't feel bad about not getting the Montes out. I've been home since mid May and haven't had the Camaros out but once --- it happens.

Circa 1996... My family owned 5 cars at the time; a 1987 Chevy Truck (V6) a 1994 Corsica, the 1982 Toyota Starlet (which we still own) a 1989 Jeep Cherokee and a 1967 Chevelle. We have horses as well as a camper and had decided that since the Chevy truck was racking up mileage it was time for a trade. My dad had the Jeep for his job and mom always had the Starlet to fall back on, so we decided to trade both the '87 truck and the '94 Corsica on the new truck. (Consolidate costs by reducing insurance and maintenance) Mom would drive the new truck daily while both her and dad could still use the Starlet as a fallback car. Off we went to the dealership to test drive a new extended cab Z71 Chevrolet. They had one in the color we wanted (Emerald Green Metallic) with virtually all of the options we wanted. Dad and I decided to test drive it because mom happened to be working at the time. We headed out in this brand new truck with, I think, around 5 or 6 miles on it. We made a loop through town, down to where my dad worked to get a few co-workers opinions on the truck. Everything went well until we began our trip back when all at once the truck started missing REALLY bad, the oil pressure dropped to 20 psi and all of the other gauges started going crazy. (Back and forth/up and down) We limped the truck about 5 miles back to the dealership and, obviously VERY upset by the last part of the drive, got out of the truck. When our saleperson (whom we had dealt with before) came out to asked us how things went we proceeded to tell him what had happened. After about 15 minutes of checking he came back with this explanation: "We sold a new Tahoe about 2 weeks ago and the computer went out on it. When the owners brought it back in we didn't want to keep them waiting for parts, so we just switched the computer in this truck with the bad computer in the Tahoe. Had I known the swap was made I wouldn't have sent y'all out in this truck." We did not buy that truck for reasons other than the bad test drive, but did in fact end up buying one just like it, except with the few missing options that we wanted. Unfortunately the truck we DID end up getting was a HUGE lemon that caused a big stink and resulted in GM eventually refunding us some of the maintenance/repair costs invested into the truck. After MUCH talking by me and Ford Super Duty interiors just not measuring up, we traded the '96 on our present '99 Z71 (In 1999) which has been an EXCELLENT truck in every aspect.

When the '73 Camaro was my primary source of transportaion I came oh so close to trading it for a black '76 Corvette. Test drove it and everything. Then I almost traded it on an orange and white '69 Camaro RS. Couldn't afford that one but ultimately bought my orange and white '68 SS a couple of years later. Before I bought the '73 I was looking at a '91 Chevy truck or a 89-ish Camaro convertible.

It's seems that a lot of the "conservative church goers" here, the majority in fact, have converted to Toyotas. The younger crowd seems to go for VWs, Civics, Focuses and B-Segment cars. Sadly and not surprisingly I'm seeing a lot of Turdras here as well. In Charlotte it's a different story though. NEVER see a Turdra and in the university area most of the youth are driving a nice mix of imported nd domestic. The G6 has really taken off (As I mentioned in the thread that evok tried to shoot down, no surprise there) I also see some G5s and a bunch of Cobalts. The Fusion is a big hit and I'm beginning to see some Auras. Various Mazdas are all over the place and Nissan seems to be pretty popular too as well as the new Civic. I'm betting the Astra will be hot ***IF*** Gm plays it's cards right (Which it probably wont)

This needs MAJOR exposure!!!! GM needs to advertise ALL of it's accomplishments and play this up as the big deal it is!

Funny how that paragraph went from "things-gone-right" to "quality" when the JD Power survey isn't even a valid measure of quality. Man doesn't that sound familiar. Wow, that's pretty bad. With any luck, Toyota will both turn on and begin to cannabalize it's dealer base; or at the very least piss a good number of them off. Dealers are generally bitchy and resistant to change.

I was a bit worried about buying an '01 since those are widely regarded as 'the bad years' But I'm happy to report that this is my second '01 Focus and I have had nothing short of excellence in the quality department. The flip side of that is how well I maintain and drive the cars as I'm sure that makes a difference. I certainly hope it doesn't burst into flames though LOL P.S. I had an '05 Camry rental back in the day... It was a competent car, but certainly not the god-send that everyone says it is. And it was SOOOO boring! (For those of you that remember the pix, it was the one that I hung the sign in and taped the emblems over.)

The fact that there is no rust is an excellent thing. My '73 was completely rusted through in many places. In fact, there are only 2 100% original body panels on the car; the trunk and the roof. The rest have either been patched, re-skined or replaced completely.

We should've taken these assholes out when we took Iraq out. 1) Since when has Russia become an enemy again?!?! Did I miss something? Seems like they just came out of no where with this f**k america attitude. 2) I had no idea they prouced that much oil... I guess our piece of $h! media was too busy trying to condemn Bush and SUV drivers to tell us that a lot of oil comes from Russia, not the middle east (Just like they failed to tell us that WE produce the majority of our oil) I wouldn't mind that as long as 1) it doesn't destroy our industry and 2) as long as some PC do-gooder doesn't take it upon themself to condemn me for driving my classic show cars to a show 5 miles away. Those were different times... You know, back when most americans cared and actually *gasp* took pride in their country. And we all will live happily ever after in a Prius-induced coma sreading goodwill to all through farts that smell like Glade plug-ins.

Thank god! I kn ow that at one time GM was contemplating a GTO trim on the G8 or a Saturn Ion coupe style "4 door" GTO. (Lame) But if they are to share a lot of the same parts, couldn't GM account for the coupe not selling in huge numbers and still make a profit? Precisely... It needs to be the FLAGSHIP of Pontiac, just as the 'Vette is to Chevrolet. Even if that means stealing a few bits from the Corvette itself IMO. I agree... Eventhough I'm a muscle car fanatic, this sort of thing is what distinguishes a muscle car from a SPORTS COUPE. This will help Pontiac distance the GTO from the Camaro further. Exactly what a TOP Pontiac was and should be. Beautifully put!

It's the same way here... My town is a mix of uber liberals and retirees (all moving in from other places) Most of the old people drive the "my car" or some sort of volume Lexus like the ES or RX. The people who are buying the Camry are the older, "I'm stuck in the 70's & 80's and hate Detroit" set. these are the same people that have to be home daily to see the evening news and then believe everything they see on that news as gospel. The reason I mention that is; in Sociology, one of the things they will teach you is that OLDER people tend to watch and TRUST the media more than younger people. In fact, some of them actually believe most of what the media feeds them. That's in sharp contrast to younger generations which have almost turned on the media entirely, not trusting or believing the majority of what they see/read. This makes logical sense considering that when these people were younger the news WAS ACTUAL NEWS and not the watered down tabloid-like rumor mill that it is today. The news used to report on issues that matter through investigative reporting whereas now it pretty much gets by on soundbites and gossip (EXAMPLE: Look at all the coverage of Anna Nicole--- It's tabloid style trash, not news.) MY POINT: 1) These are the people that actually believe that the Joe Shmoe on amateur.com has given the camry an accurate and true rating over everything else on the market. 2) These are also the people who led the fight against Detroit when it made not-so-stellar products and are one of the last "product biased" generations. Unfortunately though, they are not the LAST biased generation and they still control a lot of $$$$. I'd say the boomers are the last truely biased generation, generation X was exposed to some bad products but at the same time a lot of them were still forming opinions during the truck/suv boom (That Detroit owned) as well.

Honestly, I'd buy a UNIQUE Firebird in a New York second. However, I think GTO is the better alternative as it is, and always has been, the top-of-the-line Pontiac. Not to mention even if some consider the recent GTO a failure, which it WASN'T, it still carries a better image than the Firebird. (Sadly, our society is so SHALLOW MINDED that it associates a car with a certain class of people) The recent GTO, while staid in the looks department, was celebrated as an awesome performance value even by the most cynical anti-Detroit/anti-GM. Besides, I thought the Firebird was planning to make a comeback on Alpha to essentially replace the G6 coupe.

It's taken me a lot to get to this point; a few stints in therapy, a few stints on various meds, a degree in Psychology (Inspired a lot by my wanting to understand my own feelings and help others with those same feelings) a VERY loving and understanding core group of friends that never gave up on me (especially my GF) Now, that's not to say people push me around because they certainly don't, it just means that I don't go looking for fights like I used to. I know the violent part of the equation all too well. The first time I experienced what they call 'blind rage' where one becomes so angry (and scared at the same time) that they literally black out and do bad things, it was my wake up call to get help. The rest is history. P.S. Sorry for the

I should clarify that it is a previous generation Civic. BUT I'm also comparing it to our other cars of that era (My 2001 Focus and the GF's 1997 Cavi---which is a bit older, but considering that the same basic car was sold by Chevy when this Civic became available) My Focus is twice the car that the Civic is... Drives better, sounds better, feels better, however I would pick the Civic over the Cavi anyday, but not by much.

My friends often call me Jeckyl & Hyde because there are two sides to my personality. There's side #1 which is a very caring, loving individual who accepts everyone and wouldn't harm anything. The side of me that shows when I do things like stopping to remove a spider from the side of my car before I washed that particular body panel (So I didn't kill it) This is how I was raised. Then there's side #2, the FUTURE_OF_GM side where I tend to be uber masculine, uber cynical and very hate filled. This is the side where I'm an asshole for the sake of being an asshole and I view the world as a pile of $h! that will eventually burn. (LOL-- You've all experienced the negativity) This side really came out during my adolescence when I went through some extremely rough times in my life. Do I hold back? In person; I do NOW that I'm a lot happier with my life. I think I've finally struck the perfect combination of the two sides of my personality where I can express myself yet not be a raging asshole at the same time whereas used to I pretty much made things difficult just for the sake of letting people know, ESPECIALLY the people who would try to get close to me; "Hey, f*ck you, I don't need you, I don't want you and I'M NOT LIKE YOU." However, I don't hold back to the extent that I compromise who I am. Online; well I've tried very hard to become less 'unbalanced' and the results have been positive. It no longer stresses me out to come to the forum and I feel that I have a few more friends. Sociologists have done some very cool studies on how our personas change online when compared to talking to someone face to face. Online you can become an idealized role and you're pretty much not held accountable for your actions. That's opposed to in person where it's harder to mask your true personality and harder to get over feeling bad about your actions.

And guess who are the two strongest to "fight their way out. Yep; Toyota and Honda, therefore the market has been handed over (Which WAS an underlying goal IMO... As most of the environmental do-gooders and democrat senators are on their side anyway) It was fun while it lasted... Like I said; who needs competition like Japan when your own government and people turn on you and deliver the death blow anyway.

The appeal of the Camry is much the same as the appeal of Japan Inc. in general::::: *PR* I recently took a trip to Charleston with my girlfriend. Because she isn't very good at driving a stick, we couldn't take my Focus and since I don't fit in her Cavilier too well we couldn't take it. So we ended up taking her brothers Civic. I spent the entire trip pissed off because 1) I was SO underwhelmed that I felt almost betrayed (I figured there MUST be SOMETHING that merits the media spasms over this car) and 2) It REALLY burns my ass up now that Detroit has been so unfairly criticized while this heap, and it's asian brethren are given a free ride.

I think LaNeve is really shaking up marketing and PR (FINALY!!!!) Tiger DOES need to be more of an accessory as opposed to the main focus IMO. Buick finally has product that can stand on it's own as opposed to having to be lit by a star.

WAKE UP! Japan Inc. has been using misleading and deceitful marketing methods for YEARS. What's fair is fair and IMO GM should, eventhough it HASN'T, fabricate all it can to degrade and deflate the artificial value of Japan Inc and it's products. P.S. I didn't even read your rant because I know it's just another blindly loyal import fan trying to "put GM fans in their places" Just accept that the Aura is a better product and that Toyota and Honda need to try harder next time.

I remember reading that! I'd love to participate in something like this.

TRANSLATION: "We've finally found a way to DICTATE that people do not have the option to buy those pesky, safe SUVS simply because we educated urbanites feel that the SUVs driven by obviously less educated domestic buyers are useless. AND, as an added bonus, we've just snuffed out any chance Detroit and our wretched automakers have at every being a major player in the automotive market again. Here ya go Toyota!" (hands them the key to the market) Ya know.... I hate republicans, but times like this remind me of why I hate democrats/liberals more.

1) Take it to a strip... 2) No need to crush a perfectly good car that could be salvaged and sold for charity. 3) Gives these people an excuse to buy REAL cars now. 4) However, I do feel for these guys. I'd have a damn heart attack if someone crushed one of my cars. 5) Do you just have to be "present at the scene of street racing" or actually get caught street racing for this to happen? Because it'd be pretty $h!ty to be hanging out with some friends on "the strip" and be implicated into something that you had no part in.

I think GM's ads are so timid because they're afraid the media would rip them a new ass if they tried to assault beloved Toyota. I say we go after Toyotas throat... The only way to CHANGE perceptions is by smacking the people in the face with the new facts. ACTIONS speak louder than (politically correct) words.

Yessir! That's it.