FUTURE_OF_GM

Meh..... The grille was integrated pretty well, my issues are 1) the foglight/turn signal combo makes it look too busy now and 2) It's starting to resemble the CTS a little too much. I mean, the cars are already so close now it's not funny. The front fender looks like $h! with the vent because it looks tacked on and isn't lined up with anything... It kinda reminds me of the front fender on the Grand Prix GXP; (Except that fender vent was inspired by past Trans Ams, so it at least had a little pedigree) too busy... The rear spoiler looks tacked on and the wheels would look good IF they were A LOT larger diameter. They look okay but not good. I don't understand why, since Lutz came, all of the GM designers adopted the weighty, Chrysler-esque wheel logic. Why do all of GMs luxury car wheels have to look as if they came of the discount hubcap rack of the local AutoZone. GM had bad wheel designs prior to the new era cars and unfortunately, after showing some promise, they haven't improved any.

NICE!!!! Between this and the Volt, GM seems very prepared to take on the greenies... Lets get it on the road! I guess this means the H4 concept will not be shown? Maybe? Anyway, the name and both the color remind me of the Chevrolet Triax from a few years back.

Nice to see they were developed with the help of GMPD though... At least, MAYBE their performance credentials won't get destroyed by the media... The Lacrosse Super I can live with, because 1) the improvements are welcome and 2) Buick needed it to bridge the gap. But the Lucerne Super has no business existing. Why not just add the features and HUGE power increase to the existing Lucerne and call it a day? Just like MOST of the crop of current SS in Chevrolet and the lame Torrent and G6 GXP, the Lucerne does NOT deserve the Super moniker. GM just keeps whoring it's sub brands out just like it did the main brands for years..... *sigh* I guess GM did all they could with these two OLD SKOOL GM rigs, but I don't see them getting a return on their investment, unless they're measuring by subjective elements.

+1 The grille makes the front of the car look too heavy... The Lucerne already was a bit front heavy, now it's over the top... Poor Buick, they need new models FAST!

I'd like to see the H2 get DOD, if for nothing else than PR. I can't wait to hear the media slaughterfest over the H2 and over GM's WEAK showing at NY in general... And BTW, why the hell is the HHR SS taking so long? Are they waiting because of strategy or because of engineering issues?

Amen.

Need I remind you of the hydrogen Equinox and Ford also has a Hydrogen car out but I can't recall what it is. And, FWIW GM has stated that the Volt is producable in 3 years, not that it will be mass produced IIRC.

Last time I checked, the Dual mode hybrid and fuel cell programs were progressing just fine...I think the way this paragraph SHOULD read is, like with future products (Zeta, for instance) GM anoices that they are STUDYING or LOOKING IN TO something and then the media runs with it and reports it as stated gospel. Which explains why GM and the other domestics can never get an UNBIASED review out of Foreign Car & Import Driver. We don't ask these 'journalists' to judge the integrity of the corporations, we want to know how the cars perform. That's something they seemed to have lost touch with long ago... Like MOST 'news' and 'media' these days their reviews are based more on entertainment and opinion than actual facts. Well, I could think of MANY obvious reasons... But, you know, I remember when this was the "status quo" opinion on hybrid cars as well within the automotive media. Then the current Prius came out and for some reason all the publications did an about face and "became enlightened" to the wonderful Toyota ideology that the world would at last be at peace, if only we all drove small, blob-like appliances. As a result, the Prius has become a "statement" for all who drive them about how much better they are than the avergae polluting Joe. Hell, South park even spoofed the arrogance of hybrid drivers and the hoopla surrounding the unrevolutionary technology. That is, in a nut shell, why the media is biased against the imports... This "I believe everything Toyota says" and "I'm skeptical that the domestics even have a pulse anymore" logic. Again, how is that fair, unbiased logic? How are GM/Ford/Chrysler supposed to rebound or at least survive when this FALSE credibility hierarchy has been established in the media? This isn't a gang, it's journalism... Print the facts and let the public sort out the rest. No one cares about your opinion, and if they did then consumers wouldn't be steadily losing confidence in, and cancelling subscriptions from media/news sources. I agree, but people will make bull$h! documentaries regardless... It's what BORED, jobless (Michael Moore) americans do. ***I agree with Flint though, I hope the Volt PR isn't just smoke and mirrors. But keep in mind that GM is allied with DCX and BMW on future powertrain technology. I'm not sure if that extends to projects such as the Volt, but one would think it does and that's a lot of resources. GM HAS to deliver on this.

2 years for the CTS coupe, geez, I hope the CTS doesn't get too stale by then. Not that it will, I guess, but I was hoping for a mass onslaught of CTS' from Cadillac to define a new direction. Wishful thinking I guess.

Chrominium Steel

I think the reason the Enclave looks Hyundai-ish is because Hyundai has snapped up quite a few ex-Detroit stylists. For some reason ALL Hyundai models resemble new Buick models. Which, isn't a bad thing in a way, but kinda IS a bad thing in another way. i.e. The new Buicks look classy, but if Hyundai is looking to draw in very young customers by making Buick-esque designs, it probably won't work.

Ya know, I just can't get past the Infiniti grille... I hate it. I see "sports car" all over this design until I get to the grille which says "1980s Buick" Oh well. The second teaser pic bodes well for the car though.

Wow... I was actually optimistic about this, since the 350Z has really been growing on me as of late, but nevermind.

So I wonder what will be there.... 1) Buick Lacrosse Super 2) Buick Lucerne Super 3) Revised Cadillac STS 4) Revised Chevrolet Cobalt 5) Pontiac Vibe 6) Hummer H4 concept I honestly have no clue, but there are some random guesses.

Meh.. It'll get MINIMAL media exposure and even if it does become known you'll have the army of sympathy saying things like "Well, technically, it might only be a fraction of a point..." Give me a break! Toyota failed, GM succceeded, end of story. Some people just can't accept that, it's like swallowing a bag of nails. But I agree, this is just another crack in the base of Toyota and another sign that they're sliding in the wrong direction now. The problem is, it'll take the general consumer another 10-12 years to realize this (Just like it took them 10-12 years to fully abandon the domestics)

More of the SAME SAME old Toyota arrogance... SAME old "take everything Toyota says for gospel--extension of Toyota PR" media tactics SAME old bitter people defending Toyota with whatever they can muster up. But I agree, it probably is a bit too early to judge. However, what bothers me is that had GM been in this position, the press would be rampant with pieces about how "GM produces another cheap flop"

Now, now guys! Careful! The Toyota loving 'insider' brigade will soon descend upon this thread and grace it with their abundance of great and irrelevant "facts"

+1 The 'insiders' and media can harp about "the new domestics" opening plants here all they want, but the argument is futile and shortsighted. Even with the globalization (FINALLY) of the domestics, the companies STILL employ far more americans than any of the "new domestics" especially when R&D is taken into account. My personal opinion is that GM & Ford should outsource everything. If americans want them to build cars here, then americans should buy a disproportionate amount of domestic cars. Last time I checked, the domestics barely held 55% of the market. (If you count Chrysler)

Okay, so the thread of actual events that happened and hold merit because they facts presented are inaccurate, went from racial slurs to a "bash FOG" event. Wow, I must've really pissed Mr. K off with the Toyota thread. (This brings me great joy, BTW. Obviously you're relatively new not to know this) And then I get insulted, as usual, by the first of the fallen admin. (LOL) Not sure when I pissed Satty off though, must've been back in the day. Not a month ago I was getting chastised for "trolling" other people, yet now certain people are doing the exact same thing to me. I'm so glad to be back! It's just like the good 'ole days! (And I mean that in a sincere way)

LOL, yeah, I guess this is what I get for trying to present myself with a sense of humor. Honestly, the 'shread' was based 90% on opinion as has been admitted. But alas, the 'ax grinders' have come out of the 'insider booth'. Oh, I forgot! We're not allowed to say anything negative about Toyota, for that's blasphemy on a GM mesage board!!! LOL Oh well, I've certainly survived better opponents (Rex Raider, Baddabing anyone?) The only difference this time is that I have the freedom of not really caring that much because I'm not an admin anymore. So whatever, it's no sweat off my back.

Three letters: U.A.W. I would like to see proof of this, because I'm seeing a lot of Toyota at the Enterprise lot lately. But I'll admit, I don't have exact numbers because I have no idea where to get them. Once again, I never debated that Toyota was better managed than GM, and in fact confirmed it. Never said they were--REFERENCE MY FIRST RESPONSE IN THIS REPLY. The Prius has found new life since gas prices are starting to creep up again. But overall, once prices level, the market will stagnate again, just like Ford and Toyota were complaining about not 2-3 months ago.

Sure, I'll bite. Once again, for the third time now, I never said anything about Prius volume (Other than the hybrid market was slowing and that incentives had been added) I stated that to pin the success of Toyota as a corporation on the fact that they produce a hybrid and GM does not is ignorant, and as of yet, none of you have provided any FACTS to prove otherwise evok can hump Toyota and the Prius all he wants, but the FACT remains that the Prius did NOTHING to advance Toyota profit in any significant amount other than the grotesque continued positive PR war that it launched. And honestly, with all of the bad PR endured by GM over the past 3 years as well as their image in general, does anyone here think that a hybrid GM car would've been as 'successful' as the Prius? I for one don't think so. And how do any of these FACTS relate to the content of the articleat all? I mean, they're cute and all, just like the majority of your ego fueled posts, but they really have no relation to the content of the article. It doesn't take a statistical analysis to figure out which company has been managed better and I even admitted that with the W-Body and Epsilon reference in one of my previous posts. As it is a fact that had Toyota not changed leadership in 1995, they wouldn't be nearly as close to surpassing GM in sales anyway. We can sit around and talk about "what if" all day, but again, it has no relation to the content of the article. It is also a fact that Toyota still does not employee nearly as many americans as GM, especially when considering peripheral industries and R&D. So, there again, no relation to the article other than to reinforce false support of Toyota because they "appear" to be saving the unemployed industry workers, yet people of this mindset can't seem to see past their own nose.CASE IN POINT: If you consider Consumer Reports a reliable source of information (and unfortunately, many do) in which both the Impala and Fusion/Milan have edged the Camry in quality now.

I ran into a friend of mine last night and he presented a business card showing that he worked for the local Nissan dealer. Obviously he doesn't know that I am such a domestic car enthusiast and supporter. My other friend I was hanging out with said "What the hell man? Why don't you sell american cars?" because he knew that I would probably shred the guy if he didn't inject a little comedy. The guy says, and I quote: "Actually, 70% of Nissans parts are manufactured in america and the point of final assmebly is also in america. So, pretty much the last time Nissan was a japanese car was 2000." My jaw dropped and the guy finished with "People are really concerned about that now." In repsonse, I could barely choke out (Over anger) "Wow! It's great that they've rehearsed you so well on that script, eventhough it's bull$h!." He, feeling a little shocked I guess, then said "Hey man, I just sell the cars." *** I guess the asian companies are now mobilizing their salesmen to pretty much lie enough to displace the domestics as domestic manufacturers. And, of course, we all know that the average american will buy this hook, line and sinker. It makes me so angry that the asians are doing things like this on a dealership level to essentially REMOVE Detroit from the equation. It's not even enough to have preferential treatment in the media, or a public that already considers them as not capable of failure as well as products that aren't much if any better than Detroit products. Now, they want to take Detroit out of the equation completely (In the mind of the consumer) ***

As my reply that you quoted said, I never mentioned Prius vs. Cobalt and never did I say that I didn't mention the Prius. Judging by the above quote and your reaction to the article in general, maybe it's just that you can't read Umm, okay. I'm not even sure how to reply to the first part... I seek bias? Sure, but in order to seek it must exist. So you admit that GM is a loser? Maybe that's where the problem lies and that's why you're willing to accept every fluff piece you read about Toyota as gospel. I'm pretty much done with it now. As andy said, we're pretty much I feel as if we've already turned this thread into a grudge match which is where, I for one, didn't want it to go. So, peace out.

Yes, I did... And that doesn't change the fact that it is not used to treat anger. Give me a break... LOL For the past 3-4 years nothing BUT positive $h! has been said about Toyota. It's to the point that even Toyota fans want to puke everytime they read the lastest ass-kiss piece from the media. Everyone is getting tired of Toyota being painted as the second coming. And BTW, I'm a former mod of a GM fansite that has FUTURE and GM in my name. What the hell about that situation even remotely suggests that my point of view is going to be or is intended to be unbiased? Especially when I'm in "The Other Guys" section RANTING about an article on Toyota. I never suggested a conspiracy theory and I could go into the sociology of the matter as to why I think the media and americans in general are biased, but I'm sure you know that since you've been throwing up links to things the entire thread (Which BTW, I have yet to even open) and for the record, I hate Columbo.