FUTURE_OF_GM

Because I don't want a car that I can't fit in and I don't want a car that is powered by a corporate V6. If I refined 6 cylinder power, I'll go somewhere that makes a better 6 cylinder.

Have faith about people like you ruining a company that I have supported most of my life? No thanks. And, for the record, none of this is confirmed. $4 dollar gas prices could've been predicted by a retarded 7 year old. Zeta is still alive through Camaro, G8, G8 ST and as far as I know, the Buick and Cadillac cars. Besides, anyone could've predicted that as well with the new CAFE deal. As far as brands closing, talk of that has been happening since 2001 and it's not a hard concept to grasp given GMs decline. I don't doubt that you work for GM. I do doubt that your opinion matters in the grand scheme of things. GM is just doing what it thinks it needs to do to survive and everything you have provided us thus far has been so predictable that anyone who follows the industry could've pointed it out.

Yeah, Why is everyone so quick to quel their own guilt about buying Japanese by saying "they're american cars" yet, no one ever mentions the same about the Euros. Seems like it's just another media scam to me.

Your word against theirs.... Seriously. What proof do we have that you even work for GM? Better yet that your opinion even matters in the first place?

If you listen to the media, this might be your perception. If you are founded in reality you would know that GM has been fighting for it's life far longer and has proven before that it can and will survive. (By "you" I'm just providing an example, not talking about you specifically dave)

I know... Hence why I said "WAS" FWIW, other sources in the company still insist that Pontiac will get Alpha. Just thought you might like to know :AH-HA_wink: There are other options as well... Maybe Pontiac could get the follow up to Zeta or maybe they can expand Kappa or maybe they can get AWD Epsilons and Deltas. I'll believe it when GM announces it.

ORLY... Last I heard, Reuss was in line for that job... Of course, you've been saying that CPF is going to take over the GM world for 3 years now, so I'll take a wait and see approach

Wow... Despite the downturn in the market and their line up of trucks only, GMC has only lost .4% That to me means GMC *SHOULD* be safe. GM would be dumb to phase the division out. Probably due to fleet. The division was supposed to become more focused and that looks like what is happening. Remember, the division went without an entry level model for a while, canned the HUGE selling GP and completely eliminated the Aztek and Montana. Not to mention canning the Bonneville (One model replaced both this and the GP) and losing the name recognition of Grand Am in favor of a MORE EXPENSIVE G6 and eliminating half of the Vibe line up AND phasing out it's halo - the Trans Am. WTF do you think is going to happen? So despite having all brand new products, some of the nicest at GM and 2 additional products to sell, Saturn is still losing share? WHY IS THIS DIVISION SO SACRED AGAIN? This division has countless investment, supposedly a 'better' image than Pontiac, yet it still can't manage to pull MORE share much less AS MUCH share as a cobbled Pontiac line up of rebadges and old skool GM crap? With GM's current situation, wasn't it quoted that VOLUME > PREMIUM??? Then why not phase out Cadillac in favor of Saturn or Pontiac? I'm just sayin'.... Yet again... Buick is down to 3 models from 6 or 7 (If I recall correctly) Looks like THE PLAN is working.. What's the big deal? And again, if VOLUME > PREMIUM, then why isn't Buick on the chopping block? I still say this brand has TONS of potential, but I wouldn't be against GM selling it if it keeps core divisions alive. Yet again... WHY IS THIS DIVISION STILL A PART OF GM GM HAS INVESTED TONS OF MONEY IN THIS DIVISION AND HAS RECEIVED NO GAIN FROM IT IN EITHER MARKET SHARE OR PROFIT. WHY IS THE DIVISION ALLOWED TO CONTINUE DRAINING THE COMPANY ESPECIALLY IF PREMIUM < VOLUME? So, in rank order, we have 1) Chevrolet/Chevy Trucks 2) GMC 3) Pontiac 4) Saturn 5) Cadillac 6) Buick 7) Hummer - tie Saab - tie Yet, despite SHARE being GM's number one issue in survival, factions in GM want to phase out the 2nd and 3rd largest divisions.... UN-BE-LIEVABLE! Cut Pontiac and GMC and your share automatically falls to 19.4, down almost 5 points or a fifth of what the company sells. Then the big plan is to 1) expand Buick, the core brand with the least appeal (apparently) into Pontiac territory except with more premium prices. So higher prices for less appealing products? And that's supposed to work? 2) Put Saturn in a showroom with Buick, so that the core brand with the least appeal can be partnered with a brand that can't even advance it's position in the market with a completely revamped showroom AND the best sales experience in town. Sounds like THOSE dealers are gonna be a happy bunch!!! How long you want to bet me until the GME boys have their sites set on a Buick phase out in favor of high end Opels/Saturns (That still wont sell) 3) Then try to make Cadillac compete with the best in the luxury biz, except use corporate Chevrolet platforms and corporate V6 powertrains. and they can sell these corporate cars right beside the lame duck, yet strickingly similar now, Saab which will set those two competing for resources/the next phase out. From a factory standpoint, you'll have Chevrolets that are mostly generic with MAYBE a few fun cars. Buicks that look like they've been through a midlife crisis and are probably marketed just as bizzarely. Cadillacs that are the same thing you can find in a Chevrolet showroom minus the price. Saabs that will be as nice as they've ever been but still wont sell because they're bland and because the name resonates with less than 200 people. And Saturns that will sell like VWs, to the few who want that sort of thing but not to the masses. If GM actually follows this plan, I predict a market share of 10% followed by bankruptcy within 5 more years.

So sell it... And sell Saab too... One has potential that GM refuses to recognize (Hummer) and one is utterly worthless, always has been. (Saab) But DO NOT sacrifice your core divisions! And what factual information is the "vision" based on? Your desire to see GM destroyed? That's what I thought... No facts = opinion = total You're no better than me at this game, the only difference is; I'm smarter and more entertaining. They hold share and equity, right? then obviously they have value as brands. 'nuff said. Umm.. Jeep? yeah.. So it was Chryslers fault that Daimler effed the company up so badly? That shows your blatant bias right there. Daimler, with their 'plan for world domination' bit off more than they could chew. Mercedes was already crashing faster than a B52 with no wings, Chrysler gained its mojo back when Lutz ran the company and was doing excellent and Mitsubishi was a disaster from day one. Daimler f*cked up, not Chrysler. Chrysler wasn't calling the shots. (Of course, I'm sure you're too stupid to know that -- like many americans and wannabe americans [canadians]) Anybody got any Windex??? because I think this guys crystal ball is a little dirty. You can't/and won't reverse what its taken this country 200+ years to build. Maybe pansy little apt dwellers like yourself intend to give up freedoms, but I'll not give them up until my gun lie beside me and my heart lie still. My point is, we will innovate and adapt. WE HAVE TO, there is no other way. So it doesn't count that GM still provides 25% of the cars in the NA market? What about europe and VW. Does VW not have a raison d'etre now since the market has split and it no longer controls the majority share. What about China? As that market matures and share numbers dwindle amid competition, will GM and VW not need to exist anymore? And that's not even factoring in the SIZE of the market in the first place... Less share in a larger market equals just as many or more sales. Oh, I forgot, your an idiot with no common sense, sorry. Yes... Your world would. But for the thousands of people, towns and clients that depend on this company and their contribution to our economy through jobs and R&D it would not. This author illustrates exactly what is wrong with our society today. To quote a Marilyn Manson song: "YOU CAN'T SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES. YOU CAN'T SMELL YOUR OWN &#036;h&#33; ON YOUR KNEES. CAPITALISM HAS MADE IT THIS WAY. OLD-FASHIONED FASCISM WILL TAKE IT AWAY." This guy is a cultural/social fascist, just like many in the media and "trendy" or "green" crowd. GM does not fit in their world, so they will try to destroy it. WE do not fit into their world so WE do not count.

I agree 100% Everyone saw the price increases coming... GM is relatively well positioned with future product. It's not GM or anyone elses fault that the speculators (READ, the same people who are bitching about GM's position right now and mostly caused it) were allowed to screw over 90% of the population by atificially inflating prices. Yeah... and this has happened in 6 months. You can't change your product portfolio in 6 months... Like it or not. So that board is going to BURN more cash, LOSE more share and LET GO of more equity by closing divisions. That makes a lot of sense to me. (Sarcasm) If anything, GM needs to try and weather the storm by treading water. Stay the plan FOR ONCE and see the predicted results in a couple of years. If you downsize now, you will never see an increase in sales again. Pontiac is up... With OLD product that is a blatant rip off of Chevrolet. And speak of the devil, Chevrolet is doing just fine. GM global is phenominal, because GM STUCK TO THE PLAN. What does Wagoner have to fear? Screw Saturn, we never needed it anyway. In which he has KILLED the competition on the truck side, hired Bob Lutz and completely revamped product development to be second to none, cut MORE COST than any other CEO in GM history, fought off a MASSIVE media tirade of negativity, which like this one was UNFOUNDED, focused and built 6 out of the 8 divisions and signed a HISTORIC/REVOLUTIONARY deal with the UAW. Wagoner is NOT the problem. It's middle managers that don't have the companys best at heart, a media hellbent on killing Detroit, a dealer base that is greedy and whiney and a public that is either so broke or so apathetic that they don't buy GM cars... YET. (GM is making headway) I guess history repeats itself.... A worthless bean counter ruining/running GM. Well, at least it's not that pussy Forster.

Well, I guess that's just how apathetic the media has CONDITIONED americans to be, right? And thus, why the piece was created in the first place. Based on what facts? How does this author know jack sh*t about the internal dealings of GM? Umm, yeah... GM was raking in RECORD profits not 6 or 7 years ago. There was ONE turnaround and it wasn't complete in time for this storm of bull&#036;h&#33;, caused in the first place by the very same people that fear it (Wall Street) hit. Okay, 1) Lutz hindered the comeback of cadillac as much as he helped it. and 2) Cadillac is in no way comparable to Lincoln and is NOT an also ran. Umm, what about the 900s? The CTS, the Lambdas? the Malibu? etc... Since when is 100,000 sales considered 'niche'?

+1 This car would do very well here. Too bad it's to "common sense" for GM to catch on.

I agree 100%... americans care more about the advancement of other countries than their own.

I think that's spot on too... I've never been one of those people who thinks every car should be V8 & RWD. I just want the OPTION of a V8 on a RWD car. As far as I'm concerned, GM should do the same thing with the G8. Make the V8 the top of the line halo car and beef up the V6 and sell the crap out of V6 equiped cars. Market it against the top Avalon, Maxima and LX cars as a "better driving, more efficient performance car" and watch them fly off of the lots. Zeta is SO MUCH MORE than a sweet V8 powertrain. Now, when we start saying V8s will not be OPTIONAL equipment; that's when I get pissed.

This was always the case... NG G6 was to be a Malibu with Pontiac clothes. THEN the Alpha G6 was supposed to come on board.

I'm still a fan of my idea from a few years ago. Chevrolet should build a whole line of performance coupes (only) under the Z moniker. Z06, ZR1, Z28 and a Z moniker Cobalt/Cruze coupe would be pretty cool and could make HUGE headway into the performance market. Of course, I brought this idea up when GM was whoring out the SS name. Now that it takes 'a little more' to be an SS, it might not work as well.

Careful, careful my friend You're getting dangerously close to my state of mind. "Blackened is the end. Winter it will send. Blowing all you see. Into obscurity. Death of mother earth. Never a rebirth. Evolutions end. Never will it mend. NEVER!" --- MetallicA

Bingo! "The Street" will push Detroit as hard as they can.

More ignorance... Wonder how much our fun friends at GME had to do with this? God forbid anything ever out do CPF & PCS' POS Saab division. A couple of thoughts: 1) GM finally has the car and the balls to 'take it to' the Euros in their home market, yet it won't. I'll still be laughing when MB and BMW are killing Cadillac here on its turf 10 years from now. (IF the division hasn't been phased out in favor of Saab) 2) When will the day come that cars like this are deemed to 'ridiculous' for OUR country. Guess we'll jhave to move to China (The new superpower) to buy real cars in the not too distant future.

I agree about the 2 mode hybrid.. However, GM cannot let the press dictate its choices like that. Acura is going full speed ahead with a V8 sports car. The Germans are still going to build V8 luxury cars... etc...etc... If GM allows itself to be "controlled" out of the market, then the battle against them is already won. No performance Camaro is a dumb move (Not everyone wants a Vette, just like not everyone wants a Chevrolet) If the Z28 were to flood the market with 30,000 cars, then I could see the logic of canceling it. But at 5,000 cars?!?! Really?!?! Not having a V8 in Cadillacs is suicide, especially when you're still trying to be noticed over MB and BMW, not to mention when Infiniti is beating down your door. Shutting down/eliminating all of your real trucks is ignorance when people still need them and will still buy them in pretty big numbers and the programs cost pennies to make (Compared to thing s such as... NEW SAABS that will never provide the same return) GM is basically regulating itself into an also ran. GM is giving up. GM is doing exactly what the anti-Detroit media and loud motuhs want; they're laying on their back and taking it. On a related note; why does the Z28 have to be a 'bling-bling' Shelby KR competitor? (ala ZR1, except in a different bracket) Why not decontent an SS, give it a bit of a performance bump to make it the fastest and most track ready car in the camaro stable and sell it that way? (ala Z06) The Z28 was NEVER meant to be a show off piece, it was meant to be a track car. I love the GT500KR as much as anyone here, but it's pretty much useless in the grand scheme of things. I can mod a GT or GT500 to go much faster for probably less money.

I don't even care if the division is all RWD. Just focus the damn divisions already and get GOOD product out. It's so simple that a 7 year old could understand it.

Overlap never works... Give it 5 more years of overlapping and GM will NOT be saved. Now, they have the cash and the means to save themselves, but this is it. If they eff up now, all will be lost.

Cry me a river... Why don't you go buy from one of the other 5 GM divisions that sells what you want?

Why does everyone at this company value Saturn so much? No proven results.... Resulted in the death of 1, maybe 2 core brands.... Tons of money spent... No identity... No brand recognition... No equity... God, GM management is stupid.

LOL... Okay, so 1) Saturn "will survive on it's own" It sure ain't surviving too well right now with a showroom full of "gee whiz Opel products" 2) EVERY GM division must fight the imports now, not just Saturn. In fact, if ANY ONE division needs to fight the imports, it would be Chevrolet.