FUTURE_OF_GM

We're not living in the past. If we were living in the past, we wouldn't be posting on a web based forum for future GM vehicles. We just choose not to be defeatists. GM CAN determine it's own fate, if it wants to. But they can't expect to join the Army and then not fight. Their passive defeatist management and corporate attitude is what we're here to try and condemn/change IMO.

I'd be fine with that... As long as Alpha includes a V8 option. Pontiac could even develop high performance V6 models for the bulk of it's line up and save the V8s for exclusive GXP lines. Then, we'd have to do some re-naming. How about GTO for the Grand Am coupe and Firebird for the Tempest coupe? How about a sexy convertible too, or a small car based SUV? Just a thought. I'd like to see the Denali XT and HX there as well. Sounds good. Develop a halo convertible from a smaller platform? Agreed, except won't the STS and CTS still clash? LOL... Seriously though, Saab could be utilized to sell premium small cars such as Mercury or Mini. they'd obviously have to be nicer than Saturns, but that shouldn't be hard since they're already developed to be nicer than Opels.

I'll have a black SS/RS (Or Z/28 if GM gets its head out of its ass) in about a year.

We have 4 strong divisions. 1) Chevrolet 2) Saturn 3) Buick/Pontiac/GMC 4) Cadillac/Saab/Hummer

Agreed... The only way for GM to get ahead of the asians is to be innovative and do what they do best. imitation has gotten them no where for the last 25 years and that will continue to be the case as long as the Detroit companies try to be what they are not. the consumer knows this and sees right through it. By not capitalizing on what makes GM GM, they are missing out on one of the biggest opportunities they've ever had. Especially now that the nostalgia kick has been in full swing.

I don't think so... americans are very fashion conscious and they all seem to love new classic "detroit autos" that reflect fashion and tend to be unique. What sells the asian brand though is the details. the details that GM and the others haven't been able to get right. If you bring a beautiful design out, but the materials suck and the quality is bad and the resale is low and the (insert other misc detail here) isn't up to par, then americans would rather play it safe. A car is a major investment, especially this day in age. And americans aren't going to invest in something that seems unsafe.

This is great news. But the homogeny of offering this V6 in every vehicle kind of scares me... I guess that's just me though. Maybe the CTS should have more power?

True that...

Yeah, but what's funny is how they're going to cut their own throats. because the few interesting cars are what actually attract the few sales of the bland stuff that they can manage. Once the interesting stuff is gone, so is the free PR and the enthusiasm around a statement like "Well, that new camaro is awesome, maybe GM is getting it together." And with no marketing budget to peddle the FWD crap, I'm willing to bet GM dealers will become ghost towns in no time. EDIT: I am NOT against GM offering FWD cars. What I am against is GM offering ONLY FWD CARS and GM hastily making decisions and products that will doom either it or one of it's divisions in the future. Do we need 15 different RWD muscle cars? Absolutley not. But I think each division should have every product evaluated on it's own merit to determine it's place. Maybe we don't need a RWD Impala, but we certainly need a RWD large Pontiac and/or Cadillacs. GM needs to calm down, attack the WHOLE market and work toward LONG TERM PROFITABILITY. PCS once told me to "keep the faith" I'm not sure if he meant it as an insult or as some much needed support. Everyday it gets more difficult.

Honestly, I even doubt that. I'm willing to bet that G8 and Camaro are left to die as is (Because Alpha won't be ready in time for the F6 and Pontiac apparently isn't worthy of any investment) Cadillac will see 1 Sigma model left (CTS) until the platform can't be continued anymore. Then the focus will be centered around Alpha (assuming it's ready by then) since apparently everyone at GM thinks that we'll all be driving 3 square foot turbo four and 6 cylinder cars in five years. Solstice will disappear, since, again, Pontiac isn't worthy. Sky will come off of Alpha as a companion to some Cadillac model (That is, if Saab doesn't get the next Sky) Buick... LOL, forget about them... they're next in line for the trash heap once Pontiac is dealt with. And Corvette will be downsized to the point that people like me can't fit into it and as a result of being downsized (READ: In Detroit-speak, downsized also means cheapened) will no longer have much prestige at all and will eventually be viewed as the MG or Triumph of the auto world. (Fun, but not very good) I feel you man... But people like me and you (and the people we influence, hang out with and passionately preach GM to) don't count, remember? GM's own all-star employee told us that. GM would rather chase a growing base of customers that will likely NEVER buy their products again (Because the new sh*t is going to be just that; sh*t) Last I heard, Ford and Chrysler still have RWD products planned. LY is a go at Chrysler and and Ford is working with Ford of Australia to bring ECOBOOST powered RWD products here. (Of course, lately I've been a little out of the loop, so I could've missed something)

Vehicles that Pontiac offers which other GM divisions do not: Vibe: A fresh, small alternative to SUVs that, because of it's ties to Toyota, attracts people who wouldn't normally buy GM. The problem; horrible marketing. G6 Coupe: No other GM division offers a mid size coupe. The problem: the product is outdated and needs proper marketing and factory support. G6 Convertible: No other GM division offers a retractable hardtop in this class. In fact not many other manufacturers do. The problem: the product is outdated, needs more factory support and better marketing. G8: No other GM division offers an affordable RWD sedan. No other GM division offers an affordable large sedan that isn't completely outclassed. Not many other manufacturers offer affordable RWD sedans, especially RWD large sedans with comparable fuel economy to FWD large sedans. The problem: Horrible marketing and product mix. G8 ST: No other company or division offers anything like it... The problem: Poor marketing (Already... the fact that it was named ST, and has been thus far IGNORED is not a good sign) and horrible product mix. Solstice Targa: No other GM division offers an affordable small RWD coupe. In fact, not many manufacturers do. the problem; the product still has weak points and the marketing will no doubt suck. Pontiac has the MOST unique line up of vehicles of ANY GM division. And some could argue that it has the most unique vehicles in the market right now. If SMART business people ran GM, they would be diligently working to EXPLOIT this and to reverse the "bad image" of Pontiac in consumers minds. However, th people that ruin (oops, run... typo ) GM would rather 'play it safe' and continue to lose market share and money by utilizing old fashioned, blue collar, naive Detroit business sense. If indeed Pontiac is on the chopping block, what do they have to lose? the division has a great portfolio of cars that are underutilized and will soon evaporate (If what we hear is correct) Delta II could easily fix this. And it's so easy to do... The market CAME to GM on this one and Delta II is so close to launch that it isn't funny. So why not Get as many sales as possible by making a Pontiac version that will actually penetrate the market instead of suck off excess Cobalt sales? If GM rebadges the Cruze as the G5 again, then the whole board and executive force should be fired. This scenario is so easy that a 5 year old could figure it out. the market is right, the product is timed right, the divisions are strong in equity... It would seriously take a mentally handicapped person to eff this up. Both have 1/3 of the line of the G6 Or GM could exploit the death of Zeta and free up their entire RWD market for the G8 and expand the line... The G8 has NO competition within GM now and it already has 2 out of 3 of the bodystyles. Ford and Chrysler are both moving forward with plans for large RWD. Shouldn't GM use their already better car to expand into the segment? GM could adjust the mix to mirror the Camaro, pump up the marketing a bit and have a big hit in the G8. Sure, the market isn't going to grow much, but neither is the truck market and GM still wants to keep their stronghold there, so they're investing. It's kind of ironic in that, through the death of all the other Zetas (not counting Camaro, which will sell anyway) Pontiac could potentially benefit BIG TIME because it has no corporate competition. the niche is wide open and the answer already sits in Pontiac's showroom. No development, no lead time, no . Just expand the line and recalibrate the mix. GM has plenty of capacity here in the states to sell more of them and they could sell more of them IF THEY'D TRY. But corporate politics won't allow it. Yeah right... With the 'redneck' image that the El Camino has. GM is better off to start completely fresh and market the truck to young people who need to haul bikes, home improvement supplies and the like. But I'm willing to bet that the G8 ST will get about as much promotion as a fat lady at a strip club. Or, you could utilize Theta to make it a true sporty SUV. I don't mean to be anti-GMC here, but if the Acadia deserves to die because Chevrolet has the Traverse, then why does GMC need a Theta if Chevrolet has the Equinox? Isn't the same thing going to happen? See, this is a prime example of why GM DOES NOT have too many divisions, it just DOESN'T UTILIZE THEM CORRECTLY If you have 3 thetas coming to the US, why make them all the same? Why not make the Saturn either the euro flavored (maybe smaller or greener) alternative, make the Chevy the volume leader and then make the Pontiac the sporty alternative? Instead of that logic, we get a fat assed Vue that is supposed to LEAD GM's plug in "green" movement, a fat assed Equinox that looks just like the Vue and probably a fat assed GMC version that will mirror the Equinox way too much. So, move the Solstice to Cadillac where it's target demographic can't afford it? Or move it there with the same price and destroy what little prestige Cadillac has built? And why does Chevrolet need it again? the already have Corvette and Camaro convertibles. And what about the Sky? If the Traverse destroys Outlook sales, what exactly do you think a Chevy Solstice will do to Sky sales? Not me... I'm a HUGE proponent of the Vibe. It attracts would be import customers (A few years ago it had one of the highest conquest rates of any GM -- Until GM let it get stale and cut the line up to sh*t) If anything, the Vibe needs to be expanded and exploited. we need more versions of it and more marketing for it.

My thoughts exactly... In fact, I had heard (From a source that no one here likes) that this was going to happen LONG before all of the CAFE I hope that is the case... Theoretically (READ: hopefully) I can see GM operating 3 RWD programs in the future; Alpha, which will underpin the mid-size and affordable stuff. The Zeta/Sigma hybrid, if it actually exists (For the Cadillac CTS and maybe a larger Caddy) and something that will replace the Y-Body and Kappa. I'd be fine with that if the platforms were very flexible and if every brand could utilize them AND if they were utilized in the correct way. There really is no need for 2 large RWD programs (If indeed Sigma is to survive and evolve) and likewise, there really is no need for 2 sports car programs if one can be flexible enough to support the whole portfolio. Not to mention, Kappa was basically a downsized Y-Body/parts bin platform anyway. Now, that said, it wouldn't surprise me any if they just killed all of the RWD stuff (Because they're ignorant) and sold FWD rebadges from all around the world (Because, despite 20+ years of lambasting and market share loss, someone on the GM board still seems to think this is the road to success) I guess actually being able to take pride in what GM builds was fun while it lasted though.

Careful my friend. Certain admins around here will be threatening you within hours if you 'stir the pot too much' like I apparently did. Ahh, GM and it's bureaucracies...

If indeed GM has given up on Hummer, make the HX (with different skin of course) a GMC model. It could be the GMC E Flex vehicle (I think every division should have an E-Flex halo) Chevrolet = Volt (small sedan) Chevy Trucks = Small truck * Price is a factor, or should be a factor, so keep it small. Pontiac = Small sports car * No brainer... To do battle with the new Supra if indeed Toyota is going to make that car ECO. GMC = HX or the small truck that Chevy got if Hummer is kept. Hummer = HX * No brainer again. Buick = Mid-size luxury car * Maybe this could eventually give Buick the edge it needs for volume. Cadillac = SRX sized SUV * To compete directly with the most technological and ballyhooed about Lexus RX Saturn = Flextreme type of vehicle *Saturn can get a little more creative if it really is the wonder child GM thinks it is. Not to mention, the concept has already been well received. Saab = Mid size sedan *To further reinforce Saabs new mission statement of "environmentally friendly", to market to that specific clientele that shops the brand, is environmentally concious and would never be seen in any other GM AND to give Saab some MUCH needed exposure. If GM is as serious about E-Flex as I hope it is, they could REALLY revolutionize the image of their divisions *IF* they play their cards right. E-Flex will sell itself in this day and time, to have your division attached to that is icing on the cake and something that EVERY division at GM should be clamoring for. (I know, it's not divisions anymore, but you get the point, right?)

LOL... Yep... Add that to the ever growing list of niceties the asians seem to rip off from 80s & 90s domestics and not get lambasted for it. You know, like cheap plastics, charcoal gray interiors, crappy 80s design and electronics equipment that sounds like it came out of your grandfathers era.

Just wait 'til the press gets ahold of it... After all, this is the same bunch that berated the Escalade for it's sub par steering wheel telescoping ability.

Thus cementing Pontiac's place in the GM empire...

+1 Part of me says: "Well, the coupe and convertible still look good and this just adds a little more aggression to the designs. Which is a good thing" Part of me says: "Wow... That's the best they could do? It looks and acts more and more like a Solara everyday."

IIRC, Uplander is made specifically for fleets now.

But wouldn't that be nonstop blue balls? Anyway... For me, 1) something akin to what Chip Foose does or 2) the lead singer of a heavy metal band.

I guess they did hit the mark though... I much prefer this, and my GF likes the new SRX better.

Yeah, I was afraid they were sticking to that. (I remember when it was announced) But still, 5 spokes can be attractive. The original Volt wheels were sweet.

According to this topic: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=25137 GM is expanding E-Flex, so why not set the world on its ear by building an E-Flex Hummer? Just a thought.

We're at a pinnacle now. I fear it will only get worse from here.

Why must all Chevrolets wear the same bland, ugly 5 spoke wheels?