FUTURE_OF_GM

Yet, Pontiac shows positive momentum, despite having totally lackluster product (except for the G8, which 1) has received NO support and 2) could still be considered lackluster by the brand faithful target audience) and GMC still continues to be huge with profits that GM can't make on any other division. And GM wants to phase THOSE divisions out to the benefit of REGRESSING 100 years worth of equity to BUILD Saturn with money that the corporation doesn't have, DUMP more money into a division that has NEVER returned a profit and basically doesn't exist in the mind of the consumer. (Saab) Fine, LOSE Hummer, that's cool but don't go whining about the market shifting again in a few years after you've sold and closed all of your truck divisions. People constantly bitch about Pontiac and how it's an enthusiast division that appeals to relatively few LOYAL buyers (Now, at least) Yet no one EVER says that about Saab which is in the same boat, or an even worse position because it's loyal customers (all 5 of them) abandoned it when GM took ownership. Don't even preach "the street" line to me... Look at the market in general, look at the economy. It's not just GM and we shouldn't destroy the company to survive.

I agree. And that was the plan all along. But in typical fashion, GM couldn't stick with it long enough to see if it actually works. Makes perfect sense. If GM wants to focus Chevrolet as the volume division, THEN THEY NEED TO DO IT! There is no reason that Pontiac/Buick/GMC has to pull volume like Chevrolet. well, no reason other than to appease the dealers (Who pump more money into their import franchises anyway) How long until GM wises up and starts having "factory stores" again?

Well look at that, More "news" posted by PCS (You know, the type that pushes his agenda) Hmm... Funny that all of those brands mentioned are supposed to "SAVE GM!!!!1111!!!!" Of course, the fact that the author says all of these brands have a hard time attracting buyers shows how ignorant he is. For good reason... Cutting brands costs A LOT of money and cutting brands costs A LOT of positive PR. Why am I not surprised that GM middle management can't grasp this concept? Wisdom?!?! Yeah right...

Lame...

Which is exactly why you came here. We were the #1 GM site on the net and we were very enthusiastic about Zeta. So much so that we dedicated an entire project to it's creation. And you volunteered yourself, or were sent to kill enthusiasm for both that program and GMNA. All for the benefit of you and your colleagues that seek promotions to OUR company. And people wonder why I want you banned so badly. You are politicking C&G.

No... It wouldn't... This is all about the constant f*cking pissing match that seems to be ruining (/running) GM these days.

Yeah... Except no Camaro enthusiast wants a V6 Euro-feminine Camaro.

I agree 110%... The media needs to be censored and GM needs to start fighting dirty (My GOD! How many times have I typed that now) if it wants to survive. That's all.... Death or fight. Your choice GM.

Yeah, because I'm not a pessimist at all

Are you f*cking kidding me?!?!?! I AGREED with enzl, of all people, in the Cadillac Lambda thread about GM needing new management. ALL I do is constantly bitch bout GM's "ignorant" (a direct quote that I have used MANY times) decisions about product, brands, marketing and consumer psychology. Yet, you guys throw this up in my face as status quo. Maybe 'some' people around here should open their eyes more often. Or... enzl is a dealer and bitches because GM is not making him a lot of money right now. But instead of blaming that on the VARIETY of problems that have lead to our sad state, he insists on blaming GM because it is easy.

Why? The media certainly is/was/will be a LARGE part of the problem. Besides, no one is blaming them for Detroit's failures, we're blaming them for their continued incompetence and failure to fairly report news. (Something that is so easy to do that it's harder to report BIASED news)

The analysts estimate based on how they or their companies can profit. That's all I'm saying. If that means GM must die, then they will force the market to devalue GM.

Yeah... Because everything that CARBIZ and I say around here is "GM status quo"

At least the Aussies will still have real cars.

GM rallied the market on Tuesday, so someone on "The Street" had to rain on their parade. God forbid GM ever show signs of recovery. Some dip$h! analyst is always there the next day to slap them back down.

The sad part is; it's homogeny on the part of ALL the asian brands that allow them to get by with this. It's just another 'appliance' that is devoid of all personality and style.

At first I thought you were just wearing rose colored glasses, but I guess you're just blind. It's the same game GM plays, except it's ok for the imports to do it. And GM did a good job. 'Twas the media that started the whole "badge engineering" anti-GM The consumer isn't smart enough to know that the trucks are the same thing. I'd put MONEY on it. Go show 10 people 15 pictures of crossovers and throw the Enclave and Traverse in there. Then see how many of them can tell that these are the same vehicle. Consumers don't even know what engine is in the car most of the time, even though it says what it is on top of the damn thing. I know this, I worked in auto parts. My point is this: EVERY COMPANY USES PLATFORMS and ELEMENTS in various cars. In the 90s, the media lambasted GM an Co because it's cars were too different. COMMON PLATFORMS they said, just like the asians. And just like that argument, the badge engineering argument is MADE UP for the detriment of Detroit and nothing more. GM also got screwed a lot too, and TOO many times it was by dealers just like you. It doesn't count if the very entity that created the argument reinforces it. (The media) You're suffering from confirmation bias, that's all. You're right? Okay, so that's why the Lambda program is failing so badly in the market? That's why the GMT360s were a complete bust in the market.

But it's fashionable to buy a hybrid here. That will be the selling point. As long as american *THINK* their helping the environment and the GET the approval of their friends, everything else is chalked up to nonexistent. I mean, after all, most of them are too ignorant to actually know the facts.

And which division is GM thinking about phasing out again? I also find it funny that the two divisions that are down THE MOST are 1) Saab which is off by a whopping 29% and 2) Saturn which is off by almost 19%. Yet GM, in their myriad stupidity insists that CORE DIVISIONS must go. And, for some reason GM is STILL selling LESS Aveos than they were a year ago... Hmmm... Excellent job with that redesign Korea. And the Equinox is only up by 1%... WTF? Canyon and Colorado, despite being where the market is going, are both getting killed. Despite Saturn supposedly being the new star of GM, Outlook is getting killed and the brand spankin' new Vue isn't outselling the OLD Vue. Wow... Just wow... I think we need new management asap.

True that... But we all know asian imports DON'T COUNT in the great quest to destroy history/equity, because they have none.

Exactly... Just like you and I have always said. The industry that CREATED the savings left (or was sold out and stolen, rather) and for the past 10-15 years the 'global economy' has been BLEEDING america dry of wealth, technology, industry and talent. Now it looks like the blood is all gone an there's nothing left but for the organism to die. Agreed and agreed... I worked in investments and I saw it first hand. You can make any pile of sh*t look like gold as long as you mess with the stats a bit and fix the wording. Looks like the polishing cloths have lost their magical touch.

Nah... The country falling apart is an entirely different, but related issue. The problem runs much, much, MUCH deeper than Detroit and what's left of our domestic auto industry. But alas, it was one of the last few pillars (Both economically AND confidence-wise) that this country had Subconsciously, every american could always fall back on the auto industry as a powerhouse of economics, like the industry or not. Now that it is (will be) gone, what takes it's place in the mind of the consumer to increase confidence levels? Nothing... Bingo... Which is one thing that prompted me to make the statement about the country falling faster. Sooner, rather than later, what last little bit of american industry and ingenuity we have left will be financed, and OWNED by other countries. I'd be willing to bet that Asia will control more of what this country does than our own government in, say, 10 years...

So your solution is to roll all of Pontiac over into an already PACKED Chevrolet showroom? :sighs:

I agree 100% If the market is shifting away from trucks, then Chevrolet should (for the most part) follow the market if they want volume. Let Chevy build the unibody truck offerings and sell the volume. Make GMC the true truck division that it's supposed to be. But I'm sure that makes too much sense for GM to actually do.

Yeah, because those brands fit together perfectly.... So then, Buick could be starved and voila, Saturn/Saab. Saab is obviously the 'wave of the future' so eventually it could become Cadillac (Once that division is axed, of course)