Windy-57

OK, been a while since I posted, but here goes. I have to listen to the people around me persecute the domestics for the bailout money and I don't think they get that these companies have been doing a lot within their legal rights (franchisee laws, union contracts, etc.) to get back to good. It's just kinda tough when you've been turning a monster size corporation like GM around and then gas prices rise to the extent they did and the credit market falls out from under you - leading to a 40% (or thereabouts) drop in industry sales. And I think Toyota's cash troubles are indicative of just how hard things have been. Toyota didn't make horrible decisions, they just took some short term risk by making some big investments and now, due to these crazy circumstances, are having revenue flow issues.

This is another great step forward for that brand. I think Buick has some real potential if this is the direction they're heading in.

I'm not sure I'd give Alpha to Buick. Just as much as I think Pontaic should be all RWD, I think Buick should be all FWD or AWD and I don't think teh Riviera is the right car to do AWD on.

Good to hear they're still dedicated to Saturn. The thing that GM has done in the past that's driven me absolutely nuts, is when they invest in a brand and when the first iteration isn't a massive home run, they abandon it. Given GM's beaten image, they need to show some long-term dedication to some of their brands so that they can actually build a meaningful image of those brands. And a good place to start is with Saturn.

Agreed. We knew a long time ago that this wasn't going to look like the concept, the aerodynamics didn't work. As for big, clunky & Prius like, yeah you've got a point. I wish that GM hadn't done the same shape as the Prius, but at least it's not as close as the new Honda Insight will be to the Prius (those two are pretty much identical.) Is the back end of the Volt raised because of the battery packs? And as for not being $40K good looking, it's hard to say. First, we haven't seen the interior. Second, the economics of this vehicle are completely different from anything else on the road. If you could save $2K per year on gas costs by driving this, then you start making up the premium pretty quickly. And the truth is, the first gen isn't going to save GM, but if they get this out first and get the actual driving data with it first, then they'll kill on teh 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations.

Sorry, bit late on the reply. Doesn't matter what we know and don't know, and the experts can argue what will happen next, but what really matters is what the consuming public believes. And my guess is that when prices dropped, a chunck of the consuming public (certainly not all, not even most, just a chunk) believe they would stabilize.

Well, as has been stated many times, hybrids still have a tough time making their economics worth while (how long do you have to drive a Prius before you've recouped the hybridization cost?) So people weren't running toward fuel efficiency because gas was $4/gallon, but rather because, in their minds, there was a real potential for $5, $6, $7....$10/gallon gas. So, when gas prices fell a bit, it's an initial sign that the price of gas is starting to level off and, in turn, that lessens fears about continued price increases. Which is why, in the consumer's mind, it's OK to start considering SUVs, sports cars and the like again. So, my point is that this isn't necessarily a short-sighted reaction, but rather this reaction likely has a lot of lont-term thinking behind it.

Yeah, it seems like they could be out with it early...that would be great.

Sorry, but the front end on this is ugly...just like the Traverse is ugly. I don't get why the felt like they needed to do a Malibu-esque grille on this and the Traverse. They have different styling themes for their SUVs and Pickups, but I guess doing a CUV theme different from the cars was asking for a bit too much. Hopefully the interior makes up for the exterior styling.

Part of me feels dirty by the thought of doing a Reventon with a Fiero, but it is going to look damn cool.

Why does it need to be better than the 3-Series? Sure, they should aim for that, but reality is that they most likely won't unseat the 3-Series at the top of the compact luxury market. Mercedes and Lexus have been trying for a while too and haven't been able to, but that doesn't mean the C-Class and IS aren't worth having. In my mind, they should aim for the 3-Series and judge success by being better than (the next) IS.

OK, I'm a bit late to the game on this thread, so I selected a few topics to briefly touch on: 1. Niche vehicles are not dead in this market. In fact, there are more niche vehicles in the market now than there ever have been and, as technologies continue to advance, we'll continue to see more niche vehicles. However, in GM's case, they don't have enough resources (money) to put into the development, production and marketing of niche vehicles; they need to focus on putting their money into high-volume, high-profit vehicles, cut the "nice to haves" and focus on getting back to profitability. Then, after that, they'll think about niche vehicles again. Someone already said it, it's about ROI. 2. Saturn has a lot of value, stop asking GM to kill it. The issue is that GM hasn't found a way to harness the value it has. The first mistake was bringing it "in-house." And the second, bigger mistake was making it an Opel rebadge. I have to admit, I liked the move when they did it, but they completely disregarded their consumer base when they went upscale. Sure the product is better, but their buyers loved two things: great customer service and low prices and, historically, didn't care about the poor quality. In retrospect, a better approach may have been to focus cash on making great Chevy products and then use Saturn as an all-rebadge of Chevy with decontented, slightly differentiated product. 3. Please stop quoting historical sales when making your case for GMC. Using past sales is the same backward-looking approach that has gotten GM into their current troubles. It doesn't take too long to look at GMC's lineup and the trend in gas prices and figure out that their sales are probably going to take a serious shelling through the rest of this year and for the foreseeable future. Not to mention Acadia sales will take a pounding with the arrival of the Traverse.

Interesting idea. What if Chevy sold cars with a name, but as an option would tailor badging for you? I think some people would get into that. Also, isn't this supposed to get up to 45 mpg? Is that old news? Why isn't there a bigger deal being made of that?

That's a great point. Lowers weight and solves a major engineering issue. Hopefully the press doesn't slay them for this. Also, this may save on development costs, so that may help keep it a bit cheaper. Also leaves some room for packaging - maybe we'll see a Volt Long Range a year after intro??

True, but it allows the country to focus its energy policies and efficiency efforts to a smaller set of energy sources. And, as mentioned, there are plenty of fuels that can be used to create electricity, but as of now, the vast majority of cars are using petrol, so hybrids & EVs also present a great opportunity to reduce our country's depedence on foreign oil. To the second point, has there been any mention of making the range extender flex-fuel capable?

The problem with that is that the Tahoe sells in much better volumes than the Yukon and the Silverado sells in much bigger volumes than the Sierra. It doesn't make sense to phase out Chevy trucks to keep GMC. Not to repeat, but it makes more sense for GMC to take over the commercial region so that the brand doesn't have to die. Then if consumer perceptions change enough after the proliferation of alternative fuels, as you suggest they will, you can re-expand GMC into the consumer realm again.

Good to hear that GM has brought out the troops on this. Hopefully they'll keep them dedicated to the future of this product even after initial launch. There will be much to fix and refine and it's not just about being first, but being first to perfect. Not to mention, it would be great to see this system on a number of other models. And yes, I do think GM will make it on time. It just depends on the quality, fit and finish with which it's initially launched. Also, I certainly hope there will be buyers. GM should begin the launch of this model with a teaser ad that reads something like, "If we build it, will you come?" Throw the gauntlet right back at the people who threw it at you. To the ones who asked the American Auto Industry for a more environmentally friendly model, ask them if they are now willing to put their money where their mouths already went. And the government should absolutely subsidize this vehicle (or vehicle type.)

There have been some good ideas on this post today. I don't think there is relevance for GMC in the consumer market right now or in the forseeable future. I know there are people on this forum who feel GMC is differentiated enough from Chevy, but unfortunately, I don't think enough of the car-buying public agrees. However, making GMC solely responsible for GM's commercial trucks would keep the brand name alive and would actually reinforce the "Professional Grade" image. That way, if the market changes again and there is significantly more demand for trucks, you can easily expand back into the truck market with GMC utilizing the B-P channel. While I don't see relevance for GMC, I do see relevance for Pontiac. I hate the assumption that performance brands are irrelevant in the new CAFE world. I see tons of opportunity to bring more fuel-efficient vehicles to the market that are truly performance oriented. Pontiac could stand in a market of its own if GM gave it the attention. Finally, I don't see Saturn merging with B-P anytime soon (or at least I hope not.) The one thing Saturn has always done the best is have a great dealer network that gives great customer satisfaction. If you're going to merge its dealers, then you might as well just kill the brand.

Cutting a brand like GMC will focus money and resources. Fact is that in its heyday, GMC reached buyers that Chevy couldn't, but now with the truck market shrinking like crazy, I'd bet the combo of Chevy, Buick and Caddy can pretty much cover for GMC. - When GM dedicates the cash and resources to doing a product right, they've shown the ability to truly amaze (Malibu, CTS, Enclave, Etc.) However, GM is strapped for cash right now and simply doesn't have enough of it to give their full product lineup enough attention to turn things around. So, they've been hodgepodging lineups and it's not working. They're also shorting some vehicles on fit & finish. Cutting GMC will free up cash to in the near-term and long-term to refocus their efforts. Add to that the fact that you get to redistribute GMC's marketing budget elsewhere.

Sorry, but for the good of the company, I do hope this is a sign of the end of GMC. It will free up money to give other brands the attention they need.

This does sound like a good idea. By the time this rolls around, the Lambda Caddy very well could be the Escalade replacement. Good more and good planning. Outlook is out of place in its brand and needs to go. I don't think there is much argument there. Acadia may be doing OK now, but wait until the Traverse gets here. Plus, in my opinion, I think it's time for GMC to close it's doors too.

Not good...not good at all. Personally, I don't understand even having the G8 if it's not going to have a stick option.

Yes, the biggest Hummers are gas pigs, but Hummer is a strong brand to put up against Jeep. It was a mistake, too, to cancel production of the Hummer H4, a smaller vehicle to compete against the iconic Jeep Wrangler. Just because consumers are flocking to vehicles that are more efficient does not mean that they do not want exciting, macho, sport utility vehicles I completely agree with this and couldn't have said it better. As for small cars, don't give one to Pontiac. He mentions going for the luxury market, so then give it to Buick. Small cars for Buick, Chevy and Saturn will be enough when you consider that they'll also have the Vibe and Solstice for Pontiac.

This is the type of thinking that belies a lot of opportunity in the market. Sure, electric will never have that classic sound or feel of a muscle car, but that doesn't mean it can't be performance based. I know it's expensive, but the Tesla roadster puts up some pretty good numbers. I personally think there is a huge potential to do a hybrid or series-hybrid focused on performance and it's a great way to give Pontiac huge dose of relevance it critically needs.

I agree with a lot of what you have here, but a couple things to note: 1. They don't need two Zetas in this market and with GM's brand structure, the other Zeta could land somewhere else. 2. I know we all want Pontiac to be entirely RWD, but the modified Kappa would likely be expensive to execute and it would be tough to make the price point necessary for that type of vehicle. But, why can't you have a FWD compact hatch? VW's GTi is FWD and damn fun to drive. I've been saying Pontiac would be well served by a car like that for a while.