Camino LS6

And that population has a tendency to impose their views on everyone else while living in places that amplify all of the negatives in our society. It is probably why my dislike of my fellow Americans is growing. Many see cities and urban living as some sort of solution to our problems. I see it as a backward mentality, clinging to a tribal past. The herd mentality of it all runs counter to my most basic metrics of what is good. I've always felt that humanity benefits most from a healthy distance between people, and that density breeds violence and a diminished standard of living. So, why not think of all of this in another way? With so much of the work people do today, why isn't a move toward tele-commuting at the top of the agenda? Having the freedom to make a living no matter your location seems incredibly attractive to me. There is a move to tele-commuting. It may not be a national agenda, but "the invisible hand of the market" is already pushing that one hard. Cisco is the big winner there by owning both Webex and Tandberg Telepresence. Cities don't inherently breed violence. The way we do cities breeds violence. I have to disagree on that last point. Due to your experience in cities worldwide.... or what? Have you ever left the country? I have, and would like to again. On point, just look to history (or current events) to see where the violence takes place in the world.

That isn't to say that our cities couldn't be better, they certainly could be. And yes, decent mass-transit would help.

Ain't hydraulics grand?

Love it!

And that population has a tendency to impose their views on everyone else while living in places that amplify all of the negatives in our society. It is probably why my dislike of my fellow Americans is growing. Many see cities and urban living as some sort of solution to our problems. I see it as a backward mentality, clinging to a tribal past. The herd mentality of it all runs counter to my most basic metrics of what is good. I've always felt that humanity benefits most from a healthy distance between people, and that density breeds violence and a diminished standard of living. So, why not think of all of this in another way? With so much of the work people do today, why isn't a move toward tele-commuting at the top of the agenda? Having the freedom to make a living no matter your location seems incredibly attractive to me. There is a move to tele-commuting. It may not be a national agenda, but "the invisible hand of the market" is already pushing that one hard. Cisco is the big winner there by owning both Webex and Tandberg Telepresence. Cities don't inherently breed violence. The way we do cities breeds violence. I have to disagree on that last point.

And that population has a tendency to impose their views on everyone else while living in places that amplify all of the negatives in our society. It is probably why my dislike of my fellow Americans is growing. Many see cities and urban living as some sort of solution to our problems. I see it as a backward mentality, clinging to a tribal past. The herd mentality of it all runs counter to my most basic metrics of what is good. I've always felt that humanity benefits most from a healthy distance between people, and that density breeds violence and a diminished standard of living. So, why not think of all of this in another way? With so much of the work people do today, why isn't a move toward tele-commuting at the top of the agenda? Having the freedom to make a living no matter your location seems incredibly attractive to me.

Take all the time you like, I'll be chewing on this idea for quite some time.

Got a laugh out of that one...

I'm just not paying that much attention to a proposal that 1.) The republicans would never in any way allow and 2.) The Whitehouse said wasn't even included in the debate. It doesn't get much deader than that. I was just being cryptic, Drew. It was the "regressive" debate that I was referring to in that post.

No kidding. The thing is, though, that you and Camino seem unable to think of the other perspective...you know, how people get through life without driving. I grew up with a family where one parent was blind and the other was legally blind. No car. Somehow they managed to survive, and their kids thrived. Ever think of the disabled? Many of them physically cannot drive. Horror of horrors, they must be complete shut-ins, right? No, they find alternative ways of travel. It really isn't that hard and awful, people. You are talking tiny numbers here. America is still a nation on wheels. Only in your limited, closed mind. My limited ,closed mind? Really Croc, that's just not called for - nor accurate. The reality is that this country is built for, and still depends upon, the private automobile. To say otherwise is to deny reality.

OK. What I'm doing here is trying to think through an idea for a fictional setting for a story I have in mind to write. That's why I want to brainstorm the everyday things in such a society. The big stuff helps too.

$2,500 is mighty steep for an AC fix.

That's a whole new topic, Olds...

No kidding. The thing is, though, that you and Camino seem unable to think of the other perspective...you know, how people get through life without driving. I grew up with a family where one parent was blind and the other was legally blind. No car. Somehow they managed to survive, and their kids thrived. Ever think of the disabled? Many of them physically cannot drive. Horror of horrors, they must be complete shut-ins, right? No, they find alternative ways of travel. It really isn't that hard and awful, people. You are talking tiny numbers here. America is still a nation on wheels.

Is someone playing Taps?

Hmmm...

Congratulations! You guys have successfully twisted my thinking yet again. Thanks, and feel free to add new twists!

That sounds like a stretch to me. And, I suspect that the regressive aspect of this proposal is the very reason that the administration was so quick to disavow it.

I'm pretty tired too (should be sleeping at this point), but I think that you get the jist of it. I would say that loans wouldn't necessarily have to be short-term. For ventures, rather than purchases, I'd say that they key term would be investment. For your car purchase, perhaps the dealer could offer interest-free payments over a period of time. I suspect that this term would be shorter and require a higher downpayment than we are used to. He might also offer a discount for a cash deal. Either way, I expect the price of the car would be lower. Now I'm going to crash in the hope that you guys will have some new insights that will twist my brain tomorrow. Thanks for playing along!

Fappster: What you outline might indeed be the result if an economy like our own tried to convert wholesale, but I'm not so sure that it would be so bleak in an economy in which it grew organically along with the society itself. Loki: It isn't all that complicated if you just take one small aspect and imagine how thaat one small thing might be without credit/commercial loans.

So drive less, carpool more and/or take public transit...things lower income earners already do. You don't have to drive everywhere in a car by yourself. This kind of a user fee system affects drivers, based on how much they "consume" regardless of income. And does that not confirm the idea's status as "regressive"? It does not. It is my understanding that a disproportionate impact on the poor makes it regressive, this qualifies in that regard.

You're sort of missing the point a bit. The technicalities of this are really secondary to what I'm going for here. What would things be like on Main St in country "X" ? How would parents plan for educating their kids? What might that education cost? What would the car business be like? How would spending habits look without credit cards? Would interpersonal relationships be dramatically different? What would the impact on the environment be? Would charities be run differently? Would life be less stressful? That sort of thing is what I'm wondering about.

I would love to do what he does for a living...

Quit thinking USA, Loki.

Olds has been notably quiet on this... I think he knows what I'm up to.