Camino LS6

OK we can move this discussion to Pontiac... Right after this post. Don't forget, I said no hard and fast rules - if it doesn't make sense you don't do it. But, I also think that purposely juxtaposing Pontiac's product cadence to the rest of the brands would open more opportunities for the niche brand. Let me try another example without actual platform names. Let's say that Pontiac has a coupe, vert, and a sedan: all on different platforms The coupe is on platform"A" and it serves the purpose, but it isn't perfect for Pontiac. Now a new platform debuts with a coupe variant that is perfect for Pontiac, so they dump the "A" coupe and replace it with the one from the new platform. Meanwhile the "A" coupe soldiers on at other brands unbtil its at the end of its cycle. This way, Pontiac isn't a slave to the needs of volume production runs elsewhere. You'd have to make the choices wisely so that the weak link is always the one that gets dropped, but it would make Pontiac GM's most dynamic brand. As such, I think that fact could become a major selling point. In a way, it is like what Holden does with its exports around the world - except in reverse. Pontiac could be the predator lying in wait for that new architecture to arrive. Could save Gobs of development money for GM if done right. And, it could add a little nudge of volume to open up options for all of the brands.

Sorry for the hijack, Ven. I didn't mean to turn this into a Pontiac thread, but I have to answer Northie's question. Platforms come and go at an increasing pace, right? Well let's look at how they come and go. Usually a volume version hits first, say a sedan. Later maybe a coupe shows up, or a sportwagon/crossover, then a vert. What I'm proposing is that Pontiac replace the older variant with the new one in , say, it's second year if the case can be made for a Pontiac version. With Pontiac limited to very few models as a niche brand, they could stay interesting this way. And, they wouldn't have to miss a good opportunity at a new model because they have to wait for a product cycle to complete. The hope being that they could have a version of three different platforms without a high model count. So, an Alpha sedan debuts at Caddy and Pontiac builds its version to sell alongside a zeta and a kappa. Then Kappa gets cancelled the same year Caddy intros an Alpha coupe which Pontiac picks up. Another year and Caddy adds a crossover that Pontiac doesn't want on Alpha so they pick up a new variant of zeta ,dropping the old one. The next year an Alpha vert appears and Pontiac dumps the alpha sedan for it. And so on. Nothing hard and fast, just living within the smaller scope of a niche brand while keeping things fresh. So we don't have to say "when are the refreshed G6's coming out" year after year. Tagline: There's always something new at Pontiac.

I like that scenario... but there are others.

Plenty of pain to go around...

Simple. Pontiac will, by necessity, have to piggyback on platforms used for other products for the forseeable future. So they will have to make the most of it when a configuration becomes available. GM is unlikely to allow them a "family" of product (G8 variations, for example) unless they forego anything else. So, when a sport coupe becomes available- they do a performance version of it in full Pontiac style. Ditto when other configurations come into production, and the Pontiac version bows out early when the next big thing becomes available. And so on, and so on. That way, the offerings are always fresh. And, eventually, a hot seller might be allowed to stay as a new model is added. It's a tightrope that Pontiac should walk IMO. Be daring, be brash, but be smart and use what's out there by riding on the volume brand's investments. That way "make or break" isn't so immediate for any given model and Pontiac can remain unique at all times. Kinda juxtaposed to the normal product cycles. I hope my explanation make sense - the ideas have sort of outstripped the words tonight.

Lend me some of that optimism, would you? I could use it.

All future Buicks should be beautiful. (elegant, artistic) All future Pontiacs should be Hot. (aggressive, sexy) Neither one can ever have another bland, boring, or pedestrian design.

It's a scary time in a scary world to be sure.

Hmm, so many paths to the result we all know they have to arrive at. They just need to get on with it. Uncertainty is the enemy of recovery.

Fresh out of cash myself, but I'd love to see any reports like that you are willing to do!

I may try to watch re-runs of today's house proceedings before I call it a night.

He already has dozens of "reasons" to do that.

Exactly.

That's a bit of a stretch, I think. Those that hate us are already planning attacks. What do you think might happen if we actually get off our butts and move significantly to energy independence?

I see Pontiac as a rotating lineup. At first, just one entry in three sizes. I'd love to see all of those Alpha variants, but not at once. And not as the only Pontiac offerings. Of the Current stuff: G8, G8ST, and Solstice variants would have to do. Slim, I know. But then each would be rotated out for something new, my baby being the first out.

Ven, I think if we sat down for a few hours we could devise a killer lineup for both brands. With focus.

EDIT: I am refering to my hypothetical Riviera here, not your Poncho Porsches. :AH-HA_wink:

Not a bad approach. To a point.

I think that the whole luxury segment is short on cars like that. I think they should be Buicks.

Think of how you might re-do a '71 Riviera for the present day. That car had an unmistakable style of its own, and it was powerful. But it's power was understated and adult, subordinate to the style and class of the car.

If I had made my case clear enough, you would see that we agree. Think of it this way: Pontiac is to BMW as Buick is to Benz

With Caddy occupying the luxury performance segment alone, Buick and Pontiac need to split that mission in half. I think Buick could be far more elegant than Caddy, not more luxurious, there is a difference. Caddy has to dance with BMW, Buick has the luck to not have to, giving Buick a freer hand to be beautiful and elegant without the need to be brash.

If Zeta wasn't currently doomed, I would love to see a Buick version of the HSV Grange here and a limited production Velite. It would be fine if the Grange had a powerful turbo six, but the car(s) simply can't be marketed as performance cars. The performance they have must be understated. Whereas, with Pontiac, it must be overt. No way, no how, will Pontiac get a Vette clone.

Contained within the same showroom, I would call it an error to market any Buick as a performance car while Pontiac lives. I just think that is the reality of the the day. Equally, a loaded Bonneville would be a taboo approach under this regime. See what I mean? The Buicks that have best represented the essence of the brand over the years, have had a timeless, elegant style. I see that as Buick's mission and as its strength. The Hot Rod Buicks of the past were more of a nod to serving a niche that has only made fleeting appearances on Buick's resume. Focus is everything from now on for every brand.

They ride the same platform, and will basically arrive together.