Camino LS6

I'm sorry Satty but that is an absurd statement. I'm not simply an enthusiast - I am a loyal buyer. And, that's a demographic GM can't afford to alienate. FOG, Z., and Turbo have the right of this debate. I would add that cost-effective alternatives to the tanking SUVs GM build could also be zeta-based. GM is blowing a golden opportunity to get a serious return on investment out of Zeta after commiting major funds to it. Those that think this platform "has to go" are the ones with narrow minds and little vision.

Just to clarify: I was talking about the VY/VZ cars, not Zeta. The foot-dragging was the old regime's fault.

Hmm, I forgot about it being 2wd. No matter, I should have said "full size pickups" as the 2wd versions can be just about as bad when it comes to a rain-slick road. The weight bias to the front is the culprit.

You know, this car would be more interesting visually if the beltline followed the sweepspear.

I'd recycle it.

I'm actually not so much arguing with you as venting against moves that I see as huge errors in judgement. The GMNA zetas really have (had) the potential to become legends, I see that being squandered. Even considering the outside factors, the result is that GM has almost entirely missed the boat on RWD. Too slow to make it happen, they've blown the chance. No amount of FWD blandmobiles will ever generate the buzz and goodwill those cancelled Zetas would have. Until the products stand out from the crowd, it's all for nothing.

While I'm at it, I seem to recall that "things hinged on G8 sales" . Seems to me that the G8 is doing fine as the second fastest selling sedan in the US.

And, that internal source shouldn't be putting all of its eggs in one basket. And, that internal source should be pushing for the wider use of the technologies Holden will be using to keep VE viable. Zeta could meet the demands of both the market and CAFE if the obstructionists would but allow it.

Damn! Opportunity lost.

Oh it was foot dragging allright, we should have been enjoying the last generation of Commodores over here in all the bodystyles from the start of that run. As for that powerful internal source, it should have pushed Zeta ahead and grabbed the sales and goodwill it could have provided for a few more years before this all went to crap. If that vision of the automotive future comes to pass - I'll take the zero. It won't matter anymore.

4WD pickups tend to be a bit skittish in the rain - especially when it is a light rain. It doesn't take much to kick the tail out.

Perhaps. For now. Almost (if no manual is offered) What bugs me is that GM dragged their feet way too long. We could have had some great RWD cars for the last decade if they had not. That, and the utter waste of Zeta's potential when it could (or could have) provided innovative and desireable product in many forms - the Denali XT for example. And, I'm pissed that I won't have a reason to care anymore. And, I'm pissed that we all waited so long for this just to be diappointed - again.

What if small groups in a given locale were to form cooperatives to support small scale ethanol production from local feedstocks? Say, for example, a local car club splits the cost of running a small scale facility with paid staff and the equiptment required to produce enough fuel for all of the members on a non-profit basis? Just a thought. :AH-HA_wink: ...at least for now.

It's not an issue of narrowmindedness, it is an exercise of choice. I simply will not spend my money on a new car that does not appeal to me in a damn-near perfect way. It's just not worth it. A new car is a huge expenditure (about to become even larger), and I will not pay for something I don't want. No surrender, no compromise. I just won't pay more for less.

Well, like I've said before, if the new product outlook is that bleak, I'll just buy old stuff. There is no reason that I'll have to buy any new cars after the G8 ST. No reason at all, and I'll save a bunch of money in the process.

C'mon GM, the name for the G8 Sport Truck was to be announced this month. Only a few hours left to make that happen.

Glad they are doing this car, but it really needs more cargo space.

Damn! Really sorry to hear this, my friend. I once had a truck that was hit 5 times ( none my fault), I decided it was cursed and sold it.

Shades of

Won't happen, and a moot point for me since Alpha won't be V8 capable. That doesn't mean I don't think Alpha should happen, I do. It just isn't for me. A lightened Zeta with fuel-saving tech applied to the drivetrains and alt fuel capable is what I'd really like to see.

They look really good in that dark gray metallic (forget the color name). I saw one in that color yesterday - very classy looking.

I still like all three. But then, I hate almost everything else on the market.

This is a car that needs to be replaced with an Alpha.

They had better hurry it up. And, Alpha won't cut it for me. Zeta is the perfect size to suit me and nothing smaller will do.

Not quite, the Grange is on the longer wheelbase platform - and that makes all the difference. Truly elegant - and much more appealing than say, a CTS.