Camino LS6

Thanks PCS, I'd like to get it done for the guy. He's a good client of mine and a family friend.

I just listed it on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...em=330116598089

I have this vain hope to see Toyota crushed between the domestics and the Koreans. Something like this helps keep that dream alive.

Thin Lizzy? Now that is going back a bit of distance!

In some ways yes, in others not so much. Let's just say that my tastes remain consistent. :AH-HA_wink:

Thanks for posting that, Mustang. I still can't find the original article I referenced again, but the point's now been made.

I think if each of us were to examine the things that would make us say no to a car, we might find that there wil be at least one complaint that the rest of the world would consider it a trivial matter. That's the great thing about freedom of choice- we don't have to accept what anyone else thinks is good enough if we don't agree. The dash fondling tendencies of many on this board spring to mind. For those folks, any hint of "hard plastic" is some huge trauma. Whereas, I put such things much lower on the priority list. Conversely, the chances of getting me to buy a sedan are incredibly slim - I just don't like 4-door cars. And, I will never buy FWD. We all have different criteria that precludes certain vehicles from consideration, 68's is no less valid than anyone else's.

Damn! Black Hole Sun is still "new" music to me. I'm a freakin' antique!

I do the first oil change at 500 miles. Vary speed and don't flog it during those miles. Then, every 3k and drive it like you stole it.

Saw a Lincoln Blackwood yesterday.

Stupid statement.

Please keep trying, the errors tend to be short lived.

Depending on who you ask, Zeta long or short wheelbase with all GMNA designed sheetmetal. Likely just a sedan. But I guess all of that could be in flux at the moment.

Mentioned briefly here too: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/toyo...mp;siteid=yhoof

Hey OC, I think it was in the Lapham commentary on Toyota passing GM in the 1st quarter. I found it posted somewhere and now I can't find it and I'm not an AN subscriber. Maybe someone who is can provide the text. Rest assured, I'm not blowing smoke here.

Recent news article, I think it was from AN. I've read so many in the last few days I can't remember which news source it was.

Except that a few things have changed since then: -GM is atificially limiting Impala production to keep demand and transaction prices up. - GM is rducing fleet sales significantly. - Toyota is increasing fleet sales. Not the same old bugaboo anymore.

Just re-read this entire thread- whew! am I tired. I think that the G8 will do extremely well for Pontiac. If I wanted a sedan, this car would be the one. There is nothing like it on the market really: BMW is way too expensive to be a competitor and the LH cars are large and coarse by comparison. No, there would be no competition for my business if I wanted a sedan. I would buy this car. Why I will not be buying it: - New El Camino is coming - New GTO is coming - I'd rather have a Camaro than any sedan Funny, all my candidates are Zetas. In this sedan-happy world, I think this is the best option on the market. Yes, I could buy it. But I'll be waiting for the El Camino instead while enjoying my GTO.

Well at least Toyota will finally be giving something back to the American economy... via their lawyers' salaries.

This sentance was all I needed to hear from Guy to make it all worthwhile to me. "So next time you hear a Zeta's being "reevaluated", or is on hold, or is being delayed a little, keep in mind that none includes the Camaro, El Camino, or G8. These are locked in."

Another uplifting post by GuionM over at CZ28: Take the position that General Motors is a business first and foremost. Their entire reason for existing is to make the most money with the least investment and churning out the best product possible. General Motors is selling every Impala they make right now. They are even artificially backing down production to keep prices stable.... down to "only" 250,000 cars annually. Second, to be perfectly honest about everything, Camaro is 100% safe for one reason, and one reason only. It's an approval that was publically announced and has been amazingly transparent in it's development (most transparently developed car since the Pontiac Solstice). GM's painted itself into a corner with the Camaro to which there's no escape. If it wasn't for that Camaro would be either put on hold as well. GM isn't likely to clear as much on each Camaro as Ford does with the Mustang, so there isn't as much real incentive outside of enthusiasm and momemtum. There were fewer Z28s made in 2001 and 2002 than new GTOs sold in it's worse year, just to give an idea of what type of convincing had to be done. Finally, one of the things about the internet is the herd mentality and the ripple effect. How one small quote magnifies to the level of a catastrophy and creates a stampede of people running in the wrong direction. Bob Lutz has NEVER.....EVER said that Zeta is cancelled. 2 years ago, he said it was put on hold. A week or so ago, he said the program was "paused". Today, there's word (which is very plausible) that the Impala program is slightly delayed. Yet each time, it's turned into a "doomsday scenario" on the internet. It hasn't been posted yet as to why Impala is delayed. Perhaps GM wants to bring out all it's sedans at the same time. Perhaps GM decided to add a different volume engine and needs the extra time to certify it. Perhaps GM decided to squeeze another year out of the Impala. Perhaps, like the 4th gen Camaro's late restyled windshield, there's a last minute design revision that requires a structural change. It's ridiculous for anyone to think even for a moment GM is going to walk away from Zeta. Last year Chrysler sold over 143,500 300s and in excess of 114,000 Chargers. Chrysler has probally just over half to 2/3s the dealers that Chevrolet has, yet (throwing in the 40K Magnums sold last year) they sold nearly 300,000 "volume" rear drive cars"! Although GM's FWD W-body dwarfs that number, it's still a huge and profitable number. GM's rear drive Zeta program is EXTREMELY important. Not because it wants to keep performance enthusiasts happy, but because these are the "Aspirational Cars" that Lutz, Welburn, and others were talking about some years ago. The RWD sedans are top model of each brand that sums up what that entire division is all about. They have the latest goodies and technology, performance & ride, and is the car each loyal buyer of that division will buy when they have enough money, or are at the point in life where they can own that car. Think of the old pre-1977 Cadillac Fleetwood, Buick Park Avenue, and Chevrolet Caprice. Add in Northstar II, possible Turbo HF V6s, and the LS3 under the hood depending on division, advanced IRS under the rear end, modern day sizes, and styling that sizes up the entire division's styling history but in a very modern way with a bit of edginess to it. So next time you hear a Zeta's being "reevaluated", or is on hold, or is being delayed a little, keep in mind that none includes the Camaro, El Camino, or G8. These are locked in. Also, don't believe for a moment the sedans for Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac are in any real jepordy (they may not be locked in, but the door's barracaded). And don't fall into the belief that at least 1 "big" coupe won't make the cut (it's essentially going to be a LWB Camaro with a very different skin, and cost comparitively pocket change to make). Keep in mind, Zeta also was seen to spin off wagons, hatchbacks, and also the short wheelbase models were going to be phased in to replace at least a couple of dying W-body midsized cars after 2011. I'd imagine that's where your death blows are going to hit and do the most damage..... ......and give rise to this small RWD Alpha we've been hearing about. __________________

It still seems that the end of the Ws is still on schedule with the possible exception of the Impala. I've been trying to find the silver lining in all of this, and have come up with just one thing. This could be very good for the G8.

Agreed on all points.

I have been patient for a very long time and will try to remain patient, but it's past time for GM to throw us a bone. RWD has been up in the air for way too long, and derailed too many times. The US Gov't. needs to back off as well.

Hand holding not required nor desired. I simply think this decision is a mistake.