Camino LS6

Yes but, more Americans die violently in Philadelphia each year than in Iraq. One of the hot topics in the mayoral race.

When it first came out, I watched a QS-equipped truck parallel park - it was nothing short of amazing. If I remember right, you couldn't get it along with plow prep so I had to let it slide.

No argument there, I have no problem with a decent base model. Why should I? I don't even have a problem with FWD cars being offered, unless it is to the exclusion of RWD cars. EDIT: Life is too short to drive a car you don't like.

I have liberal friends who assume I'm a liberal and conservative friends who assume I'm a conservative. Both are "shocked" when I take a position on an issue that doesn't toe the line. I like it this way. :AH-HA_wink:

It's a matter of context, in the "crazy man with a gun" context we are conditioned to comply with demands and/or seek help from the authorities. As for your example questions: 1. Yes 2. No, but I have a vivid imagination :AH-HA_wink: 3. Not on your life! Black Friday shopping is for fools!

Yeah, Quadrasteer was very expensive at first. Later GM dropped the price WAY down but I guess the damage was already done. I wanted one pretty badly.

I agree, very nice cars were built on it. Too bad Ford always left some critical detail out each car, dooming them unecessarily. (Too little power in the T-Bird, no manual in the V8 LS...) They were on the right track, just didn't follow-up when they needed to.

I agree, but in this society we are conditioned to not respond with force. Perhaps we should take a hard look at that.

The real test will be Camaro and Impala.

Been thinking about that aspect of it myself...

It would have been nice,though, to have had factory TPI-powered Monte Carlo SSs with ABS in say, 1987. That the Gs were still saddled with carbs to the end (on V8s) is just sad.

Point taken I do tend to be pretty serious about this.

Interesting, if a bit pessimistic. My scenario would not have included ignoring FWD, a balance could have been found instead of the "me too" failure of going so hard at FWD across all lines. I could flesh it out a bit more as well, the B-bodies would likely have been axed much sooner, the SUV craze would have been dampened a bit, and the F-body would have been adjusted to niche level. FWD would have evolved separately and not been overly large initially as was the case. Berreta and Corsica would have gotten a bigger push and more advancement...

Hmm, I live in a snow state and always buy RWD cars and 4wd trucks. What the hell do I need with FWD?

I hope you like sauteed crow... :AH-HA_wink: So what qualifies as Zeta being "here"? The Camaro debut? The start of G8 imports? The Impala debut? Other Zeta variants? Just when will it really qualify as being "here"?

I'm going to take this a step farther. In the '80s, the G bodies weren't competitive the way that they should have been. Imagine this alternate reality: In the 80s, the Gs get EFI and ABS - they didn't. In the 90's the new Gs get a new platform with IRS, the LT1, air bags, and traction control In the 00s they get a VZ -style platform and all that it brought to the party -Enter Zeta. Instead, we got the proliferation of SUVs, the largely ignored f-body left to wither on the vine, the B-body put out to pasture, and a bunch of underwhelming front drivers that were behind in the market every year. While I love the F-bodies and have a soft spot for the Bs, I think that GM backed the wrong RWD horses and put their faith in lackluster FWD cars that trashed the brand equity of revered nameplates. The result being heavy loss of share as well as soul. We could have been watching the evolution of cars like the GTO and G8 right here through out the last 2 decades. Instead we get crumbs from Holden because we forgot how to do it ourselves. Had this been done, the whole automotive landscape would have been very different.

I understand where you are coming from here, and in no way want GM to build clones of the old G bodys today. But, imagine where those cars could have gone with even a portion of the development money spent on the "W"s. I put it to you that they would have been wonderful cars and GM wouldn't be so far behind in RWD these days. I ceased to consider GM mid size cars the day the last G body was built, and never had a reason to look again until the GTO came to market. The move of these cars to FWD was terrible strategic move that has yet to be fully corrected. Had GM continued with the RWD cars and built FWD as well, things could have been so much better. The wholesale abandonment of RWD hurt them then and still hurts them today.

Both were great ideas! Not sure why they failed, I have the feeling (justified?) that GM just didn't try hard enough with these innovations and cancelled them prematurely.

Not at all, while the drivetrains were anemic ( GN excepted) all of the parts were in the right places and the proportions worked. The drivetrains are easily upgraded to whatever level you choose as is the handling. The FWD stuff that followed may as well have had a warning sticker saying "No user serviceable parts inside" slapped on them. These cars will live on in modified (and in some cases restored) condition, treasured by their owners. Whereas the W body will rightfully be recycled.

So far,so good.

The only real failure in this list is the Aztek as it was intended to be a volume product, the others never were.

I actually like some of those wagons, but the fixed windows were absurd. And, it wasn't just performance models that I remember fondly, the Cutlass Supreme was once the sales leader in this country. When GM abandoned these cars for the likes of the Celebrity, it was the start of terrible things to come. Damn it! these relics need to pass away - NOW.

Absolutely fantastic post!!!! And, I'd be willing to pay the fee. I just want to be able to buy a car that I like. Damn the ninnies, I will live as I choose.

That was a funny moment, I knew I was in trouble as soon as that statement came out of my mouth. :AH-HA_wink: EDIT: I was talking about the surface rust on the frame, you pervs!