CARBIZ

Marketing 101: figure out what you want the message to be and then trumpet it. GM has trumped Toyota and Honda on many models, yet the media continues to portray GM as the purveyor of gas guzzlers. I am glad to see GM getting some of its mojo back and stick it to the Japanese. GM has been taking it up the ass for far too long.

The 'margin' on a vehicle like the Accent is only about 7 %. Hyundai manufactures NOTHING in Canada and imports EVERYTHING. That means, other than paying the commission for the salesperson, and the overhead of the dealership, a couple parts warehouses and a small head office, all the money leaves this country. At least Honda and Toyota have the courtesy to build a few vehicles here.

Toyota advertises the Prius at $27k, but that is for a base model that you won't be able to get. GM has a golden opportunity here because the Prius is such a boring car to look at and drive. If the Volt doesn't deviate too far from the concept, it has a good shot at attracting buyers who are mildly interested in a 'green' vehicle but wouldn't be caught dead in something as vanilla as the Prius. If (as I fear) GM continues to water the looks of the Volt down until it looks like a warmed-over Malibu, then it won't have any perceived advantage over the (boring but 'safe') Prius and its sales numbers will reflect that.

Well, it's a good thing they are only $18k, since 90% of that money goes directly to Korea.

I wouldn't sweat that too much: the Prius sells for far north of $30k around here and it has been a perennial strong seller. People will bend themselves in half to make themselves feel good as they drive home to their 5,500 sq ft home with 2-2 ton centra a/c units whining all day and heated, inground pool.

There are definitely supply problems with the Aveo. I can attest to that. Every time we get a few in, they are gone. That is why GM is switching production to Mexico - to shorten the time lag between order and delivery. I hope people realize they are looking at two quite diffent vehicles with respect to the Aveo: the sedan got a serious facelift in 2007, whereas the 5 door gets it for '09. I would agree that the interior 'look' of the 5 door Aveo is the weakest in that grouping, but the sedan interior is on par with the Fit and Versa. I guess it depends on whether you like a sea of light grey or a sea of dark gray. LOL The Aveo automatic transmission has always been weak and I'd love to see GM put its own transmissions in that car. Not sure if there are plans for that yet. The mechanical tweaks to both '09 Aveos do address its other 'shortcomings' (power and fuel mileage), both of which will bring it up to snuff again with the competition. Again, I don't feel GM has to have a home run with every vehicle it has on the lot. It only has to stop embarassing itself, like with the Uplander in '08. The '09 Cobalt interior has (finally) been upgraded and the LT package with the chrome door handles, etc. is downright beautiful - especially in black! Import humpers will have orgasms with just about anything with an H or a T on the hood, so GM can stop worrying about those people and just keep doing the best it can with each new generation of small car. I see more and more people making the rounds of the dealers and analysing everything to death. It is going to take years to overcome the perception the consumer has of Detroit, but of of one thing I am sure: they are a fickle lot. Give them a couple hot looking cars that are decently put together and they will forgive and forget. Doom and gloom analysts will find something else to whine about, of that I am sure, too. Oh, and stop playing nice guy and start touting GM's strengths.

Sorry, I don't see that. I spent some time with the Fit, trying hard to like it, but it's just a sea of grey plastic with an H on the hood. Shame on you for using the Metro and the Aveo in the same sentence: that's harsh and unfounded. The 'new' Fit I have not seen yet, but then GM has the 'new' small car slotted between the Aveo and Cobalt coming out late next year, so the race is getting very interesting. It will be nice to see GM slot the Aveo a couple grand under the Fit and the new subcompact head to head: a great one-two punch, I'd say.

I've driven the '09 5 door. The ecotec engine makes a difference. GM is claiming 9% fuel improvement. It's no rocket, but the horsepower increase is noticeable. Work has been done on the NVH aspect, too: bigger alternator, stuff like that. The interior is completely new on the 5 door, more derivative on the sedan. The Aveo finally has GM DNA: OnStar, XM radio and the ecotec motor. It makes the Yaris look sick(er), and when driven next to the Fit, is a very strong contender. If you're used to a 6 cylinder, it will be a disapppointment, but for a microcar it is not an unpleasant experience.

The original Aveo was just that - a Daewoo. The '09 has much more GM in its DNA, including an ecotec engine (finally.) Having driven the Fit and the new Aveo5, I'd say they were about equal and the price makes the Fit obsolete.

.... I am an analyst for a large mult-national importer of Dutch Tulips.

Arabic proverb: "A falling camel attracts many knives."

I think the locomotive plant is near London, Ontario, which is about a 2 hour drive from here. I've been to Columbus before. You don't want to bend over to pick up the soap in the showers at the Y downtown there - trust me! :AH-HA_wink:

Lotsa small town boys on this site. Downtown Toronto is my current home: thinks of itself as the Center of the Known Universe. I don't agree. Maybe just the Milky Way pivots with Toronto as its axis. Currently, Toronto has not met a 50 or even 70 story condo it doesn't like. Look for the automobile to be banned or taxed out of existence in the next 4 or 5 years. Or maybe the traffic will get so bad that only bicycles and skateboards will be able to get around. There are current plans to turn Toronto's only downtown expressway (the Gardiner) into a bicycle path or tomato garden: council is debating the merits of both. The Iroquis Nation also has a claim on Toronto, so it is entirely possible that the entire city is going to be merely wished away in the ultimate form of prostration. Currently, our Prime Minister is issuing an apology and 50 Hail Mary's with the hopes of saving the city. Although I was born here (I am in the Guiness Book of World Records as the Last Living Torontonian who was actually born in this city), I grew up in Vancouver, which is The Center of the Known Universe. My parents moved us back to Ontario in '71. I am currently suing them for mental hardship. I have moved around a lot since; I've lived in many small towns in southern Ontario. I moved to Toronto in '96 when my parole was up. As Toronto's Last Born, I will have a booth at the 2010 Aboriginal Olympics in Vancouver. Domestic cars are nearly extinct in this city. They are thinking of building a museum. Rosedale (the richest neighborhood in Canada) has recently declared that only Lexi or BMWs in black or dark grey are permissable within their borders. Servants, butlers and nannies will be transported within Rosedale by hybrid buses only. The Toronto Star has built a summer home for Katsuaki Watanabe, President of Toyota Motors Corporation, in nearby Halton Hills so that he can be closer to the newspaper so it can kiss his ass.

Chrysler was down 7.6% in July; up 2.4% for the year. They are barely holding onto 2nd place in the sales race. Ford is in free-fall here: down 13.8% for July; 5.4% for the year. GM is holding onto 22% market share by its fingernails. go to www.desrosiers.com and click on monthly sales. Of course, those numbers are national. I am told that the Toronto area is down double digits, no doubt to all the job losses going on around here.

In rural areas, these type of buses will stop and drop off passengers at will. Security searches are not always practical. In developing news, it seems the attacker may have had some connection to the victim after all. He was seen speaking with a female co-worker of the victim at the front of the bus and they were seen outside during a rest stop having a smoke together. Initial reports are always speculative and tend to run toward worst case scenarios. This coud turn out to be a love spat or some other twist we haven't heard about yet. He may have intended to stab the victim and then run, but with tensions run high, the victim fighting back and pandemonium on the bus, the attacker may have gone overboard. I am not a violent person, but I've seen close up what happens in a violent situation: once the andrenalin kicks in, a sort of blood-lust takes over. We've all seen it in Hollywood action flicks. Maybe once he realized he was trapped, he did go beserk in frustration. Who knows. We weren't there and I am sure many of the witnesses exaggerate their story to be seen or heard on camera.

C'mon, you're exaggerating: FIVE more Canadians bought cars last month.

There is a $6,200 cash credit on the Uplander shorty. I just delivered a loaded one (tint, remote starter, cruise) for $20k, including our outrageous 13% combined taxes! There were spy shots of the new minivan posted on a thread here a month or so back. GM told us at a meeting in February that this vehicle will be here by next summer at the latest.

Honda builds a lot of vehicles in Canada. With our expensive dollar, their bottom line may not look so pretty in another couple quarters.

The trouble is, every time any debate involves you, it turns into a slug-fest and name calling. You bring out your your resume (which can be whatever you choose it to be) and use it to beat others with an opinon different than yours. Some people are easily intimidated when a poster breaks out the thesaurus - I am not one of them. Do you know what MY resume is? No. Because I haven't said what it is. What did I take in University? Curious? I am 47, which gives me a wealth of life experience to back up my assertions. You don't see me going around knocking the 20 year olds on this site just because they have their own ideas, do you? My mother is a retired CA and taught me plenty. I don't blame Japan Inc. for GM's woes: I blame Washington and Ottawa for not seeing that it is NOT a level playing field. Of course Toyota and friends are going to accept whatever help their government hands them. I don't chime in about what GM should or should not do in Europe because a) I don't know Europe and b) I don't care. If GM and/or Ford do go bankrupt here or get 'bought' out, YOU should care because Japan Inc is not going to have the same interests at heart with respect to their European holding/heritage etc. as Ford and GM do. I see the same type of polarized debates on some of the political forums I am on. The social engineers immediately cry 'racist', 'bigot,' 'seal killer' whenever someone in their midst disagrees with them. They are too obtuse to realize how it seriously undermines their position with the 'undecideds.' Frankly, from where I sit, GM and Ford's plight mirror exactly what is wrong with our entire Western Civilization. No, I do not think I am overstating the case. We in the West must learn to reap the whirlwind of global trade and protectionism or we will be consumed by it. Violence (or aggression) is the last refuge of the incompetent. Great quote. It gets more profound with age.

No. There will be a Canada only 2009 Uplander (basically a warmed over '08) and dealers are ordering 150+ of them to last us until 2nd quarter '09 when a minivan replacement is coming. As I have stated before, GM should have reacted a little quicker with their hybrids and minivan replacement. We have been paying $5 a gallon for more than a year. The F-150 and Tahoe have never enjoyed the same relative sales in Canada as in the States. Everything costs more here, which is why the Cobalt and Uplander sell so well - value means a lot when you are paying the highest insurance rates in North Americe and 30% more for gas than our cousins across the border. What has happened in Canada years ago is now happening in the States. $4 a gallon is a distant memory around here.

Try $10k less than a Sienna. The Sienna is $30k +. Currently, the Uplander SWB is $17k and rumored to be dropping another $2-3k soon. :AH-HA_wink: I would not put the Sienna/Odyssey in the same league as the Uplander, but for GAWD's sake it's cheaper than a HHR! If you've got 4 screaming brats and a mortgage, the Uplander is too good a deal to pass up.

Well, at least we agree on one thing.

By the time a talking head appears on CNN business news to tell you what to buy or not to buy the ship has already left the dock. You gotta do your own research.