CARBIZ

"Well lets start with the Vega and say it ended around the same time as the Aztek/Cavalier, hmmm 1970's-2000's would be ahh about 30 years. 30 years of: Vega, Chevette, Cavalier, Sunbird, Achieva, Cutlass Calais, Skylark, Corsica, Grand Am, Cadillac V8/6/4, Minivans (Olds/Pont/Chev) with bad crash test rating, bad intake manifolds on many V6 cars (3.8 Series II anyone) Quad 4 engines with blown heads, 5.0L V8s (mid-late 80's) that burned oil, diesel engines that were famous for sucking, the list can go on and on. Much of GM's problem stems from the basic fact that GM let its reputation fall apart over 30 years of offering poor products. People expected the best from cars that wore the "Mark of Excellence". BTW: Was it you and I who had the disagreement a few months back when posting about Hummers future? Who ever it was I called for the sale of Hummer then, and was bashed for it, but that now seems to be the best idea out of GM in a while (dump Hummer) I was right about that, and I'm right about this, GM needs to overcome the reputation it made for itself. At one time there were no Toyotas or Hondas in America. But due to people being dissatisfied with the offerings of the big 3 they went to the japs. Now look, seems like GM might be a foreign car in its own country soon if things don't keep moving forward 9no pun intended)." I sneer at the Hummer as much as I do the SmartCar. They are both silly vehicles for silly people. Dumping Hummer would be good for GM's 'green' image, IMO. No tears from me there. As we have beaten to death here before, the '80s are best forgotten by ALL the manufacturers. Or do you see any Tercels or Datsuns on the road in your neighborhood? Statistically, GM had the opportunity to piss off 5 million people a year in the '80s and Honda not even 20% of that, so clearly GM would have more issues to deal with. Honda and Toyota built maybe 15 models between them in the '80s, so how hard could it have been to juggle that many balls? Compare a '85 Tercel to a '85 J-car and you'd see more levels of complexity (a/c, automatic, for example) to go wrong in the Cavalier than the bare bones Tercel. I worked in the auto parts business in the early '80s and saw a lot of Datsuns and 1st generation Civics on the hoists back then. The Aztek/Cavalier were victims of cutting corners. They were not 'bad' vehicles in of themselves. Not in the same league as the 8/6/4 problems GM had in the early '80s or the V6 coking problems Toyota had in the '90s. If I buy 10 apples and 2 have worms, while you buy 5 oranges and 1 is rotten, who has purchased the 'worst' fruit? I could go around saying there are twice as many bad apples as there are oranges and perceptually I would be correct, but statistically I would be wrong.

Are people aware of how these tests are done? Do you realize they are done in a laboratory on a 2 wheel dynamometer? The argument goes that the only way they can be 'fair' is to standardize the tests in the lab, mathematically adjusting for aerodynamis, curb weight, etc. However, the car being tested is never actually driven. It is all 'simulated.' Well, isn't that special? I suppose they simulate for your 250 lb mother in law in the back seat, the idiot that just cut you off at the last intersection and that you are now chasing down, plus the twice this week you have been late for work and gunned it all the way! I would like to 'simulate' my tax payments to Infernal Revenue and see how far that gets me! Sorry, but for many, many people, who do not drive in Happy Valley, cars like the Civic are going to see their 'real world' numbers take a big dive, while engines with more torque and a flatter torque curve, like the ecotecs, will see their real numbers drop much less precipitously. How else would one explain why I routinely got better gas mileage (tested myself by filling several tanks and doing the calculations myself) in the last generation Malibu (2.2, 4 spd auto) than the Cobalt (same engine) or Optra? I'm barely averaging 27 mpg (Imp. gallons) with my Optra 5, but I used to get 29 or more with the Malibu. If you beat on a 1.6 litre engine like a V6, you'll be shocked at the horrible mileage you actually get! Since 90% of the vehicles in North America are sold with automatics, and since many Japanese small cars are absolutely anemic with said automatic (they are, after all, designed for the Rest of the World, not us), it is the real world with the Cobalt, for example, against the real world with the Civic and I warrant you won't find the actual numbers all that much different. In the grand scheme of things, what would 1 or 2 mpg cost the 'average' driver in a month anyway? $12 a month? We're going to see a lot more 'hysteria' over fuel mileage, but at the end of it all, even at $5.50 a gallon, I am only spending about $40 a month more than I did a year ago. So I skip my morning coffee a couple times a week. Big deal.

I've heard some behind the scenes lobbying is going on in Washington so that vehicles like the Volt will qualify for $5,000 eco rebates. Although that isn't ideal, it certainly would help vehicles like the Volt become more affordable. I personally don't think ANY of the hybrids are currently worth the extra money, but they are constantly improving and we have to start somewhere. Since so much of the mid-west's electricity is coal-fired, the 'green' factor of these vehicles is questionable at best. At $5 and $6 a gallon, hybrids make a lot of sense, but I suspect oil prices are going to sag back to $100 or less in the next several months. Although I resent having to pay a 'speculator' premium on oil at this time, if this proves to be the tipping point to get some serious societal changes in North America over the long term, then I will graciously tolerate high oil prices for now. We are hearing so much information and disinformation about the Volt. I don't think GM ever believed bringing this vehicle to market would be easy, but perhaps the shock therapy will be good for the company. Provided it lasts long enough to produce it.

Tell that to management. Places that used to stock 400 vehicles on the lot now only have 50 or 60. Dealer trading is a way of life now. I've traded more cars this year than I did in the past 2. Trouble is, if you have NO inventory, then there isn't anything to even test drive. For example, I have previous clients who want to drive a 5 spd HHR (none around). I had clients yesterday who wanted a base reg. box 4WD Silverado; there is 1 within 100 miles of here - fat chance of getting that one in a trade! I read today that dealers in the States are screaming for incentives to unload unwanted pickups - we don't have any. We had 100 cancelled on an order 2 months ago! We haven't had a Colorado on the lot for 2 months. Ford, Chrysler and Nissan are giving cars away around here, but we don't have any inventory to worry about and GM is staying very low key. I suspect the numbers for GM in Canada are going to be very, very ugly for 2008, at least for the first half. Maybe 2009 inventory will be better.

Wall St. is far too short-sighted! They are only worried about the next couple quarters, not the next quarter century. Greed and selfishness are the norm. Japan Inc has always looked at the next quarter century. It takes a force of nature like Lutz to get Wall St. to change its way of thinking. This is one of the biggest reasons why America is falling flat on its face. I watched a show on TV last night about the Iraq invasion: Bush gave planners 2 months to plan for the occupation. Truman had 2 years to plan the occupation of Japan. Washington and Wall Street are very, very short sighted. We are all going to pay for that lack of vision.

Thank God I'm gay: I don't have to put up with that crap!

THIRTY YEARS? Which 30? 1975-2005? 1965-1995? I am glad you aren't running a company! Maybe, it can be argued GM built vanilla cars for 15 or so years (I'd pick 1980-1995 as a rough era), but when placed against the backdrop of what else was being built out there, they aren't all that bad. Look, the fact of the matter is that GM grew fat and bloated in the '80s. I don't think anyone denies that. Instead of surging ahead with their product leadership of the '60s and '70s, the Board decided to give out fat dividends and chase dead end technologies, like all the robots Smith ordered up. With the bean counters firmly in control, GM was run by a bunch of paper pushers just as Japan Inc and Stuttgart wound up for their final assault on Fortress America. In retrospect, I doubt there is much GM or Ford could have done to arrest the market share slide of the past 20 years - in light of how good the competition has gotten, Detroit's dominance was bound to end. What could have been altered was GM's lack of profitablity. If they had adopted world platforms in the '90s, they would be better positioned to weather the U.S. downturn. The biggest trouble with GM (and Ford) is that Detroit is answerable to Wallstreet. Honda is not. Wallstreet is calling the shots, just as they are f$#king everyone on oil futures right now. If anybody in marketing or design had pushed for a hybrid in 1995 when GM was selling every truck it could build, for sure that executive would have lost his/her job. It isn't like GM didn't have green technology. Half the buses in Toronto are built by GM and they are hybrids. The business model was not there in '95. By 2005 it was, and clearly Lutz saw that, and has been working on that for a few years, or do you think the Volt happened over night? As I said in another thread, GM has shortened its product cycle by half: 15 years in some cases to 6 or 7. We know GM should never have allowed that to happen, but those most responsible for the '80s and '90s slide are gone. Those in charge now have only been so for 5-7 years, and to turn a ship the size of GM around in that short a period of time is nothing short of a miracle. The mortgage fiasco and oil ripoff is not GM's fault. It is extremely unfortunate that this is happening now, at such a critical period in GM's turn around. Personally, the more I read about what is happening in the oil futures market, I am getting pretty pissed off. Could this be the final nail in its coffin? Perhaps. I guess it all depends on how much cash GM burns up before the Volt and other cars arrive.

Jerry raises all the issues that everyone already knows about. He mentions the Volt and the Cobalt replacement, but fails to mention that a new engine (in production NOW, not next year) in the Aveo addresses its major shortcoming. GM is doing a lot of things right, but so is everyone else. That is the major issue here. Every single product cycle GM has has been shortened by several years. The pickups used to be 15 year cycles; now they are 7. The Cavalier was 11 years; the Cobalt wil be replaced in 5. The S-10 went 22 years by my count; the Colorado is slated for replacement in '10 after 7 model years. I could go on, but I think you get the point. The fact is, GM is still living down its mistakes from the '80s and early '90s, not from bad things it is doing now. Wagoner inherited a big mess. He was in Brazil from '81 to '92, for Gawd's sake! Brazil is one of the few shining stars GM has, and that is largely thanks to Rick. Look at the funk GM was in when he came to Detroit in '92. He has actually only been in charge since '98 more or less. If you look at the seeds of destruction (market share slide), they started in the mid '90s. Is there a correlation between that and Hyundai finally coming out with decent vehicles? Or the fact Toyota and Nissan started getting serious about trucks? The Japanese Big 5 only built a narrow selection of small cars and trucks in the '80s. In the '90s, they all simultaneously went full line (doesn't that make you wonder, too?) Even BMW and Mercedes built ugly, funny cars until the early '80s. If the Board decides to get rid of Wagoner and his cronies, it will be more about optics than about actually getting things done.

You just keep comin' back to that,don't you? Trust me, I drive Cobalts all the time and I've driven the Civic more than once. They are both equally quiet, or noisy, depending on your point of view. Since the Cobalt has more available power in a broader range of RPM, odds are for most people the Cobalt would be quieter, but that would vary according to one's driving habits. The Cobalt may have its shortcomings, but noise is not one of them. None of these small 4 bangers would be considered 'quiet.'

We've had this for 6 months. The results are mixed. Don't expect the Vibe to be included. GM needs a targeted, focused marketing campaign, not more giveaways.

Some of the stories coming out of Afghanistan by the Canadian military are illuminating. Every night, our soldiers observe a line of boys forming outside the police station. A few of the Afghani cops come out, make their selection and take several of the boys inside. Officially, they are doing petty office work, filing, etc., but unofficially they are providing sexual services. A co-worker I used to work with who was from Pakistan also said pretty much the same thing. Officially, homosexual acts are condemned in Muslim countries; however, in a society where every woman must be a virgin to get married, where are men going to get their 'kicks?' There's a ton of hypocrisy out there, but I guess to them, giving a 14 year old up the butt is not considered a 'homosexual act.' Besides, many of the Middle Eastern gays end up here as 'refugees.' I've met more than my fair share of hot Middle Eastern guys over the years. :AH-HA_wink: Of course, none of their families know about them!

Most people have better things to do. If you live in a condo, where are you supposed to work on your 'beater?' My stepfather used to use duct tape and spit to hold our old cars together, but 90% of the people today wouldn't know which end of the wrench to hold. And if you can find a power window motor or regulator for $15, plus the gas and time to go to the wreckers, remove it and take it home, then you are doing very, very well.

Sorry, I forget the source, whether it was the WSJ or the New York Times, but one of them drove the Tahoe hybrid and it was rivalling the 4 cylinder Camry for gas mileage. GM cites at least a 25% improvement in gas mileage over the conventional truck. For someone who actually uses their truck (as opposed to the posers), this could amount to significant fuel savings over the life of the vehicle. What GM is doing with the Oshawa plant is pure brinkmanship, nothing more, nothing less. The union gloated they 'gave up nothing' on their contract and now both Ottawa and Queen's Park are at Oshawa's door with promises of cash. Seems like a smart business move to me. Honda can do it in Alliston and Toyota in Woodstock, so why would GM be any different?

You do realize, of course, that the current Civic came out a year after the Cobalt. If GM is guilty of anything, it is of not aiming far enough ahead. The Cobalt was superior to the last Civic and holds its own in many areas against the current Civic. This is, of course, why the Cobalt is being replaced after 5 model years, rather than 11 like the Cavalier. For someone who drives 11 year old beaters, you get pretty critical about cars that don't meet up to your standards. People scoff at $3k, but if your wife was pregnant and you needed a reliable 4 door that was decent on gas, would you give up $40 a month on a payment, plus higher insurance, etc. just to drive a vehicle that some consider to be 'world class?' Lutz did not have a lot of say in the current Cobalt. Let's just see where the new one sits.

More cars today are junked because all the toys are nickel and diming the owners, not major engine or transmission repairs. All these heated seats, power this, power that, are costly to fix when they stop working and eventually the owner gives up fixing the little things and trades the car in for $500. Mechanically, most cars will last 8-10 years quite easily, but $400 to repair a power window or $250 for an ABS sensor adds up.

Well, that's the point: gay people tend to go through different 'phases' in their comfort level with who they are. For a lot of younger gay people (or older ones who have been closetted all their life), the Pride Parade is a chance to feel empowerment. When Toronto had its first big Parade ('81), I was in the Parade itself and shouted myself hoarse. It was just a great feeling of inclusion. I don't mind those who go over the top. For the most part, the straight people watching understand people are just having fun. Besides, it's not like people are shooting each other! A little nudity never hurt anyone. I had a good laugh about 10 years ago when a lesbian who looked like an Elvis reject, complete with ductail haircut and leather jacket, came over to give our lesbian friend, who was topless, $h! for being topless and giving 'us' a bad name. I thought, look at the pot calling the kettle black! A topless dyke (even though she was fat and gross) is less offensive to me than a woman who looks like a man, but c'est la vie! Now that Toronto's Pride attracts more than a million people, it has grown too large and that is a bit of a turn off for me. Plus, all the corporate sponsorship is turning it into one big billboard. I prefered the smaller, more intimate Pride Days in the early '80s.

I want the number of your drug dealer, because you is smokin some good weed. We had our requisite 4 hours of sun yesterday, followed by rain all night, and now it is fog and 67 degrees. Summer? Looks like it is going to be like this all week. We haven't had a full day of sun in 2 weeks! Have you seen how high Lake Ontario is this late in June?

Getting 3 month oil and filter changes may seem like cheap insurance, but I think the point is that if you multiply that by 100 million vehicles, that is a lot of oil and a lot of filters that end up in the landfill. Five Canadian winters may seem like a long time before a transmission flush, but I suspect for 75% of the driving public, their cars don't see north of 70 mph, nor get stressed beyond 0-60 in 12 seconds - well below their vehicle's design capabilities. Common sense should always prevail. I am tough on my cars so I pretty much stick to a 4 or 5 month oil change schedule, even though my mileage is very low.

Shopping for a Civic on a GM fansite. How the irony is lost on so many people.

I don't see why GM figures it would build so few of the hybrids. If they can figure out how to get the price down (and not gouge Canadians so much), they should be able to sell 5k hybrids in Canada, let alone south of the border. Who wouldn't want a pickup truck that gets 30 mpg?

This week marks a milestone of sorts for me: thirty years ago I left home (I was 17), moved to the Big Bad City and went to a gay bar for the first time. Anita Bryant was railing against fags in Florida, the Toronto Sun hated us, and I barely spoke to my parents. Well, 30 years have passed. Is Anita Bryant still alive? Over a million people are expected at Toronto's Gay Pride this coming weekend. Gay people can get married in many countries (and divorced, too, I suppose.) My father is long dead and, well, I still don't speak to my mother. (Well, she did by a CR-V, y'know. ) The Toronto Sun now loves us. Publicly, at least, most accredited media won't disparage gay people, that is progress. Times can change. It never ceases to amaze me the dichotomy that is America. For example, most polls in Europe and Canada, put church attendance in declining numbers somewhere around 30%, America's folk still have 50-60% church membership. For a country that can be so enlightened and can produce so much innovation, America can also be so full of hate and ignorance. I am not as militant as I once was. Kissing my boyfriend on a crowded subway in 1978 was a blast; now, it is boring. I've always had two minds about our fight to become 'normal,' because I don't believe we are 'normal.' I like being different. It gives me a fresh perspective on the world. I don't see it through the same lens as do most people. I don't feel the compulsion in my gonads to propogate; I use them for something else. :AH-HA_wink: I fight for what is right because it is right, not because I am worried about my children's future. My actions are more selfless, IMO. The time will come when being gay and being a student in highschool will be no big deal. You will ask a person of the same sex to go to the prom and he or she will accept or decline based on whether they like you or not and not freak out. In many respects, I suspect something will be lost, but I guess that is progress, too.

My HP laptop has about the same specs as yours. Vista has been fine with me. I upgraded to get the original discs with Vista and I paid for MS 1Care to be loaded. Even though Norton on my old computer was fine, I am suspicious about software companies deliberately sabotaging each other's programs so I went all Microsoft so there would be no doubt.

RAIN? We can't seem to get through an entire day without it! It actually hailed on Wednesday! Temperatures have been down about 20 degrees (F) below normal for the past week or so. We had one gawdawful burst of summer 2 weeks ago that lasted about 5 days (temperatures well over 100) but rain and cold since. I've never seen such happy grass!

OH, hush. Don't you act all surprised!