CARBIZ

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Nobody did convertibles like Chrysler in the '80s. When the LeBaron coupes came out in '86 or '87, I covetted one of those, but the Shadow ES was in my budget, alas.

I suspect this is a run up to Dion's carbon tax plan, whereupon he will want an arm and a leg instead.

In the dying days of the last dealership I worked at, we had a '04 Jetta on the lot for the same price as a (daily rental) '07 G6 6 cylinder sedan. Same price! One had half the warranty intact; the other had none. One was a 6 and one was a 4 cylinder. I tried to drive both with an open mind, but I just could not see why anyone would pay the extra money for the Jetta, especially when VW has perennially sat on the lower rungs of all of JD Powers quality rankings, including the latest one. The Germans seem to do that touchy, touchy, feely plastic better than anyone else, but does that automatically make it a superior car? Even if one takes quality reports with a grain of salt, like I do, you have to wonder why VW more than any other company has always dwindled at the bottom of the ratings. Even Hyundai has climbed them! Talk about perception over reality. GM and Ford are trying to live down pereceived injustices they commited decades ago, while VW is still living off the afterglow of the Beetle that they stopped making 30 years ago. Unless you want to become on a first name basis with your mechanic (and maybe make him godfather to your children), do not buy a VW.

And you've driven the '09 already, have you?

I could never be a teacher. I'd walk into class one day with an Uzi and kill 'em all. Parents just don't back teachers up enough any more. And Stang, how about my sister: she used to teach electricians! Now there's a thankless job! Now she is a site inspector and gets to disconnect people's power. Look at it on the bright side, Paolino, you've got 4 weeks to drink yourself into a stuper, then 4 weeks to sober up before repeating all over again.

Since 80% of the driver's out there don't recognize signs, this may be an improvement. Twice today while out in a Corvette (demo!!!) we were nearly cut off twice by people who came to a rolling stop at an intersection. What they thought they could outrun a Vette????

The same people who think 'insiders' like Wagoner couldn't sell ice in a Casbah are the same people who think elections are decided by the electorate. The political process and the pressure cooker in big business are one and the same. You have to be a scrapper and a fighter to get to the top, whether it's the Republican party or GM.

I think one major difference between the Excited States and Canada with respect to car shopping is that invoice pricing has become meaningless down there. Here, we still negotiate from sticker and there are very few 'holdbacks' and other such crap. In the U.S., because an entire industry has popped up around providing 'invoice pricing,' the term has become meaningless. From where I sit, it is just another way to screw the salespeople out of a honest living, because they get paid on 'gross' and if the dealer is eager to give it up, then you know the dealer is getting paid some other way and they keep the salespeople out of the loop, because we are too eager to make friends with our customers and spill trade secrets. :AH-HA_wink: You'd never buy a Malibu for $600 over invoice here, so what does that term mean, really?

The car is reliable. We have not had any huge recalls on it. Our service bays are not full of them. Customers are quite happy with their purchase. It is put together very well. (Fit, finish, etc.) Edmunds.com, who actually does have intelligent things to say about cars over all, calls it the MOST affordable car to drive, even taking into account trade in values. This is a Chevrolet, not a Buick or Cadillac. These people are on a budget. Someone making $75k a year is not going to look at the Fit or Aveo; Mini, maybe. Nobody is going to compare this car to a Camry! Nobody who wants a fast or fun car is going to look at any of these vehicles! Judge this car for what it is, what it is expected to do and how it does it. Nothing more, nothing less. GM needed this car in '03 and got it relatively cheaply from Daewoo. Now that the truck bubble is bursting, GM is ready with 2 replacements for the '09 calender year that will ensure GM stays ahead of the curve. The Aveo has not withered on the vine for 10 years like the Cavalier did. The '09 refresh is just in time to take us through the painful next several months until the 'segment killer' comes out in 2nd quarter '09. :AH-HA_wink: Sales on this thing are bursting. We cannot keep them in stock. Let's just say that we agree you don't like this car and won't be caught dead in one. I can live with that.

We can't give this truck away around here. The TB is one vehicle I won't be sad to see go. I will defend the Aveo, Cobalt, Impala - even the Colorado, but the TB should have been gutted 2 or 3 years ago. It is just an embarassment. Even 0 financing for 72 months can't entice people around here.

The coupes should already be around, no? The sedans, I am not sure. We aren't ordering any. Insurance and gas prices are way too high in Toronto. Nobody under 30 can afford to drive these things, even with a $350 lease payment.

Things must be quite different in your state. The Malibu leases for about $30-40 a month LESS than a similarly equipped Accord around here. When you are saying zero down, are you including all the 'hidden' fees and stuff? Honda advertises zero down leases here, too, but then want a couple grand up front once you whip out the credit card.

GM has the new 'game changer' subcompact coming in 2nd quarter '09. The 1.4 turbo is going to do just that. In the meantime, the refresh on the '09 Aveo is plenty good. The ride and handling, even the fuel mileage, are equal or better than the Yaris. I've driven both recently, and there is no contest. The Versa and Fit are both good vehicles, no question of that. Arguably, they are noticeably better than the '08 Aveo, but we are splitting hairs. They are both more expensive than the Aveo. The '09 improvements put the Aveo back in contention again and once the new subcompact hits next year, both Honda and Nissan will have to go back to the drawing board. Toyota does not even try. The Yaris is such a POS, but it has that amazing T on the front so people will buy it anyway. That's the attitude GM had 10 years ago, too. GM has done their homework well with this particular car. I am 6'2" and people are flabbergasted when I hop in the back behind a prospect and show them how much head room and leg room I have. There is a shocking amount of room in these vehicles. The ecotec upgrades to the '09 put the Aveo back with the pack. $5 a gallon makes this car a contender. Sales have shot up this year in Canada, over 23%, I am told for this car. Anyway, this is all . Most people on C&G have made it quite clear they wouldn't be caught dead in an Aveo anyway, but we'll see about attitudes when YOU guys hit $5.50 a gallon.

Like many things car related, people are playing revisionist history here. I lived the '80s. My first new vehicle was a '82 Dodge Rampage, followed by a '87 Shadow ES (turbo and stick). There are a lot of forgettable vehicles from that era. Chrysler's were no better or no worse. I think the entire era from about '77 to '87 would best be forgotten. Very few cars stand out. I remember the Caravelle. The salesman who sold me the '87 Shadow wanted me to buy a '90 Dynasty, which was a stretched version of the K-car. Since I'd had so many troubles with the Shadow (it spent more time going up and down the hoist at the dealership than it did going forward on the road, I used to joke), I was turned off Chrysler for my next purchase. Looking back, most of my troubles were with the dealer in the small town where I used to live. They couldn't fix anything right the first time. So, I went over to GM in '91 with my Caprice and never looked back. But that does not mean I will go around bad mouthing Chrysler because of a couple bad experiences in the '80s. Unlike some people, I understand all manufacturers have improved their quality since the '80s, including Chrysler.

Whatever you do, do it NOW. Good habits (as well as bad) are formed in your early twenties. Get into some form of diet or exercise regimen when Mother Nature still smiles upon you, even though you clearly DON'T need it yet. That way, when you get to, ahem, 29, for example, and Mother Nature decides she has no use for you, you will be able to soldier on without her - well into your, ahem, forties. And beyond.

Next Wednesday.

Go to www.insidercow.com and type in GM to see who has been buying what. Very interesting. Seems like Mr. Wagoner is putting his money where his mouth is. Speaking of which, try typing in one of the oil companies and see what their execs are up to. That is even more interesting!

July 29

I am sure you have to be able to prove you've owned the vehicle for X amount of years, first. Just like GM has the Car Heaven program here in Canada ($750 for any old beater more than 13 years old, regardless of condition), you have to be the owner for a minimum of 6 months to qualify. Toyota is many things, but stupid is not one of them.

I am glad to see you shopping with an open mind and heart. It sounds to me like you are having a lot of that 'left brain-right brain' tug of war, like I always do when I buy a car. Like when I test drove a new '91 Grand Caravan and Previa, loved the Thunderbird SC, but bought a '91 Caprice wagon!

At the last dealership I was at, we were host to a J-car club that would have a show & shine at our dealership every year. Some of these kids were whacked. I mean, who puts gull-wing doors on a '96 Cavalier? One young lady had a $5k fucia paint job on her Cavalier! There were a few offerings from the '80s, but our notorious salt problem in Ontario has killed nearly all vehicles from the '80s by now. The K-car did more than save Chrysler, it was a car of its time. I worked at a major hotel in '81 and I remember talking to a cabbie who had just put a Reliant on the road as a cab. He loved it. He loved the gas mileage, he loved the leg room for his customers, he loved the trunk. It was a great car for its time. And you know, if looked after, they proved to be fairly hardy, too (other than the sporadic gasket problems the hoary old 2.2 was known for!) They were dirt cheap to buy, dirt cheap to run - even the timing belt could be changed by a 5 year old. Alas, Chrysler milked it too long and by the late '80s it had been surpassed by quite a few more 'world class' vehicles.

Five years ago, there was no business model for the Corsa. Now that the $US is worth about as much as toilet paper, a better case can be made. Of course, I suppose it is Wagoner's fault that he didn't forsee the 40% drop in the $US! Brazilian made Corsas are no great shakes, so be careful what you wish for. Euro-made Corsas may make sense now, but by the time the money is spent (crash tests and all that other BS) where will the dollar be then? It was a safe bet 5 years ago and continues to be a safe bet to have the cars made in Korea, or Mexico which is where production is going for '09. I have no trouble with 'good enough.' Most people looking at the Fit and Aveo are very, very price sensitive (otherwise, they would be looking at Civics), so I'll take the $30 a month, thanks. The '09 improvements are significant, and just in time! Styling is subjective - like any of the contenders in this category are 'lookers!' The Mini is the only good looking car in this pack, but then it is twice the price. Sales of the Aveo are way up thise year, so clearly GM is doing something right.

If you want a 2.4 in the HHR, you'd better hurry. The 2.4 is gone for '09. The 2.2 is going upmarket with about a dozen more horsepower and more refinement added. Personally, I'd wait for the '09 HHR at this point. The improvements are nice. :AH-HA_wink:

People need to drive the '09 Aveo, then weigh in on their comments. The 1.6 litre engine has been overhauled: double variable valve timing, for example. GM is citing a 10% improvement in fuel mileage. I noticed the extra power straight away. Enhancements in the NVH department are noticeable as well. The outside enhancements are not huge, but the interior of the 5 door has been updated. Plus, the vehicle will now have OnStar and XM in the LT model. ABS and side air bags continue to be optional, but they are free flowing. The Yaris does not have standard ABS either. This segment is particularly price sensitive. On some levels, these improvements may only raise the Aveo to the level of other competitors (Versa, Fit to name two), but I've been told the upcoming (unnamed) model next year will blow the doors off the current crop of subcompacts. Blanket remarks that the Aveo is a piece of crap is clearly coming from people who have not spent any time in the vehicle. Even the '08 makes the Yaris look bad, and the '09 absolutely shames the Yaris, which I will agree is not saying much, but considering the Aveo is now the 'oldest' of the bunch, it has held up well and the '09 will win over a lot of naysayers. Well, some of them anyway.