Drew Dowdell

Dwight, can you talk about what you think the engine would look like if you swapped out the V8 for the rumored 3.0TT?

The drive chain in a lot of early Toronados was nylon... which is a plastic The gears on cam sprockets are often nylon.

Yeah, NSAP pulled down the front page article when I notified him of the correction. The thread is still there.

The CTS Coupe has a usable back seat, verse the Camaro, I'm sure I could rock it.

LOL @ NOS

Early ones had issues with the timing chain idler pulleys. The pulleys were originally plastic and could split from stress. In typical GM fashion, the engine was killed about 2 years after they got it right and switched the pulleys to steel. After that, change the timing belt at the proper interval and they'd run just as long as any other GM V6.

I replied to their comment section, but they have yet to approve my post.

Do you get much more "GM volume seller" than the Lumina in 1991? It had the TwinCam. The Lumina 2-door, which was also the predecessor to the last Monte Carlo came with the TwinCam option. The W-body Cutlass Supreme sold in droves... almost all with pushrods despite a DOHC option being available. The GP was available with the TC for just a few years and in limited numbers. You want to compare Le Sabre? The V6 Aurora is a superior vehicle in nearly every measurable way, yet the Le Sabre handily out sold it many times over. Even the pricier S/C 3800 Park Ave at $37k easily outsold the Northstar powered Aurora at $34k....and that's a DOHC V8 v. a Pushrod V6. So one of the most famous (by name) of DOHC V8s gets outsold by the engine GM is most harangued for despite being $3k cheaper and in a superior vehicle. The LeSabre outsold Concords, it out sold Avalons, it outsold Grand Marquis... and all had OHC or DOHC. The Intrigue was a superior vehicle to the Regal and Grand Prix in just about every measurable way also... definitely on interior. The "Wide Track" Grand Prix's track is actually about half an inch narrower than the Intrigue's. DOHC and all, the Intrigue $22k base was outsold by the Regal with the same base price, and Grand Prix GT $21k and the Impala $18k. People liked GM's 3800. And for most of the 90s, they preferred it over DOHC options from the same company. In some cases they even preferred it over DOHC options from other companies.

The ATS-V could be powered by Jesus on a pogo stick and it still wouldn't sell in Europe.

GM offered DOHCs first that vastly out powered the imports and no one bought them. None of the issues with the Twincam would have been evident until they started hitting 80,000 miles and people neglected the timing belts, so it's only with hindsight that you even would have known an issue with the Twincam existed. Put them in a Chevy, and people bought the 3.1 pushrod. Put them in the the Cutlass and people bought the 4-cylinder or the 2.8 V6. Off the showroom floor Oldsmobile was selling a V6 that would perform with the SHO of the day without all the hype... and no one bought them. GM offered DOHC in the Saturn LS series... it was roughly equal to the Camry and Accord outputs of the day... the cars even had dent resistant panels... and no one bought them. Most LS series Saturns are 4-cylinders GM offered the 3.5 V6 in the Intrigue, still to this day one of the best W-bodies ever built, that Camry and Accord didn't exceed in power till nearly 6 years later..... and no one bought them. People actively chose the 3800 or the 3400 over all these engines. Lesabre and 88 were the best selling full size family cars for years and years... even after Ford and Chrysler moved their full size offerings over to OHC or DOHC. When given the choice, people chose the 3800 over any DOHC entry from GM. When they wanted a performer, they chose the S/C 3800. It wasn't that GM wasn't offering DOHC... it's that the customers were picking the pushrods.... can you blame GM for keeping them in service so long? If the Lumina or Cutlass engine sales had been flipped to 80% DOHC v 20% Pushrod, as opposed to what happened in reality, we'd not be having this discussion today and the 3.6HF would be in it's 4th or 5th generation. As far as getting there first, GM usually has... and then was ignored by the market.

Lately maybe, but I don't think that is a bad thing as there is still a lot of feeling around for who fits where best. However, Chris is leaving OnStar to start his own consulting firm. I can totally get behind that idea.

Chris was with GM for 13 years.

I dunno, a 2.0 diesel with 258 ft-lb from 1700 - 2500 rpm sounds kinda nice. That's more torque than the non-DI 3.6 V6 at any rpm.

GM had me in their blogger events almost the entire day. If I hadn't brought two other guys with me, nothing else would have been covered.

It's on the Canadian website only as a future model

uh, thanks. I'm the one that took that took that shot and posted it in this thread....

It doesn't have to be GM and it doesn't have to even be a trunk release. When I had a Lucerne rental, I parked in the mall parking lot next to a Subaru. When used the Remote Start, the panic alarm on the Subaru went off. When I pressed remote start again, the Subaru's panic alarm shut back off.... I was able to replicate it again right after, so it wasn't like a proximity thing.

You'd probably fit into the back seat better too. I would totally do a CTS Coupe over a Camaro.