Drew Dowdell

It's a shame GM couldn't sell Saturn as a package with Saab.

The 2.9 diesel that was supposed to go into the CTS for Europe has 406 ft/lb of torque. 406 ft/lb of torque from a 2.9 liter..... imagine what a 3.6 liter would have..... It'd be like strapping a Saturn V rocket to the roof of the G8.

GM - Saturn - Penske deal is DEAD! Today we learned that Penske Automotive Group (PAG) has decided to terminate discussions with General Motors to acquire Saturn. This is very disappointing news and comes after months of hard work by hundreds of dedicated employees and Saturn retailers who tried to make the new Saturn a reality. PAG's announcement explained that their decision was not based on interactions with GM or Saturn retailers; rather it was because of the inability to source new products beyond what it had asked GM to build on contract. As a result of PAG's decision, we will be winding down the Saturn brand and dealership network, in accordance with the wind-down agreements that Saturn dealers recently signed with GM. Pursuant to the terms of those agreements, the wind down process will be determined and communicated shortly. Discussion: GM - Saturn - Penske deal is DEAD!

GM - Saturn - Penske deal is DEAD! Today we learned that Penske Automotive Group (PAG) has decided to terminate discussions with General Motors to acquire Saturn. This is very disappointing news and comes after months of hard work by hundreds of dedicated employees and Saturn retailers who tried to make the new Saturn a reality. PAG's announcement explained that their decision was not based on interactions with GM or Saturn retailers; rather it was because of the inability to source new products beyond what it had asked GM to build on contract. As a result of PAG's decision, we will be winding down the Saturn brand and dealership network, in accordance with the wind-down agreements that Saturn dealers recently signed with GM. Pursuant to the terms of those agreements, the wind down process will be determined and communicated shortly. Saturn customers and owners will continue to be able to purchase and have their vehicles serviced at Saturn retailers during this process. Once the wind down is complete, Saturn owners will still be able to have their vehicles serviced at other GM dealerships. We will be communicating with our customers very soon to explain the next steps in this process. Today's disappointing news comes at a time when we'd hoped for a successful launch of the Saturn brand into a new chapter. We will be working closely with our dealers to ensure Saturn customers are cared for as we transition them to other GM dealers in the months ahead. I'd also like to thank every GM employee and Saturn retailer who worked so hard to try to make this new beginning happen for Saturn. GM - Penske Deal is Dead

a 3.6 liter Duramax in a G8 would fit the bill quite nicely.

I thought the Camaro being sold in the EU was going to get the 2.9litre.

Only if I am trying to diagnose a problem and I'm listening for a sound.

Verano sounds too much like the Suzuki Verona (seriously, took me two tries to NOT type Verona) Encore sounds... too "cheap appliance" or "Hyundai".... but I repeat myself. Wasn't there a Renault or AMC Encore? Edit: Yep! Renault/AMC Encore

At the same time, we should also be more flexible about "the cars we want". We can be stuck in this "Give me a gasoline powered pushrod V8 or give me death!" mentality. Ford is busily proving that there is no supreme need for V8s. Before any of you V8-Or-Die people protest, I'll remind you that most of you would drop trousers for a Buick GNX. I don't car if my next car is a 4 1/2 cylinder hybrid that is fueled with the by-product of puppy dog smiles as long as it's powerful, cheep to fuel, and doesn't fund terrorist countries.

The Equinox (174@4800rpm) has more torque than both the CRV (161@4400rpm) and RAV-4 (172@4000rpm). Laughingly, the RAV-4 is pushing that torque through a 4-speed automatic. While I don't disagree that that Equinox could be lighter, accelleration is clearly not a priority in this market.

See, that's the wrong attitude to take. What you should be thinking (yes, I'm a Democrat, so I can tell you what to think) is, "We should be free to drive what we want even if that means rebuilding our entire fuel infrastructure around an alternative fuel." I fully support your wish to drive whatever you want with however big of an engine you want. What I don't support is your desire to fuel it with whatever you want.

Because even if GM builds a V8 engine and thumbs their nose at CAFE, you won't be able to afford to fuel it. The biggest story that hasn't been in the news lately is that all of the major oil fields are now in steadily increasing decline. The oil producing countries are trying to pump more oil to make up for recession losses, but the oil fields simply aren't producing. Mexico will stop exporting oil around 2014. Even if they found the world's largest untouched reserve tomorrow, that oil wouldn't come online till after Mexico was forced to stop exports.

CAFE will be the least of your worries.

Most of their concerns won't even be on the radar screens of your average CRV/Rogue/RAV-4 driver. I've been driving around a 166hp 4-speed CRV for a while now.... a 182hp 6-speed equinox which also has more torque, would be positively SS like.

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Because it's not GM's fault that you died. Your estate gets to deal with the car.

The $500 is for people who already know they want a GM car and know they aren't going to use the return policy. The return policy is for people who have driven Hondas for the past 20 years and are thinking of trying something new but just aren't sure if they'll like it.

The Camaro is 2 inches longer and 2 inches wider than a Mustang, the Nissan is a 2 seater, and the Genesis can't take a V8. The Camaro weighs just 200lbs more than a roughly equal powered Mustang GT (but the Camaro has DOHC... so it wins ) and 100lbs more than an Infiniti G37 Coupe.

Would a modern designed interior fit in a decidedly retro looking vehicle?

Because then it wouldn't look like a Camaro?

If the Camaro stayed the same size relative to the average sedan on the road, you'd be looking at "Camaro - Imported by SMART". I think the Camaro is best if it remains true to itself instead of worrying about how big the current Deville is.

The original Camaro was 186" in length, just a mere 4 inches shorter than today's Camaro. Weight was 3,500lbs for 1969 Z28 with 290hp. That's just 200lbs less than a 300hp, 3780lb., 2010 Camaro LS. Now, I'll fully admit to never have driven either the 1969 nor 2010, but knowing what I know about the Zeta platform, I'm gonna bet that modern technology more than makes up for the 200lb weight gain and that the 2010 can easily dance with the 1969. A 1976 Camaro Z28 was 195" in length, 5 inches longer than a 2010. It weighed about 3680lbs and put out a fire breathing 165hp from it's 350 (that is actually up 10hp from the '75 model). Even a V6 2010 Camaro being 100lbs heavier would easily lay a 1976 Camaro to waste. By the early '90s weight was back down to a more respectable 3200 for the Z28, but power was still a Miata like 170hp from a 5 liter V8. The 1990 Camaro was still 2 inches longer than a 2010. In 2000, the weight had creeped back up over 3500lbs, but at least now you could get the venerable LT-1 to cope with the extra mass. Length was 3.5 inches longer than the 2010 Camaro. One important thing to note is that even though the 2010 is the second shortest of all of the Camaro body styles, it easily has the longest wheel base which greatly improves handling. Not being a Camaro fan, I just don't see, looking at these numbers, how the new Camaro is that far "out of line" from the original.

Basically, everything the Camaro has never been.

DTSes can have bucket seats and console shift and magnetic ride control if the buyer so chooses. Just because you haven't seen an Aurora with a vinyl top doesn't mean they aren't out there.

guess what he drives.... go on guess! He drives an AURORA!!!