Drew Dowdell

Volume does not equal profit. With the exception of the G8 and Solstice, Pontiac was the "Chevy" outlet for the BPG dealers. I'll agree that's not where they should have been, but that's where they were.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You aren't entitled to your own facts. GM could not have filed Chapter 11 in November without government financing. Period. End. Of. Story. There was no one else who could have financed them through the bankruptcy period. A bankruptcy filing in November without the government would have been Chapter 7.

If the government had done nothing, C&G would be a GM Historical site and nothing more. The Government was the ONLY entity that was able to save GM unless Toyota came in and plunked down the $2 billion cash for all of the common stock..... would you have been happier with that? But above all of that, understand this: THERE CAN BE NO CHAPTER 11 WITHOUT THE GOVERNMENT BEING INVOLVED IN A MAJOR WAY. IF GM went into bankruptcy without the government help, it would be Chapter 7 and everything would have been sold off into nothingness. Guess who'd be buying.... the Chinese.. the Indians.....maybe the Russians.... they're the only ones left with money. The government did this same thing with Chrysler and Chrysler emerged to be a substantially stronger company in just a few short years. The advantage GM has here over Chrysler is that unlike Chrysler 35 years ago, GM has a large portfolio of excellent platforms and products. Go to Ford if you want.... but do it for the right reason. Don't go to Ford because you want to punish GM for trying to save themselves.... you're only exacerbating the problem. Go to Ford because you feel the product is superior. If you buy a Ford even though you think GM has a better product... well then maybe Cheers and Gears isn't the place for you.

Then I misunderstood you. I took you to mean that you wouldn't buy a GM car because of the loan or the government or something like that. That is the primary symptom of $h!ty ass logic flu. I completely understand and support purchase decisions based on product.

The government didn't tell GM to ditch Pontiac. GM's own viability plan... wasn't. It projected losses out to 2014 at least! ANY BANK...or any one with opposable thumbs and a pulse would have declined GM's loan application with that viability plan. OBAMA DID NOT KILL PONTIAC!

Yet another victim of the $h!ty ass logic flu.....

We appear to have $h!ty ass logic flu rapidly spreading around Cheers and Gears. How will GM EVER get better if you won't buy their product!?

That the government gets all this attention from the tinfoil hat brigade for anything they ever do, amazes me. Those same fuel economy regs will hit BMW, Audi and Nissan too. If Cadillac can no longer build a CTS, then the 3-series will have passed on also. The 370Z will be pushing up the daisies right next to the Camaro. The Tundra, F-150, and Silverado will together all rip down the curtain and join the choir invisible! There were NO national banks that were healthy. NONE. About the only organizations that are (relatively) healthy are the credit unions. If the government had done nothing, we'd be a GM historical site and nothing more.

Impala is still selling decent retail... so what if it also goes to police fleets.

apparently, so do C&G users...

Should be resolved. The server we're on had a drive failure over the weekend.

yes

We're not in a free market and haven't been in one for over 100 years. If the government had said that 30 years ago, there'd be no Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, or Jeep. All of you anti-government people really need to put down your Reagen tribute books (because he's the one who made it cool to vilify government) and get over yourselves. Government is NOT the root of all evil. It is not the end of GM. We're not going to be all driving Eco-Trabants. I hope you like your Audi's and Porches built by a company PARTIALLY OWNED BY THE GERMAN STATE OF LOWER SAXONY! France owns about 15% of Renault who owns 49% of Nissan. You people need a hard slap in the face and calm the f@#k down. Edit: This is one of those times I wish I wasn't a mod and we didn't have politics rules so I could really kick the crap out of you people on here. This was a nice, yet unnecessary, tribute thread, ruined by idiot politics.

How would 5k fetch a decent Jetta when not even 20k can...

They are charging out the ASS for Camaro rentals. They've made it part of their Premium collection. FWIW, I've seen Vettes, CTSes, Nissan 350zs, Solstices, Infiniti FX35s, M35s, 3-series, 5-series all available in the Premium collections. Not bad company.

My understanding is May 31st.

3800 S/C powered Impala SS

LSS or older Impala SS

Gotta be. Either that or a Regal GS.

+1 Additionally, even though the G8 wasn't released at the same time as the Commodore, they still had the inclination that it would be sold in the U.S.

Arguably, the only current vehicle that comes close to being a "true" Pontiac would be the Solstice, but even then it uses the corporate Ecotec, the same transmissions as the CTS, the CTS rear end....

You think the federalizing of the largest railroad in the US wasn't highly politicized? The move allowed Conrail to abandon unprofitable lines.... lines that run through congressional districts. The Penn Central was formed from the Pennsylvania Railroad and New York Central railroad. These two behemoths had been in direct competition for well over 100 years. When they merged there was instantly duplicated capacity. The Penn Central was never able to fully merge the two systems. As such the whole network suffered. The Penn Central was considered a run down and out of date. Millions of pensions were at stake when the railroads collapsed. There was a lot of heated debate because we helped France rebuild her rail network after WWII yet we allowed our rail network to fail. It was just a different era... it wasn't less politicized.

you need to post pics of the damage

Here's why I don't mind the UAW owning a large portion of GM. My Great-Grandfather pioneered the idea on a large scale.

Conrail was primarily the Penn Central Railroad that went bankrupt and was taken over by Congress <Conrail is sometimes referred to as Congressional Rail>. It returned to profitability in about 10 years and eventually became the most powerful carrier in the eastern US until it was privatized and sold off in about equal share to the Norfolk Southern and CSX. It's relevant because people keep saying that GM being taken over by the government lead to certain disaster. Conrail is an example of that being untrue. Every time someone posts that the government taking over GM will lead to certain disaster, I will post the Conrail logo. Sure it's annoying, but maybe some people will learn something and expand their minds.