Drew Dowdell

If I can't get a CTS-D... there's my 2008 CTS replacement.

Listening to to that video two things stand out: 1. That doesn't sound like a Northstar start up. Northstars have a very distinct starter sound. I can always tell when a northstar is starting up without having the turn a look at the car. <same goes for honda 4cylinders and GM 3800s and various Fords> 2. the idle does NOT sound like an OHC engine. that's gotta be a pushrod under there.

I don't think anyone in here was defending GM. This is mostly about making fun of the state of Georgia. This post sums it up best.

might want to have a Euro brand in there too... maybe a Passat or Jetta <it's grown a lot in size>

what a bunch of wet rags we have in this forum.

fixed

184Kw = 246 hp 550Nm = 406ft/lbs @ 2,000 rpm! Bring it! :cheering:

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

Sounds neat... but a 455 would not have helped the GTO anymore than putting a 455 Rocket into an Aurora would have helped Olds.

When the previous generation Monaro was running with a M5, I can't imagine there would be many complaints.

A Pontiac dealer is also a Buick dealer and a GMC dealer.

I live in a snow state and lived with RWD only for 3 years prior to purchasing the Avalanche..... and the snow wasn't my reason for purchasing it. Spend the extra $450 for good snow tires.

The original had that same taper.

It's your $30,000. Demand Better.

It's a shame that the DEW98 platform is nearly dead.

I do agree with P-C-S about the GM card points. While I do like both the Aura and Sky, the inability to use my substantial accumulation of GM card point will give me pause.

I'll never expect the G8 as is, to outsell the GP.... even after fleet sales are eliminated. Arent they only planning on importing 50k per year or so?

If Saturn were Olds they would have the dealer network to support the sales expected of them.

Do you ever laugh man? :AH-HA_wink: You'll notice that I included the FWD N-bodies and H-bodies in my scenario.

I think it's a bit hard to judge the sales of Zeta as a whole on a limited production import vehicle.

Unfortunately, I don't think your scenario would have played out the way you'd like it to. What cars were kicking ass and taking names in the late 80s? Taurus Accord Camry Maxima IMHO, what you just described would have looked like this. 1987, GM debuts the new G-bodies. Ford debuts the new Taurus, Chrysler buys AMC/Introduces a K-car. 1988, auto rags rave about the new taurus, mention Camry as a worthy competitor, wonder allowed why GM hasn't jumped on the bandwagon with FWD for family cars. 1989, G-body sales reach their lowest point in 5 years. Ford recarpets every home in Dearborn with carpet made with gold spun from hay. Chrysler introduces another K-car. 1990, GM sales continue to slide, N-bodies are the only bright spot. Ford issues press release. "Neener neener neener". Toyota issues press release "We're coming to get you Ford", Chrysler introduces another K-car. 1991, GM updates the E-bodies, G-bodies finish in last place in all auto rags for the 4th straight year. Auto rags wonder allowed who is steering the GM ship stating "Even Chrysler gets it.", Chrysler introduces another K-car. Toyota's assimilation of the U.S. begins with redesigned Camry. Honda issues press release, "Me too!" 1992, First Iraq war, oil skyrockets. Last year for the E-bodies, G-bodies get a mild MCE. Taurus gets mild MCE and pisses all over G-bodies. Ford wisely discontinues 4-cylinder Taurus. Camry 4-cylinder sales climb. Chrysler introduces a K-car. 1993, GM is now borderline bankrupt. Gets government guaranteed loan, Introduces W-body. Taurus sales plateau. Toyota installs mind control device in every american, free of charge. Chrysler introduces the LH cars/apologizes for K-car. 1994, GM introduces H-bodies. LeSabre/Eighty Eight/Bonneville sales take off. Buyers confused by the similar sized G-body and W-body choose the W-body because Car and Driver told them to. Taurus sales fall, ford blames Toyota's mind control device. Chrysler introduces a LH car. 1995, G-body discontinued after W-body outsells it 5-1. Eighty Eight named best value large family car. Last good year for Ford. Chrysler introduces an LH car. 1996 B-bodies dicontinued, H-bodies set sales records, Tahoe now best selling Chevy after the Cavalier. Ford redesigns Taurus to look like a fish. Parking lots slowly becoming a sea beige Camries and Accords. Chrysler introduces an LH car. 1997, W-body MCE. Motor trend issues proclamation "Pushrods are teh suxors!", w-body sales plummet. Ford rips the carpeting out of every home in Dearborn. Toyota issues press release "All your base are belong to us". Honda issues press release, "Me too!". Chrysler introduces cloud car. 1998, W-body continues to fail to meet sales goals, Chevy selling every Tahoe and Blazer they can make. Ford lops off it's own head. Chrysler ... oh heck, you know the rest. 1999, Olds dies. GM files for bankruptcy protection. Analyst speculate it was because of GM's late entry into the family sized FWD market. Kirk Kerkorkian takes over Chrysler, introduces MCE LH cars. Ford becomes irrelevant. 2000, Mercedes Benz buys General Motors, proclaims "Merger of equals". Buick, Pontiac and Cadillac immediately canceled. The End.

No they wouldn't because Marcia would kill you after the second one.

The S/C 3800 available in oh so many of these W-bodies was upgradeable with something as simple as a S/C pulley swap. There are plenty of performance mods for the 3800 and even some for the 3.4 DOHC. Many of the W-bodies <all?> have fully independent suspensions and the inherently better ride/handling characteristics that accompany such. We poo-poo on 4-speeds today, but a lot of the lower G-bodies were 3-speeds! Again, while I do have my favorites on both platform, waxing poetic about the "good ol' days" of either of these is using selective memory. They were competitive for their day but are completely out classed today.... by GM's own platforms.

I've never understood the love for the G-bodies the W-bodies replaced. Sure there were the Buick GNs and the Hurst Olds, but 97% of the G-bodies sold were "your father's Oldsmobile". I'll admit to a certain love for the final RWD Cutlass coupes... and though I'd never own one, I do admire and respect the GNX... but for the most part these were soft handling, floaty, solid rear axle cars. A 1995 DOHC Cutlass Supreme Coupe would completely pwn a 1985 Cutlass Coupe. A 2007 Monte Carlo SS would wipe the floor with an SS from the 80s. The only G-body that would beat it's modern successor <in a straight line> would be the GNX, and with Lacrosse Super coming, that point might even be debatable. Yeah, the W-bodies are dated.... but going back to the G-bodies, I think some of you have selective memories.......

I'll add, This was the closest any W-body came to seriously challenging the Accord or Camry. Unfortunately had the 3800 at the start, but the 3.5 "shortstar" certainly made up for any perceived deficiency later. Interior was conservative but tasteful...nothing any Camry owner would get upset about. Marketed terribly, but still one of the best and most competitive mid-sizers that GM has built even to this day. Only the Aura has matched it in my opinion. While not exactly a sales failure, it never did as well as GM hoped. Towards the end they were selling for Civic money. Though it shares it's platform with the Pontiac Grand Am, somehow quality seemed higher. To this date <pre-08 CTS> still one of the best efforts from GM in the entry-lux market. More on the softer side of the luxury spectrum this Oldsmobile was direct competition for the ES300 and Infinity I30. This particular model hurts GM in a strange way. While I like the looks of the Lucerne, I prefer the Aurora and even feel that the Aurora's interior was of better design and quality. It should be telling that the base V6 in the Aurora from 2001 still manages to out class the base V6 from a 2006 Lucerne. Again, to this date, still one of the best interiors GM has produced, only to be eclipsed recently by the SRX interior MCE.