Drew Dowdell

Remember when they rated the Hummer poor because people complained about fuel economy? I'm not saying that Hummers were bastions of reliability... but come on... to rate a Hummer poor based on fuel economy is to miss the point entirely.

Talk about cars not people.

On the tire thing. This is what I was referencing. Edmunds accused Ford of a "ringer" in 2012 by putting .... wait for it.... Michelin Pilot Super Sports on an MKZ for the Press Fleet... an addition that allowed the MKZ to beat an M5 through the slalom. However, while it is correct that the MKZ is technically available with them, less than 1% of MKZs came so equipped. So rather than give a realistic view of the car, Lincoln hands the press a Ringer that isn't one based on a technicality. Based on that percentage... it means about 300 MKZs out of the ~34k sold per year are equipped with these tires. So really, the review should have the disclaimer "Results not typical".

Fine, I stand corrected on that irrelevant point. See how easy that is? Do you still try to maintain that Ford got and needed no help?

No... saying that Ford did it on it's own is ignoring evidence to the contrary. I'm not concerned with how many cars Honda sold in C4C... only that Ford got a huge boost from selling 90,000 cars, which is diametrically opposed to "weathered the financial crash on their own". As is the thousands of Focii and Fusions that Uncle Sam bought at basically full price not the same as "Ford got through on their own". Ford weathered the storm because they were actually in enough financial trouble before the meltdown that they mortgaged everything up to and including the name on the door. Not the same as "doing it on their own". Just admit that Ford did require some help and we have no argument here. Irrelevant to my point.

There are three people who are ruining this site for everyone.... making it miserable for even me to visit..... For years I've had a policy of not banning people unless they built up a certain amount of warning points. I am rethinking that policy now.

The government screwed the American tax payer by deciding to sell GM stock when they did. Ford benefited hugely by selling cars to the government that they couldn't sell to the public for MSRP. When is the last time someone paid sticker price for a Focus? Oh... sometime in 2008 and his name was Uncle Sam and he bought many thousands of them. A bailout by any other name is still a bad deal on a Focus. Also... 90,000 Fords were purchased under Cash for Clunkers... second only to Toyota. Sure helps to move cars when Uncle Sam is paying for your incentive program.

Again... that is exactly my point. I'm not saying that there isn't a cost increase to do multiple variations of trucks.... I'm saying that the big three all have roughly the same number of variations. Where GM has to stamp 2 extra fenders, Ford has multiple different bumper setups and actually a greater number of grilles than GM. On the GM's, the interiors are identical with only the trim material (not the trim shape) being different. So even with all of the variants available from all of the above, in GM's case... there is just an extra badge in the mix that sells at a premium.

Ford didn't survive on their own dime. I thought we put that fallacy to bed.

This isn't the first time Lincoln got caught putting ringer tires on a car that you can't order that way....

Because the body panels are largely identical except for a tiny big of metal at the bottom of the headlights. It's two fenders and a hood. The interiors are absolutely identical except for the airbag cover. The trim pieces may be a different material, but that's no different than different materials of the same shape offered on various grades of F-series. Again, no advantage to Ford here. GMC will gladly print extra Denali airbag covers for the average $4,500 markup they get for the effort.

And the reason the 250/2500s are in there is because that's the way Ford counts them. They count F-150/250/350 all as a single model. Then @FordCosworth goes around comparing it to just the Silverado to suit his purpose of trying to elevate Ford.

Actually, the clips and everything are in the same places. You can take the front end off of a Sierra and graft it onto a Silverado and fastener wise, everything will line up. As I mentioned, GMC gets its two sets of bumpers and headlights, Chevrolet gets its own sets... the puzzle pieces for each set fit together. With the number of other permutations being largely the same, Ford spends more on grilles and bumpers while GM spends more on front fenders... The tail light shape and tailgates on both of the GMs are identical. The front fenders are so close that anyone with a grinder could modify a GMC fender into a Chevrolet fender (but not vice versa unless you're good at adding sheet metal.) The exact same modifications that go into making a Raptor front clip. So again... it is a falsehood... a mistake... erroneous... to imply that Ford has some massive engineering and profit advantage here by keeping their trucks in a single brand. Boo..well that's why I couldn't find one then... I was only looking at 2017s... So they're clearing out old stock at the end of a model year.... no news here....

Indeed... I could see myself in a King Ranch... but that's what my mom drives and I'm not sure I want to go that way.

Indeed it does take money to do different headlights, tail lights, hood, and interiors... different grilles, some with light pipes in the headlight, some without... By my count on Ford.com, Ford has at least 12 different grilles, 6 different front bumpers, and at least 5 different headlight cluster assemblies for the 150/250. Ram has 5 grilles, 4 bumpers, and 3 headlight assemblies. GM has 4 headlight clusters (Silverado 1500, Silverado 2500, Sierra 1500, Sierra 2500), 9 grilles, and 4 front bumpers (two each for 1500 and 2500) with various coatings. The interiors of the GM trucks are so identical... I can't even spot any difference beyond the airbag cover on the wheel... there might be some material composition differences, but those are paid for by the more expensive prices on the GMC anyway just like paying for 2-tone paint and fancy leather on a King Ranch is more expensive. So let's not try and pretend that there is some vast cost advantage in the engineering department that Ford has over GM by sticking all of the trucks in a single brand. It's literally an extra airbag cover and tailgate badge that GM has to do where Ford doesn't. And yet GM actually has fewer choices in "look" than Ford.

I've never thought that Subaru had the legendary reliability that Honda and Toyota had (as I said.. a legend), I always felt that people just put up with them because they loved Subarus. A neighbor of mind went through 3 of them (two Forresters and a Legacy) before finally giving up and getting a Mazda 3 (which she promptly totaled)

You know as well as anyone that there is a difference between badge engineering and platform engineering. The difference between a Silverado and Sierra is just about the same difference between an F-150 XLT and a King Ranch, or a Lariat 3.5 EB and a Raptor.

@FordCosworth why do you yet again insist on comparing just Silverado to the entire Ford for Ram lineup? Silverado/Sierra are within a few thousand units of Ford in the 1/2 Ton 3/4 ton segment. You'd pitch a fit if we counted all Ford trucks except the Platinums, King Ranches, and Raptors. That is essentially what you're trying to do. That said, I saw this article pop up on my news feed yesterday and went out hunting for such a deal. I had a really hard time finding a truck in my local inventory that had the full $11k in incentives. In fact, I found none at my local dealers even though the website clearly was promoting the $11k incentive. So... that begs the question... how much of the $11k is smoke and mirrors to get people in the door and then turn them on to some other truck with lower incentives. I was actually pretty disappointed I couldn't find one... my Honda is back at the mechanic again after only a week since the last trip, I really need to get out of that car.

Quite honestly, I'd stick with the S90 or go with the CT6.

The International Motor Press Association is holding its Fall 2016 rally this week at the Monticello Motor Club in the Catskill Mountains NY. I'll be posting to various social media all day today and tomorrow. You can follow us on Twitter Or Instagram Or I'm just starting our Snapchat channel as CheersandGears

ATS-V Coupe with a few dealership "add-ons" like rust proofing and window etching... easiest decision I've made all day. But I think we need more wiggle room on the price here because the BMW is just overpriced and selling on it's badge. The ATS-V absolutely maxed out with carbon fiber, Recaros, and everything is $74,250 and yet the ATS-V will hang with the M4 in nearly every performance metric.

It really is just a slightly more powerful compact segment car... not so much a full out performance car like the WRX or GTI. The CVT was bad from an outright performance perspective, but in "normal" driving, I imagine it would make good use of the torque.

Sounds roughly similar to my Nissan Sentra SR Turbo First Drive though I had the CVT.

I think these are meant to be pursuit vehicles... not just trundle around on patrol that any old W-Body Impala could accomplish. As such, their numbers in the fleet would be limited.

There is just something about a big, V8, American luxury car... and this is as close as you get to that now.