IfICouldWouldYou?

But snobs will throw $20k out the window to prove they have 'arrived.' If I was going to blow $60k on a car, it would be old enough to appreciate in value, not be worth half in 3 years. Kudos to Pontiac for daring to dream the G8 against a BMW 5-series.

Undoubtedly, China has experienced phenomenal growth in the past decade or two; however, don't be fooled by the glossy tourist photos. At this stage, the growth is concentrated in certain areas, like Beijing. The rural areas are still largely untouched by this 'progress.' It is from these more loosely populated, rural areas that the vast influx of cheap labor is flooding. Otherwise, why are shipping containers full of 'refugees' still washing up on the western shores of Vancouver Island and Seattle? We can hold our breath and hope that we can 'westernize' China, but if we fail, the world is in for a clash of civilizations that is going to make the Cold War look like a tea party. One other factor to throw into the fray: Russia has negative population growth. It is estimated that in 15 years, Russia will not be able to muster the manpower to maintain its own borders with China. Russia = space and resources. China = no space and dwindling resources. Throw that on the plate for the UN to sweat about in 10 or 15 years.

You two just don't get it, do you? I'm new here and I have seen nothing but personal attacks from both of you since I started on this board. It is one thing to disagree, but quite another to get all holier than thou and condescending. It leaves for an unpleasant taste in newcomer's mouths and belittles your argument. Getting personal and nasty just makes one's argument look desperate and cheapens the dialogue. There is no need of it.

The great fallacy with this is that China has an immense supply of cheap labor. The US has already tried this approach with NAFTA, but look at the results: Mexico is still a horrible mess and the 'refugees' flood across our borders to escape. Raising countries to our standard of living only works with countries that are reasonable. It worked with Japan. It worked with Taiwan, to a large extent. It is failing with Mexico and it will fail with China. Labor prices can only fall if the supply of labor at least stagnates and I don't think we will see that any time soon. We are seeing such struggles in all the so-called BRIC countries: exploding population growth is overwhelming those country's attempts to raise their standards of living. I also like the earlier point about carbon taxes being a secret way of excising duties on imported goods. The environmentalists will support Washington on this one, and in an indirect way we will be doing the Asians a service: the level of pollution over there is shocking. Perhaps the BBC should cover that, instead of gushing over the increase in highways. If every Chinese household were to obtain a refrigerator, we could kiss good bye our ozone layer.

If I was freezing to death on an ice floe, had one match and a stack of CR mags beside me, I would rather freeze to death than subject the match to the indignaty of touching one of those magazines.

Apparently you haven't visited a Chevy dealer recently. There are parts readily available to boost the ecotec to 400 hp, lots of upgrade parts and even monochromatic plastic parts to change the look of the interior, spoilers, etc. The real issue is that the SS is supposed to be an affordable sports car. Besides, ever look at the inside of a '67 Chevelle? Or a '69 Challenger? Not exactly loaded luxuries in their day, either.

The union withdrew its application. There was some discrepency about the number of workers who had registered to push for a union vote. Toyota issued a challenge that not enough workers had signed on to allow the vote. The union counter-charged that Toyota was playing hanky panky with the true number of employees. Go figure.

GM has done the right thing. As proven by the Aura and Outlook, Saturn simply doesn't have the dealer body or the name to sell anything in volume. The Cobalt SS is the right car for this. My neighbor's kid has a '07 Cobalt LT coupe with the black leather interior and I can say that there is nothing wrong with the interior of this car. In LS form it is a little cheap, but the higher models are nicer - as is usually the case with all makes.

The more choice the better. There is no way the business model would work with just the V-8. Or doesn't anyone remember that 25 years ago the V-6 Camaro was the ultimate 'secretary's car?'

Well, in 20 years when Toyota and Honda have the same legacy costs as Detroit, they will have to sell the oars to pay the bills, too. Just think how profitable Ford and GM would be if only they and Chrysler were 'allowed' to sell cars and trucks here.

Americans are not clamoring for more fuel efficient vehicles for a variety of reasons; chief among them, I would say, is that America is a very big country and we spend our money differently. Europeans nearly all have passports and on holidays, they love to travel. When you can drive across England in a matter of hours, having a car is not exactly a major importance. (Don't get me wrong, there are lots of things to do in England, but with a population density like theirs, it can be done by train, bus or foot.) Americans, conversely, are among the lowest possessors of passports in the world. You could spend a lifetime driving in this country (and I would include Canada in this) and still not see everything. Euro-middle class spend their money differently, that's all. If I am going to spend 6-8 hour days driving with 3 screaming kids, cross-country, it will not be in a Opel Astra, I can tell you that. City driving numbers are largely dependent on the way one drive's; however, highway numbers are more realistic and there are plenty of comfortable highway cruisers that get over 30 mpg here (keeping in mind that UK mpg and US are 20% different!) Having said that, if the purpose of a concept vehicle is to evoke debate, well this vehicle from Toyota is certainly a success!

Turning the Malibu into a production whore is only inviting serious discounting. GM has gone on record as saying they want to protect resale value, too. If every dealer has 50 of these things, then they will just whore them out, and that benefits no one. Stay the course, GM. Let the Sonata and Fusion become the new rental queens!

That doesn't make sense. Even the 2-mode system adds a level of complexity: the Volt's small engine doesn't touch the wheels: it only recharges the batteries, thus the only time the engine comes on it can keep at a optimal RPM which is even better for fuel economy. A 600 mile range on a single tank? Better than any car I am aware of. As has been said, the Volt is a 'game changer.' If delivered as promised (and I've seen it in person - it blows the Prius out of the water, styling wise), it will not only put GM back in the game, but put it at the top of the game. I think that alone is worth the billions being spent. Ford gambled with the Taurus 25 years ago and it saved the company. GM is in just such a situation.

"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night........."

The trouble is, you are the first person to resort to name-calling and personal attacks. I've re-read many of your posts and you've attacked several people on C&G in a very short duration here. That is no way to win an argument. You make valuable points, but your big words and haughty arrogance belies certain inadquacies. Even on the internet, people can tell when they are being 'talked down to.' There is a reason 'American' cars and trucks don't sell outside of the Americas: we pay $3.25 a gallon; you pay $7 and more. Before WWII, the world market was largely the same, but after Europe was nearly bombed into the Dark Ages, America enjoyed a boom never before seen on this planet. Witness the excesses of the mid and late '50s American cars - all highly covetted on the world market today for their decadent excess. Perhaps as oil reaches $150 US a barrel, America's market will become more like the rest of the world and then GM will be able to better market vehicles world-wide. For now, however, the Japanese have enjoyed an edge because their gas prices have been traditionally high, just like Europe's; therefore, the tiny tin cans that have historically sold well in Europe, sell equally well in Asia. America has been able to afford more largesse, historically speaking. That may end soon enough, but until then if we want to look in disdain at the curious square boxes from the Orient, then that is our perogative.

How do you figure that? GM is increasing with double digits in the EXPANDING markets of Brazil, China, China and India, while Toyota is growing at single digits in the DECLINING markets of the U.S., Canada and Japan. Of course, they are more profitable, but that can change at a moment's notice. It would seem that Toyota is in a good position, but as the North American market 'matures' (like it already has in Europe), they will find it tougher to slog it out. It is easy to double one's sales from 5% to 10%; not so much from 10 to 20%.

But the earlier topic was about water and Canada's 36 million have more water than they know what to do with...something Californian's need to think about. Oh, and there's oil, too. With Saudi Arabis II up there, Canadians will soon be our BESTEST EVER friends.

I know we all live in North America and are panicking by what we see, but Toyota is not invincible. In Japan, their 50% market share is 50% of a market in decline. The only market they are doing well in, is ours and 2008 is going to be a hellish year. GM, on the other hand, is doing extremely well in Europe and in the only markets that are growing (Brazil, Russia, China, India), GM is very well positioned. Do not be surprised if GM ends up decidedly ahead of Toyota again for calender year 2008. As most of us on C&G make our money here, I guess we are guilty of only giving a damn about what goes on here, but GM is actually in very good shape elsewhere - and ELSEWHERE is increasingly becoming more important. Getting back on topic, the market has become way too fractured in the past 20 years for Pontiac to be Pontiac and Chevrolet to be Chevrolet, etc.: that was something the marketing boys could easily acheive in the '50s and '60s. Pontiac should never have had a truck, but with the huge surge in the truck market over the past 10-15 years, those dealers would have been crushed without one. Ditto, Buick. Amalgamation will certainly help. The real danger here is what will $5 a gallon gas do to all these market niches? Suddenly, vehicles like the Tahoe virtually disappear, while vehicles like the Aveo, Yaris and others become top sellers. This will be another challenge to the divisions: how do they differentiate their product when 60% of the market becomes motorized skateboards?

It would have been interesting to sit in on a Board meeting at K-Mart in the mid-80s as the first Wal-Marts were going up. What would your advice have been to them? Fire the board. Buy out Wal-Mart? Cut their prices? Move their buyers to China? Sears was a powerhouse to be reckoned with. Now, they are looking nervously over their shoulders, too. Hindsight is 20-20. GM is fighting a 20 sided war right now - a war that it is winning everywhere but HERE. I find that very, very curioius. So should Washington. So should people on this board. GM is not faultless in this decline, but I'd wager that half the blame is our own. Our own greed and selishness has allowed the barbarians to the gate. And now we are whimpering because they are clamoring over the wall?

First off, GM brought out the Blazer and Jimmy way ahead of Ford (not to mention the imports) and pretty much invented the SUV market - even though Jeep had been playing around in the market for years. Yes, Ford was first out with the 4 door mid-size, but the Jimmy/Blazer twins continued to sell very well. Do you imagine an engineer can just cut two extra doors in the existing truck? Chrysler came out with their 4 door vans in '96, but even they were stunned by the demand for them. Ford had come out the year before with their Windstar so it took them 3 years before they could engineer the 4th door; GM was lucky and able to alter the upcoming Venture to accomodate the 'optional' 4th door. BTW, the GM minivans outsell both the Sienna and Odysse in Canada; in fact, GM is #2 in minivans in Canada. Not bad for the supposedly 'inferior' vans. I'll have to side with GM on the hybrid buses. Toyota has spent a lot of money on endowments and PR hacks in Washington and they have won the PR wars on the hybrid debate, but I doubt they are making money on them. Let's see how well the 2-mode trucks do this Fall, shall we? Now there is something even the New York Times can cut its teeth on. The original Tauruses were design marvels and certainly sold well, but Ford was in no danger of becoming #1 in the mid-size market in the mid-80s. That was a time when the GM strategy of 4 or 5 models based on the same platform served it well. Hindsight is always 20-20. If GM hadn't poured money into its trucks in the mid-90s and continued to 'own' that market, I guess we would all be bitching about that , wouldn't we?

Worm food. I think it is ultimate hubris to believe God would have made us in his/her image. Why bother? And why would God even have an 'image.' Does he have a PR firm, too? I am a Christedelphian, raised as a Jehovah's Witness and married to a Scientologist. Now that would make for screwd up kids, wouldn't it?

Moral relativism. How I was brought up, how I was taught to believe is different than the next guy. My influences and experiences have shaped who I have become. It's a slippery slope, but who can argue about whether the the West has progressed in the past 50 or 60 years? As the X-Files declared: the Truth is Out There. That is all I ask for in a person is integrity. Have an open mind and always seek the truth.

You guys are making a mistake, if you are basing your calculations on $3 a gallon. Try $5 a gallon. GM is about right with their 2-mode introduction: that will help Tahoe sales from tanking. When OPEC goes off the U.S dollar and if one more South American dictator rattles his sabre, we will see $150 a barrel. Hybrids make so much more sense at $4.50+ a gallon. In fact, the Smart Car might even start to look good...............

Well, the current ES is less obvious than the previous generation, but the last ES was so obviously a Camry with bubble headlights that it was laughable. Non-car enthusiasts don't notice the nuances that we might. My wife actually thought an ES was a Camry. Toyota had better watch out. Just because there is a 'T' on the hood doesn't mean the People will be stupid forever.

I wouldn't do that far.....The Vibe has a nicer interior, fit and finish and plastics. The HHR has a significantly better ride and handling, not to mention power. The Toyota engine is no match for the ecotec in terms of power, but I suspect those who are buying the Matrix/Vibe are little interested in power.