Sixty8panther

Thanks Balthazar. (And you too Dodgefan) Some of us get it, others don't. I guess the average person on this forum has yet to ever take a ride in a hardtop, nevermind DRIVE one. I seem to remember Fly telling me how quickly the idea won him over when he bought the '76 LeSabre off of me, & a few other members have also told me that "you just can't understand untill you drive one with the windows down on a spring/fall/summer day..." I suppose if I had not owned a few myself I might not get it myself. One of the coolest moments of my life was driving home in my just-purchased '68 Camaro with all four windows down, looking over to my right and seeing that cool black doorpanel with chrome trim and an uninterupted window A-pillar-to-C with a sexy kickup over the rear quarter is an image that was forever burned into my subconscious. How am I supposed to get excited about a 5th gen Camaro "coupe" when the every time I go to check my blind spot and turn to the right the interior will remind me more of a Civic coupe than a Camaro. One of the tackiest things about modern interiors is that super-thick, ugly plastic covered B-pillar and the black masking around the rear window where the glass is glued in. It's cheap and corny. The thickness of the B-pillar on the Cobalt, or any other typical, modern "sports coupe" (/Richard Simmons) voiceover has a B-pillar cover that makes the entire unit about as thick around as a small tree. A 1" in diameter steel cable can hold up several tons of weight and when hit hard enough will slice a modern "unibody" (Honda-Pepsi-can-construction) car in half on impact at 50+ MPH but somehow this plastic & sheetmetal tube will make all the differance in the world? NO. It's lazy. I saw a rolled over Suburban once and all the A/B/C/D pillars on that truck did not do a damn thing, the roof was smushed flat like a ten-ton shipping container was dropped on it at terminal velocity. As for all you drag-race/SCCA/weekend warrior types? You too could enjoy a cleaner, more elegant car with a hardtop greenhouse & extra-reinforced C-pillars AND install a rollcage to supplement the production car chassis, which is what you should do ANYWAYS! As sad as it is that the Camaro will be a corny two-door-sedan, the $40K+ Challenger will be even more lame with a big clunky B-pillar. You wanna talk useless? Here's items in modern cars I think are lame and a waste of my money as well as GVWR: (plus add repair bills & complication) - Sunroofs/Moonroofs/skyview roofs (that's safer than a hardtop? a 3.5 foot by 5 foot glass panel above your head?) - cheesy decklid spoilers, esp. on FWD cars (WTF do you need downforce for on the rear axle?) - Alteza tail lights in EVERTHING, while some are stylish most are ubber-lame (Ford/Merc comes to mind) - 22" (oversized) rims.... look pretty cool right? Just wait till you hit ONE nasty pothole, you're out $850 for ONE WHEEL and TIRE! - Navigation, power windows, 40-speaker sound systems and other stupid non-car guy junk, esp. when it's STANDARD. - IRS on EVERYTHIG including SUVs. I do NOT want the complication, added cost (before and after purchase) & lack of durrability That's my $0.02 I'll let you guys get back to your thread about how every car post-2008 should have a power-glovebox, heated shifter, HDTV screens in every headrest, 9-speed auto transmission with traction control, hill-assist, seven-channel ABS & most importantly an interior that looks like a CAD diagram for a Bentley concept car.

I've been in the passanger seat of a street legal '69 Camaro when it lifed both wheels off the ground. Some of you may remember it, the green 454-powered hardtop I helped my crazy buddy Sean sell on eBay, we delivered it to the buyer in North Carolina in 2005. Sean used to pop a wheelie in it from time to time, not exactly good for the front suspension though when it landed. But this was with custom built traction bars, a 500 horsepower big block/M22 four speed & Weld racing wheels (classic drag stance)

Thanks BV... from what I've seen at the junkyards, those miller cycle sixes are not exactly accessible. Certainly it can not be hard to get at the spark plugs in the Olds though, Cadillacs with their more packed engine bays full of air-pumps, big AC compressors and bulky wiring harnesses are a bit more hassle but I'd much rather deal with that than the average FWD car with a V-motor....

Thanks FoG. Moltar (and the rest of the "it's not 1968 anymore..." brigade) Again I ask, if MB can build modern hardtops without much (if any) cost added than why can't Chevy? Going back to my argument I've already proven that a simillary equiped Mercedes E-class sedan costs JUST as MUCH as the CLK hardtop which shares it's motor & most of its mechanicals. Actually the E-sedan is MORE than the CLK, and the CL class hardtop has been proven to be as safe, & in some cases SAFER than a comprable 2dr sedan. Fifteen, no even ten years ago mot of us would have argued that 400+ horsepower in a Dodge/Chrysler sedan with RWD, made possible by a hemispherical pushrod V8 (yeah yeah, it's not a REAL HEMI) would never again happen, or at least not in our lifetime. But guess what? It has. And most of us were shocked, and maybe someday when hardtops are in vogue again you'll all be surprised. Stop compromising and being complacent, you're all acting like the 21st century is all about sucking it up & being grateful for anything with RWD and a V8. Aim higher. I say we can do better. Why NOT dream big. I remember being told in 2004 on this very forum over & over again, after bieng told for years elsewhere that I needed to "get over it" the Camaro was dead and that was that. Pony cars do not sell, insurance, shrinking coupe market, practicality, SUVs, blah-blah-blah... And how WRONG you were. Maybe lightning will strike twice.

I'm sick of being told I'm stupid for wanting an affordable modern hardtop ... esp. by people who I think nitpick the mosgt trivial crap like the grain on a dashboard, "quality" of the door panels and other B.S. that I do not even notice, EVER. Maybe the whole world has turned into a bunch of pu$$ies. I wonder if Jay Leno has ever had a problem with the ergonomics of the seat-back on his '31 Duesenberg SJ? You think he spends hours contemplating weather the generic "MOMO" style steering wheel in his '97 McLaren F1 detracts greatly from the fact that the car will cruise comfortably at 185mph with three people inside & 200 lbs. of luggage? Or, perhaps... on days he takes out his Porsche 911 turbo he might get a bit frustrated with the lack of steering wheel controls for his radio. When cars were CARS the factory gave you the option of a B-pillar or not, and either way the rear window was NOT glued in. It opend up at least half way as does my 1959 Buicks'. Also the mouse-fur on the visors, center console and door panels was of little concern, unless you had a vagina, in which case you still had better taste in cars than most of today's MEN. I'd rather drive a Dodge LeFeme than most of today's "masculine" cars. It makes me sick to live in an era when guys brag about the "great shift linkage & trunkspace" in their new Honda Accord. Seems like these days a FWD, midsize, V6 family sedan is perfectly accepteble for a guy going through a midlife crisis when he's trading his 4-cylinder FWD one. If I ever go through a midlife crisis I'll build a hardtop GTO with a 572, not pretend to take my balls out of my wife's purse by getting my FWD Camry/Accord in RED metallic instead of the beige. That's what most of you remind me of... so very willing to compromise antything & everyhing the safety/green nazis tell you is out of reach. /annoyed with the 21st century.

1st: I was being sarcastic, I know that the crappy glued in rear window & B-post make it lighter. 2nd: NOS - you might want to take a better look at a '67/'68 before you go putting your foot in your mouth, any true Camaro fan would know that only the hardtop greenhouse is shared with the '67-'68 and '69 Camaros. The headlights, tail lights, front & rear valances and even the RS trim were ALL different for '69. Both the RS & standard grilles, gas filler location, parking light location and even the doors were different. The optional hoods were revised and the bumpers were completely done over as well, more integrated and elegant. Anyone who says the '67/'68 and '69 Camaros basically look the same drives me nuts. True, mechanically they were almost exactly identical but it's laughable to say that a car is basically unchanged because the roof, header panel, glass, trunklid & door handles stay the same while every other piece of its' sheetmetal/trim/lighting/bumpers etc. is revised. These days, in 2008 a typical manufacturer changes less than that & calls the model "all new"

Read the thread. I posted a quick opinion & NOS was the one who chimed in with the B-pillar.

Counter clockwise, but then again I watched it for all of 3.5 sec.

Scion is lamer than the GEO Brand, which did better what Scion was supposed to do, without even trying. (bring in younger buyers) I see SO many geriatrics driving Scions it's almost funny.... if it was not filling Toyota's coffers still.

TED: Point taken. Not that I LOVE the concept's interior but it's a WHOLE lot less generic. NOS: U wanna get me going? If Mercedes can build a world class sport coupe as a hardtop with EXCELLENT safety ratings than so can Chevrolet. The Benz costs $47+ thousand you say? True but a four door sedan E-class starts at $52K so obviously the cost of making the C-pillar strong enough to compensate for the missing B, the regulators and such is NEGLIGABLE!!! Plus the Camaro's lower price will have to do with the lack of standard luxury items that the Benz must have these days, like a 7-speed auto w/ 2 reverse gears, leather, navi, real burl walnut trim, 10-way poer seats, and other silly luxury bull$h! that I do not need nor WANT in my muscle car. But I guess unless you opt for a luxury car you have to put up with an ugly & clumbersome B-pillar and glued in glass as if you bought an '85 K-car 2dr. But don;t forget to remind me that I instigated this argument.

NOthing great but who cares? It's an SRT8, what's under the hood is what COUNTS!

I think FWD is useless even for tray sliding. XP tried his best in his chick's W-body Impala and the trays shattered and splintered... In my opinion modern FWD cars are only good for one thing: DEMOLITION DERBY ENDURO RACES! And I can proudly say I've killed several in that way. All of them Mazdas, Fords. I did also kill a RWD Volvo 240 but it had about 300K miles on the odometer, it had a good life.

It's called a spark plug wrench... Point is the firewall, windshield, radiator support, fan-shroud, intake or cowl are not it the way.

LOL, O.B. you're a class clown. This forum would not be the same without you.

Lighter you say? How much does that B-pillar add in lbs. The 6th gen. Camaro should look more '69 in styling... with those super-cool speed lines on the fenders that come off the wheelwells and crease the sheetmetal. The 5th gen. since it is more '67/'68 in styling has the simple round wheel wells. That's the logical evolution, and in that same light a more pronounced and agressive headlight & grille would be great!

What sux even MORE than having New England loosing the big one after a 18-0 season? Knowing GM is too pussy-whipped by the safety Nazis to make a hardtop Camaro or CTS-coupe. Sigh...

LOL, priceless... stupid ricer kids!

Suzuki makes some decent product these days, the XL7 is the only lame one! The Grand Vitara & SX4 are great values, truth be told. HOWEVER: Toyopet-Lex-Sci, Hond-Accura, Mitsu & Kia need to GTFO of the USA!!!

I predict Nigeria or Rowanda myself.

You're speaknig MY language! The last FWD car I bought was my 1997 Cadillac STS. I bought it for Marcia (now my ex) the STS was her dream car. I still have a soft spot for the '92-'98 STS but I will never own another. I've already walked down that plank into financially disasterous waters. I parted out as much as I could of the STS last year and sent the still running/driving shell to the junkyard.

Most Hondas can't handle a dirt road period. Esp. the Ridgeline.

Past 15 years? So that's '93 MY and newer? Most cars newer than early 1970s suck IMHO. As far as "unique" there's a small percentage of modern cars that do not suck. That is unique I suppose. But if I had to choose just a few: 1. Last gen. B/D-body, even the non-LT1s, esp. Caddy F.B. 2. Anything off the Sigma platform, esp. the pushrod-V8 CTS-V 3. BMW 850 hardtop 4. current Mercedes CL600 hardtop 5. current Mercedes CLK550 hardtop 6. Chevy/GMC trucks with a Duramax t.d./allison & quadrasteer 7. 4th gen. F-bodys (duh!) 8. 2002 Nissan Skyline GT-R (R34) 9. 1995-8 BMW M3 10. Kappa, the Solstice and Sky are both freekin' awsome! and yes there's plenty of other cool stuff like the '93 Fox body Cobra & exotics like the McLaren F1

Who says we need to? Isn't $3.00 enough?

NOS: Use your head dude, it's a scam. No you did not REALLY win $50,000,000 from Publisher's Clearing House.

Doc. Hudson, Ramone & Sheriff are the three coolest. And BTW, Sheriff is a '49 Merc & Mater is most certainly a '55 Chevy truck!