Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
enzl

GM already hedging on Volt intro date

48 posts in this topic

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/04/autos/volt...sion=2008010408

GM may miss target for plug-in hybrid

CEO Wagoner says automaker pouring massive resources into battery-powered Volt, but can't promise it'll be ready by 2010 target date.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors might not be able to hit its target to have its breakthrough electric-powered car the Chevrolet Volt in production by 2010, according to comments made by CEO Rick Wagoner during an online chat.

Wagoner, who participated in an online forum Thursday to mark the 100th anniversary of the automaker, said the company continues "to put massive resources into production as soon as possible." But he cautioned, "2010 would be great, but (we) can't guarantee that at this time."

The Volt, unveiled at the Detroit auto show a year ago, is a so-called "plug-in" hybrid that would have a lithium-ion battery that can be recharged on common household electric current.

GM says it should be able to travel up to 40 miles powered by just the battery. On longer trips the Volt would use a motor powered by gasoline or ethanol to charge the batteries, a system it calls "E-Flex."

Automakers end tough '07 with weak sales

GM (GM, Fortune 500) has already started to build advertising campaigns around the Volt, even though in the best-case scenario it is years away from production. It is seen as a way of trying to change public perceptions about the fuel efficiency and environmental responsibility of the U.S. automaker, which is more closely associated with large SUVs or pickup trucks.

"The Chevy Volt, and the E-Flex system, are really important for GM's, and I think the whole industry's, future," Wagoner said. "With the growing demand for oil, we need to diversify the sources of power for autos."

But GM and its suppliers still have work to do on developing a battery that can meet the demands for the car. Wagoner said GM is are currently bench testing batteries, but didn't give any more details about how those tests were going.

GM reported a drop in December sales Thursday that left its 2007 sales down 6 percent. Its market share fell to 23.7 percent from 24.6 percent a year earlier. While rival Toyota Motor ™ also reported a drop in December sales, it ended the year with a 3.1 percent gain in sales, taking its U.S. market share up to 16.2 percent from 15.4 percent a year earlier.

The sales gains at Toyota were helped by a nearly 70 percent jump in sales of its Prius hybrid sedan, as well as its other hybrid offerings. The Toyota hybrids run on a combination of power from a traditional gasoline engine and an electric motor, but they are not plugged in to recharge the battery.

Those sales helped Toyota move past Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) into the No. 2 spot in U.S. sales. It also helped its Toyota brand move past both Ford and Chevrolet to become the nation's best-selling brand.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the money they saved by canceling the UV8 should go straight into E-flex

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/04/autos/volt...sion=2008010408

GM may miss target for plug-in hybrid

CEO Wagoner says automaker pouring massive resources into battery-powered Volt, but can't promise it'll be ready by 2010 target date.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors might not be able to hit its target to have its breakthrough electric-powered car the Chevrolet Volt in production by 2010, according to comments made by CEO Rick Wagoner during an online chat.

Wagoner, who participated in an online forum Thursday to mark the 100th anniversary of the automaker, said the company continues "to put massive resources into production as soon as possible." But he cautioned, "2010 would be great, but (we) can't guarantee that at this time."

The Volt, unveiled at the Detroit auto show a year ago, is a so-called "plug-in" hybrid that would have a lithium-ion battery that can be recharged on common household electric current.

GM says it should be able to travel up to 40 miles powered by just the battery. On longer trips the Volt would use a motor powered by gasoline or ethanol to charge the batteries, a system it calls "E-Flex."

Automakers end tough '07 with weak sales

GM (GM, Fortune 500) has already started to build advertising campaigns around the Volt, even though in the best-case scenario it is years away from production. It is seen as a way of trying to change public perceptions about the fuel efficiency and environmental responsibility of the U.S. automaker, which is more closely associated with large SUVs or pickup trucks.

"The Chevy Volt, and the E-Flex system, are really important for GM's, and I think the whole industry's, future," Wagoner said. "With the growing demand for oil, we need to diversify the sources of power for autos."

But GM and its suppliers still have work to do on developing a battery that can meet the demands for the car. Wagoner said GM is are currently bench testing batteries, but didn't give any more details about how those tests were going.

GM reported a drop in December sales Thursday that left its 2007 sales down 6 percent. Its market share fell to 23.7 percent from 24.6 percent a year earlier. While rival Toyota Motor ™ also reported a drop in December sales, it ended the year with a 3.1 percent gain in sales, taking its U.S. market share up to 16.2 percent from 15.4 percent a year earlier.

The sales gains at Toyota were helped by a nearly 70 percent jump in sales of its Prius hybrid sedan, as well as its other hybrid offerings. The Toyota hybrids run on a combination of power from a traditional gasoline engine and an electric motor, but they are not plugged in to recharge the battery.

Those sales helped Toyota move past Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) into the No. 2 spot in U.S. sales. It also helped its Toyota brand move past both Ford and Chevrolet to become the nation's best-selling brand.

Errr, they've always said that (without even giving a target).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember Rick's tactic;

Under promise - over deliver.

This tactic is working well for GM, and it will bode well for the Volt.

Errr, they've always said that (without even giving a target).

Yeah, it's pretty obvious by the tone of the piece where this authors loyalty lies.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll just wait and see. It isn't like Rick is going to call up Reuters and say, 'hey, this lithium ion thing is going swell and the Volt will be ready next week...' Like Toyota wouldn't be all over that.....

It is important to have goals. Anyone who runs a company knows that. With something as complex as the Volt, if GM is off by a few months into 2011, I will personally forgive them. Better to do it right then rush it (remember the 8-6-4 disaster of 25 years ago?)

Articles like this just prove the loyalties of the authors...and the people who post them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm not too concerned about this. While I think that getting this out somewhat on time is very important, if they need to delay a 1/2 year, that's fine. It's more important to get it right.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember Lutz saying something like" we are trying like hell to get it done by the end of 2010" quite a while back.

The "hedging" characterization is just BS. There is no news in this article, even if they make the late 2010 target, the car would obviously be a 2011 model year offering.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The "hedging" characterization is just BS. There is no news in this article, even if they make the late 2010 target, the car would obviously be a 2011 model year offering.

Yes. Remember, GM didn't exactly state if the 2010 target meant the 2010 model year or 2010 callendar year. :AH-HA_wink:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Title:

GM may miss target for plug-in hybrid
The Conclusion:
Those sales helped Toyota move past Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) into the No. 2 spot in U.S. sales. It also helped its Toyota brand move past both Ford and Chevrolet to become the nation's best-selling brand.

What is the F*cking relation? It just seems like hidden Toy trumpet. GM is good but hey we beat their ass.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Title: The Conclusion:

What is the F*cking relation? It just seems like hidden Toy trumpet. GM is good but hey we beat their ass.

Not to mention that there is some question as to who outsold who in this market.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More ass covering by your esteemed leader...and you guys buy it hook, line and sinker.

I'm not sure what's sadder-the endless defensiveness of the group here or the fact that thousands of people depend upon RW's meek leadership.

One question: If this wasn't news, why would Rick mention it at all in one of the blogs?...unless it's a set-up to cover the inevitable backtracking when the program pushes into '11 for an '12 intro or later.

While you may see my constant harping as disloyalty, I look at it as the ultimate form of passion for GM and cars in general. I don't agree with the leadership at GM, I don't think they're doing a good job & I believe that a new direction is necessary--clearly, some of you don't. Since I have more at stake than 95% of you, your constant sniping at my 'motivation' just adds fuel to my fire.

You've chased almost every other voice of dissent away from this board--that's not winning an argument, that's just bullying people. There's a huge difference. Glad to see there's still a place for narrow-minded stubborness in our PC world.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
More ass covering by your esteemed leader...and you guys buy it hook, line and sinker.

I'm not sure what's sadder-the endless defensiveness of the group here or the fact that thousands of people depend upon RW's meek leadership.

One question: If this wasn't news, why would Rick mention it at all in one of the blogs?...unless it's a set-up to cover the inevitable backtracking when the program pushes into '11 for an '12 intro or later.

While you may see my constant harping as disloyalty, I look at it as the ultimate form of passion for GM and cars in general. I don't agree with the leadership at GM, I don't think they're doing a good job & I believe that a new direction is necessary--clearly, some of you don't. Since I have more at stake than 95% of you, your constant sniping at my 'motivation' just adds fuel to my fire.

You've chased almost every other voice of dissent away from this board--that's not winning an argument, that's just bullying people. There's a huge difference. Glad to see there's still a place for narrow-minded stubborness in our PC world.

Do you want your dealership and your wages to survive till 2015 or 2050? Because if the Volt is NOT done right, it may certainly be an end to GM's destiny and its impact on the perceptions of the people.

If not Rick, you wanted Carlos the Ghosn with Jerry York and Kirk Kierokirorkirkorean? Because the way I look at it the silver boy Ghosn is not doing good either. The entire auto industry is in doldrums. If GM was sitting on cash like Toyota, may be time would not have been an issue. But even if there are greenbacks available, they will not prevent any technical difficulties which may have arosed around testing. The fact of the matter is it is not 2011 to bitch about GM not delivering the promise. At this moment most of us are playing couch football to really get into the matter of what is happening inside GM and battery providers' premises regarding the Volt.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No promises were made and none were broken,

this is no big deal.

I just don't see what your gripe is about, Enzl.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you want your dealership and your wages to survive till 2015 or 2050? Because if the Volt is NOT done right, it may certainly be an end to GM's destiny and its impact on the perceptions of the people.

If not Rick, you wanted Carlos the Ghosn with Jerry York and Kirk Kierokirorkirkorean? Because the way I look at it the silver boy Ghosn is not doing good either. The entire auto industry is in doldrums. If GM was sitting on cash like Toyota, may be time would not have been an issue. But even if there are greenbacks available, they will not prevent any technical difficulties which may have arosed around testing. The fact of the matter is it is not 2011 to bitch about GM not delivering the promise. At this moment most of us are playing couch football to really get into the matter of what is happening inside GM and battery providers' premises regarding the Volt.

This is not just about the Volt, my friend. Just the fact that you're arguing that somehow that one vehicle will have an impact on whether we're here in 2015 or 2050 shows how you don't understand the gravity of the situation.

The current management has been in place for years---they have overseen the most disastrous loss of marketshare (proportionately) in the domestic auto business' history.

They've shown little respect for their stockholders, little vision, poor forcasting, terrible distribution and, furthermore, have leveraged GM to the point where they CANNOT develop the vehicles necessary to move forward. (for just the latest, see Caddy HF V8 cancellation)

How can you defend that? I don't want Ghosn or York...but there were, apparently, plenty of good auto people out for the taking: Toyota just lost 3 of them, Bernhart has been underemployed for months; & Porsche, BMW and a ton of other carmakers have human beings that MIGHT want to work for the Biggest CAR Company on the Planet...

This administration has been taken to the cleaners by Subaru & Fiat, poured Billions with nothing to show for Saab, depended on trucks knowing that China's economy (& energy needs) was growing at double digit rates---C'mon, man.

You can hate on me---but they've done ALL the damage themselves. Don't worry about hurting Rick's feelings---he made sure to make his Golden Parachute bankruptcy-proof---how about that for confidence in your leadership ability?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK.

The gripe is about Wagoner, not the Volt.

Why don't you start a thread about that?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No promises were made and none were broken,

this is no big deal.

I just don't see what your gripe is about, Enzl.

One--you're using revisionist history--the Volt has been promised, now it's intro is being hedged...nobody wants to admit it might be delayed unless there's reason to--that's just basic PR

Second-They've been lying about plenty---that record-breaking write-off/loss a few weeks ago, their creative use of fleeting &, quite frankly, who knows what else?

That doesn't bother you--fine--it bothers me.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK.

The gripe is about Wagoner, not the Volt.

Why don't you start a thread about that?

I did.

I started this thread. I was attacked. So I gave my reasons for doubting the Rickster & his cronies---now that I've explained myself, I need to start a new thread?

Maybe you should, here's a working title: GM's Lackeys and Apologists.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One--you're using revisionist history--the Volt has been promised, now it's intro is being hedged...nobody wants to admit it might be delayed unless there's reason to--that's just basic PR

Second-They've been lying about plenty---that record-breaking write-off/loss a few weeks ago, their creative use of fleeting &, quite frankly, who knows what else?

That doesn't bother you--fine--it bothers me.

You are mistaken about the Volt. No promise was ever made.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are mistaken about the Volt. No promise was ever made.

Really? That's absolutely not the impression Lutz left at the auto show last year. Nor on his blogs.

More important question:

Then why is GM spending millions to advertise the Volt?

I would venture to say that the implication is that it is a short time away? That is certainly what the consumer viewing is led to believe....

Actually, it may not ever work--the battery tech isn't here as of today---and the Prius & co. have been around for about 10 years---is that GM's response time?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing I like about Enzl is that he makes me look like the eternal optimist. Keep up the good work! I read all the supposedly reputable journals and it seems like whenever GM starts getting some good press, the same old antogonists have to roll out the same old pessimistic arguments.

Who was it that said, whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can't, you will be right? We have aired GM's failings to death on this site (and Gawd knows other sites love to do it too!), but I am not about to get all riled up about one piece in the media. As I have said before, the fact that Toyota has cranked up its PR machine against the Volt is good enough for me.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't Lutz working for Excide when Wagoner grabbed him? :scratchchin:

Didn't GM invest heavily in Ballard Systems in Canada? :scratchchin:

Didn't they have a couple hundred all electric vehicles on the road for a few years that they scrapped? :scratchchin:

When did you have the Bat phone installed from the RenCen anyway, Enzl?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really? That's absolutely not the impression Lutz left at the auto show last year. Nor on his blogs.

More important question:

Then why is GM spending millions to advertise the Volt?

I would venture to say that the implication is that it is a short time away? That is certainly what the consumer viewing is led to believe....

Actually, it may not ever work--the battery tech isn't here as of today---and the Prius & co. have been around for about 10 years---is that GM's response time?

OK, I'll play.

1) impression isn't fact

2) We don't know if the Volt will happen by the end of 2010, or not.

3) The mere fact that GM is building the Volt is good PR.

4) The Volt will come to market. How well and when are, and have always been, open questions.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wasn't Lutz working for Excide when Wagoner grabbed him? :scratchchin:

Didn't GM invest heavily in Ballard Systems in Canada? :scratchchin:

Didn't they have a couple hundred all electric vehicles on the road for a few years that they scrapped? :scratchchin:

When did you have the Bat phone installed from the RenCen anyway, Enzl?

1 great decision,

1 maybe,

1 bad decision,

1 good idea (I'll call Bob on Monday)

GM's poor decisions far outnumber the good. All I want is some accountability.

Only question to ask: If your job performance matched GM's for the last 7+ years, would you still have a job?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You've chased almost every other voice of dissent away from this board--that's not winning an argument, that's just bullying people. There's a huge difference. Glad to see there's still a place for narrow-minded stubborness in our PC world.

Toyoguy left to save face given the recent issues over in Toyoland

SMK just gets his numbers completely wrong for cars that exist while pulling numbers out of his ass for cars that don't.... and he's still here.

Buickman... well, he wanted to overthrow Rick just so he could sell more LeSabres and Rendevous...... we don't have a sanity test for the board, but perhaps it's an idea who's time has come.

Josh, you know that tale.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is not just about the Volt, my friend. Just the fact that you're arguing that somehow that one vehicle will have an impact on whether we're here in 2015 or 2050 shows how you don't understand the gravity of the situation.

The current management has been in place for years---they have overseen the most disastrous loss of marketshare (proportionately) in the domestic auto business' history.

They've shown little respect for their stockholders, little vision, poor forcasting, terrible distribution and, furthermore, have leveraged GM to the point where they CANNOT develop the vehicles necessary to move forward. (for just the latest, see Caddy HF V8 cancellation)

How can you defend that? I don't want Ghosn or York...but there were, apparently, plenty of good auto people out for the taking: Toyota just lost 3 of them, Bernhart has been underemployed for months; & Porsche, BMW and a ton of other carmakers have human beings that MIGHT want to work for the Biggest CAR Company on the Planet...

This administration has been taken to the cleaners by Subaru & Fiat, poured Billions with nothing to show for Saab, depended on trucks knowing that China's economy (& energy needs) was growing at double digit rates---C'mon, man.

You can hate on me---but they've done ALL the damage themselves. Don't worry about hurting Rick's feelings---he made sure to make his Golden Parachute bankruptcy-proof---how about that for confidence in your leadership ability?

First of I do not hate you nor hate anybody. You are trying to show a different perspective of looking at potential problems GM was, is and will have. I have never believed in golden parachutes, as for one it puts complacence in the leader which is the worst thing to have. It is like Genghis Khan going on a battle and even if he loses he can keep his kingdom, what an irony.

GM has had problems since before Rick. Just because a landslide takes place at a date does not mean it was a near problem that caused it. GM's problems started in the 70's. It may or may not have coincidentally reached the apogee during Rick's tenure. That said, the Fiat fiasco started before he took over in 2003. If you have to blame, I honestly think you should lay the blame on the middle management of GM, because they still do control indirectly the GM screws. It is the middlemen that is killing GM not the big ones apart from their golden parachutes. Another thing which pisses me is the fact that the top execs seem to not have balls against these middlemens in skirmishes. Like the clout of Chevy dealers about Traverse, or some bin counters that still exist.

When I referred to Volt, I was refering to the E-Flex system in general, which will see proliferation in other cars as well. Volt is just going to be the tip of the iceberg if the future holds true. Battery is the most significant part here. And if it fails it is really red flag for GM. GM is concentrating on HCCI and has some development for Hydrogen fuel. I am disappointed that they are slacking on the hydrogen research but at least they are pursuing it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0