PurdueGuy

Regarding the comments about this costing the taxpayers: the "bailouts" are LOANS, not free money. The only instances where the "bailouts" are going to cost the taxpayer anything long-term, is where a company receives a loan and goes bankrupt anyway, and thus does not pay back their loan.

If Toyota were doing true lean manufacturing, they wouldn't have to order production halts, it would just be part of the process when sales/orders drop. Instead they have been doing exactly what lean says not to do - producing to forecasts, which has resulted in overproduction & massive amounts of inventory. Toyota is not everything it's cracked up to be.

Should've sold Saturn to it's employees when they wanted to buy it. Instead it was kept & left to rot, then given half-hearted vehicles.

I was under the impression that the Saturn Corp no longer existed. Saturn was absorbed into the rest of GM a while back, and thus died the separate UAW agreement.

I pretty much agree, though I could see maybe not having the Aura. Saturn midsizers have never sold that well. I could see having a subcompact car. One thing that doesn't seem clear (though I admittedly haven't read everything about that situation) is if the relationship between Buick & Opel is a full one, or partial. I'm not sure I can see a Buick Corsa, or even Astra, though maybe that is the kind of thing that Buick actually needs. I could see Buick getting all the larger Opels, Saturn getting the smaller ones. That keeps the investment in Saturn small...

I almost like this. The return of Saturn to being focused on small cars would be wonderful, IMO. I think we have seen with the Astra, though, that hatches don't sell well enough for Saturn to survive on them. They need sedans too.

212hp for 3439lbs? That 4-pot's not going to be setting any records, that's for sure. Will be interesting to see how easily modified it is to crank that hp up, though.

The Saturn dealers sometimes come out better on price overall, depending on the situation. They generally give more money for trade-ins, since they aren't doing the slight-of-hand show that many other dealers do, where they'll give you more off of the price of the car, but give you less for your trade-in. And it's not like Saturn dealers don't have special deals. Sometimes you will get a better price at Chevy, but sometimes you won't.

I've played with panels on some of the earliest models in junkyards, and not only do they generally still look almost new (most of the time, a few have clearcoat peel), but they still flex pretty well too. Most of the time when you see a saturn with parts that look bad, it's the hood, roof, and trunk lid, which are all metal. I'm not saying that going back to plastic is the right decision for GM right now. It could have appeal, though, and I would be interested to see how implementing it today would compare to how it was before. There could come a time when it makes sense again. There was an article a while back talking about GM considering even using plastic components for some stressed parts, like hinges and such. Panels would be cake, but may take considerable investment to do a car's worth of panels. Still, it seems easier to build a strong, safe car with the spaceframe design, as it's much like designing a roll cage with some panel mounting points on it. It also allows for reduced cost mid-cycle enhancements. (The 2nd & 3rd gen S-Series share identical spaceframes, but have completely unique interiors and exteriors. If I could get a full panel set from an '01-'02 coupe, I could bolt them right up to my '99 and make it look like an almost completely different car.). This could allow for a car to be designed to last 9 years, but with MCEs every 3 years that update the look, feel, and many functions and features of the car. What would require a bigger investment up front may result in lower costs long-term.

Not sure - there could be a small number of exceptions, but they'd likely only be on high end vehicles. I mean, it's not really that hard to make a sensible monitor that simply tells you to change the oil sooner than you'd need to, just to be safe. Like changing the oil at 3k miles - it's almost impossible that the oil is "worn out" by then, but if you have a nice car, it's cheap insurance to keep the car in good shape. With a few simple calculations, manufacturers can make monitors that still "play it safe" but with less waste.

Oil life monitors in general don't come on at any particular contamination level. Many are simply set to come on after a set number of miles, while others calculate based on how the car is driven, miles, etc. None (that I am aware of) have any way of sampling the oil to check for contamination levels, viscosity, etc. They also have no way of allowing for the quality of oil used to begin with, so you could use the off-brand cheapo dino oil and it would turn the light on at the same time as if you used a brand name full synthetic.

Steel bodied ION? *scratches head* The ION still had polymer panels... It honestly sounds like they made major improvements in the materials between the Fiero and the Saturns. There are common rust issues on the first gen SL's rear door sills ('91-'95), but most of the rest of them have very robust spaceframes. I've not seen any broken panels aside from some pretty hard collisions, or lighter hits in extreme cold. Even when that happens, it's cake to replace a panel. Throw in the further materials advancements since, and I personally think the polymer idea is intriguing. The S-Series started in '91, so the design had to be done somewhere in '90. AFAIK, they didn't really change the panel materials in the time they produced the car, so we're talking about materials from 18 years ago. I would bet money that modern materials could likely be tougher, lighter, less expensive, and with less expansion/contraction = smaller panel gaps.

I have never once heard Saturn body panels do this...

no Yaris? *scratches head*

I'll throw in a +1 for the Corsica (and Beretta, same car). I really enjoyed my V6 Corsica up until its auto trans died out of state, and instead of trying to get it towed or fixed, we junked it. It was in great shape for 180k miles, and having been rear-ended. Very good power, etc. I'll also throw in my biased opinion on the S-Series. They were a great seller (well above 200k cars, some years pushing near 300k cars), reliable, easy to work on, good power (at least in the dohc models, not too bad on the mpfi sohc models), safe, durable polymer panels, great fuel economy. Sadly, people obsess over engine noise and panel gaps, and deem them piles. Heck, one article I read had the author claiming that the polymer panels would get brittle and the paint would fade with age. I have seen very few polymer panels look anything but brand new on the oldest S-Series, unless they have been in an accident. What does get to looking bad is the metal hoods, roofs, and trunk lids.

it'll cost too much. Police departments have budgets just like everyone else, and if they can save $5k by buying an Impala instead of this thing, many of them will. I would guess the difference in price would be more than that, simply because of economies of scale.

beautifully done.

IIRC, Lutz has already said he's retiring after the Volt is finished up.

Pontiac has a bunch of outdated cars? G6 came out in '05, is now getting mild refresh If we say the obvious G5=Cobalt, then it came out in '05 G3=Aveo obviously, but at least they just reworked it, so it's pretty fresh (if completely uninspiring) Solstice came out in '06 G8 just came out, what, early this year? late last year? Vibe is new I'd say the G6 & G5 need redone soon, but I'm not sure "a bunch of outdated cars" is a good description. Also don't forget that the Astra isn't really new, just new to us/US. Sky is just as old as the Solstice. Saturn's lineup is newer overall, though.

While I do think the skit should be taken as a joke, the statements of the cars falling apart & catching on fire would be insulting to the men & women who (generally) work very hard to build quality cars. The skit makes fun of many people/organizations, not just the CEOs.

I just can't decide if this is the best or worst time to buy stock in one of the big 3. It could easily be either.

I learned something new - I figured since NUMMI makes the Vibe, that it makes the Matrix too. Seems odd that they would build essentially the same vehicle in 2 different plants...

I like the SSR, and never understood how people could hate it so much. Talk about an awesome cruiser and great collectible.

You have to start comparing to used vehicles to make the G8 sound bad. I take that as a win for the G8. waaaa! pushrods!