regfootball

it wasn't so much the performance of GM's v8's that ruined the rep for the pushrod motors, it was the GM v6's that were left out in the cold for so long while the other maker's passed them by leaps and bounds. Then, GM refused to play catch up. By the time GM got around to making the first 3.6, it took them ten years to get to the point where a lot of the competition had been with that sort of engine.

yeah, again, you're wrong, the cruze's interior materials are good, but not on another level. you're really overstating it. they did a nice job with it, but its not head and shoulders above like you want to believe.

sampled a manual ES today. Very much likey. Did not like the steel wheels and "Geolander" tires combo. Really though for a small CUV it handles nice and has steering feel, the interior layout is very spacious and convenient. Those interested in a CUV with manual will find on the OS that the clutch is light and easy. Very smooth to use. Glides. Almost as easy as a toggle switch. The shifter is the same way. Only a 5 speed (grrrrr), but the thing shifts like butter and is up there with some of the best shifters. The shifter is tall so it makes the throws long, but its like butter. Again, like a toggle switch. Good like the the better VW and Honda shifters. The personality of the vehicle is different when matched to the stick. The engine is smooth and is tractable. Spunky at times, it had good power. It's probably not much if any slower than that Tiguan. My Cobalt doesn't really feel too much, if any, faster. In town stop to stop driving its a very easy drive. Revs nicely. Just goes about its business. Super easy butter lite clutch and shifter. No surprises. But, a 2.4 with more power of course would be welcome. What is really missing here is the sixth gear. It is darn close to epic fail to not add that 6th gear since it would improve things so much. The gear spacing seems wide on the thing. Not a problem, but the rpm is pretty high at 60, 65, 70+ mph. I believe 65mph was around 2750 rpm. You'd probably be at 3k rpm near 75 mph. The CVT versions allows the revs to get lower at those speeds by a noticeable amount. Subsequently, with the manual, the vehicle just gets louder. Not really any louder than the CObalt I drove in with. But the engine is smooth, you just don't think the sound level should get that high. It never sounds strained or rough, it's not a foul sound, it just has a high amount of sound. Some sound attenuation is needed to cut down on the boom. For in town driving its not an issue. Long interstate trips may force you into the CVT which is way quieter at that 70 mph speed. Repeat impressions, nice steering feel and steering wheel. Nice seat comfort, wide butts will like it. Ergonomics really nice except the manual does not get the sliding armrest that the others so. I -really- like the driving position. The interior is nicely done at this price point. Front row comfort and space is more like a midsize or large car, and the backseat has ok space too. It's not luxury, but the plastics are good....simple controls. TO me its an almost perfect setup. Its a nice combination of being able to have the tall hatchback with the nice comfortable driving position and ground clearance and still the vehicle seems carlike. It does not feel large and heavy like the Tiguan. For an urban runner / errand hopper, for someone who wants a compact, tall hatch CUV (when lightly optioned) when mated to the stick it's a decent rig. TO me at least, makes more sense than a sedan of the same kit since you could fold down the rear seats and have more cargo area. More ground clearance, too. A 240hp turbo Ralliart with 6 speed man and AWD with quicker steering and some more tightness in the suspension would be quite the fun getabout actually. Even if they just had put the 2.4 in here with the 6 speed, alone that would be a nice package. As it is the only gripes I have aside from needing the extra 6th gear here for me to enjoy it in base form would be just to get alum wheels and some better tires on it. I'd get the sliding armrest and get a little more sound deadener in there. The 6th gear alone would do wonders, in town its not an issue but on trips I would need to want it. At higher price levels, the value equation is not there....once you add the glass roof, and some of the other stuff. And, the competition in the segment is pretty stiff now as the new Sportage and Tucson are both good. I thought the Sportage felt cheaper in terms of interior materials and it had a slightly cheap and loose feel to it that is not present here. I prefer the OS to the Sportage myself although i foresee the Sportage being far more popular.

i was at the hyundai dealer today looking at the other vehicle i was lookin at and they had an Elantra Limited on the showfloor. Damn nice. the interior is as nice or nicer than the Cruze. I'm on record after driving both (including the Cruze multiple times) that basically the two cars are a wash. Each has strong points and advantages. You simply have so much GM koolaid pumped into your system, and are so effing stubborn, you cannot for one moment digest the fact that the Elantra is going to kick some major ass in this segment, and when it comes right down to it, the Cruze is no better than the Elantra. The Elantra is a bangup car and your lack of objectivity in the matter is really frightening. That, and the Cruze is not all of that and box of cotton candy. The Verano is a Buick Cruze with 5k more tacked onto the price. Nice car, but its not going to make a huge dent in the market. The Cruze isn't the slam dunk NVH monster you think either. It's quiet after it settles down and doesn't need to shift, but in town driving that little lawn mower engine under hood is quite the buzz bomb in stop and go the way most folks drive these days. The Elantra doesn't need to wind up as much. The Elantra is a fetchin car. It actually reminds me of what a modern day Alero might look like. I bet an Olds logo on the front and an Alero badge on the back would be perfectly in character to the styling of the car.

love the car. nice perspective on the writeup.

hyundais are nice to a certain price point. their interiors are plenty good to live up to their price. that is the thing. at a much higher price, sure they become subject to criticism. but rest assured they make every effort to give you close to the whole package for the price they charge. the elantra's biggest fo paws are the vanity mirror and the headliner. whoppdedoo. everything else is a solid job. GM cars always had bad headliners too, the thing was that was on top of all the other big problems they had.....dated powertrains, uncomfortable and cheap interiors, NVH issues, high price, questionable reliability. hyundai, they are now meeting the standard on most of the car of what people expect at that price, and they are in some cases offering more, which allows them to be compared to what was considered uplevel competition. when that happens it just makes it more of a challenge for the Veranos of the world. Nice is nice, but Americans really shy away from spending too much on compacts of any ilk. especially the likes of Verano which to some may just end up being the new age Grand Am. I know my friend who bought the sonata limited they just love it. they were not super discriminating, but they also were not camry freaks. and they shopped hard. the kias like the optima are even better. verano basically won't sell in much volume with so many midsizers going as cheap or cheaper and really in the end pretty close to or the same quality inside. verano might be a 40k unit car for buick.....25k if they are lucky.......in the US our concept of luxury is also tied to stretch out comfort and space, that is inbred. if you feel cramped its like punishment. few folks will pay more for a smaller car that really doesn't provide much benefit in other areas. especially a somewhat damaged brand like buick........if too many of those veranos are going for 26k and over, that is where the volume drop off will be. i don't think buick really wants the verano to be huge volume anyways. hell i know the verano might be a nice car.....but a Kia Optima turbo with panarama sunroof and heated cooled seats and heated steering wheel for the same price with lots more room, um, duh, why get a Verano..... Buick just won't have the brand equity to sell a Buick Cruze for too much money. they'll snag some folks. but they are really testing the preconceived notions of the American public on how far they will go to spend on a compact. Like hyper alludes to, a lot of it is CAFE forcing the issue. remember this verano was supposed to be a saturn. i am not sure a 30k saturn was the original plan.

i think as crucial as the powertrain data is on these engines, its all pretty tough to digest unless you got some curb weights to go with it. GM needs to cut the fat. for market reasons too, we need to know that this car will have AWD on the option sheet or its pretty much DOA in the market.

nice rig, congrats! the Terrain is a sharp looking ride.

especially since those all get better mpg..... no one is going to buy an expensive GM compact just for the brand.

these days I am excited by any car that doesn't drain my bank account, doesn't require trips to the shop, and has lots of tech options. And one that gets around nicely in all this miserable effing snow this year.

yeah, that indeed does sound like it, GM will need to demonstrate it pretty soon. I doubt they are incapable, I think its all about manufacturing issues and money with GM most of the time. And execution.

AU's biggest seller is a niche volume here.... i see the difference.....problem with gm is they never do ANY of that....

trinacriabob, welcome to C&G.

04 Endeavor had em too.

exactly / LMAO IMO all that is happening right now is just a further repackaging of all the same stuff that has occurred since o, 88 or so when the W bodies came out. The new cruze is the new grand am the new regal is just the new midsize the XTS is a new DTS and that's not really bad. we have the Volt, but perhaps a new Fiero would have been more exciting. at the same time, people are drawn to buying off the shelf.

camry + accord + altima + (name the other fwd appliances) = the sales positively dwarf the commodore (aU+export) not saying the commodore doesn't matter at all, but you gotta really place it in perspective. it's easier for the beancounters to euthanize it. the one little kid in the back row in class is lucky to be heard at all.

the astra hatches would still be what i would most be interested in besides the Regal. Undiluted. I think a Riviera should be AWD. AWD should be on the Regal option sheet too.

the best selling car in AU sold less than 50k units..... chump change......

one never buys a vw. you lease vw's and only within warranty period.

just to note on the lease issue. the LS lease is majorly subsidized. The LT's are not near as attractive. Clearly the current leases are for ad fodder, and that's ok. The LT lease is still not bad per the guesstimate numbers I was given. Something about 2 percent money and a 5% residual advantage for the LS over the LT. What i was told, a legit question, i asked what the buyout was at the end of the lease. I am not sure if this is an ALLY/GMAC thing but there is a nasty POISON PILL in this lease. You used to have a buyout fee of an additional 500 bucks if you wanted to keep and buy the car. In the instance I asked about i was told that fee got raised to 2500 dollars. This to practically guarantee you would turn in the car, and get a new one, and they would have a lightly used off lease unit to put up for bids to their dealers. With that poison pill, I just think you gotta look at buying the car. Not leasing it.

I took an LS manual out last evening. Unfortunately it was a shorter drive than I would have preferred. And, a lot of it was spent in BTB rush hour traffic. At the same time, that is a real world situation and is actually a nice test for that. Also it was at night. Really just summarize that quickly. I really wanted to compare that to my Cobalt which I drove up in and to the other Cruze with the turbo. Myself and salesguy loaded into the car (usually I prefer to go on drives alone) and the first thing that is apparent is at least in manual form, the Cruze is quiet/er than the Cobalt. I also felt it was as quiet or less so (will explain that) than the turbo. And even though I didn't get to ring it out I have to say I was not upset over a lack of grunt in any of the situations I encountered. In fact, coming off the freeway up an incline and flooring the throttle produced quite a bit of go. And the cruising rpm in 6th was a little lower than I expected; in that situation the car is very quiet too. The six speed manual helps, you have 1st as your get going gear, but second is an extremely handy gear for 'acceleration'. 2nd and the torque band of the engine are very well matched to make the car feel spunky. The engine revs nicely and is decently smooth. It's not as frenetic as the little buzz bomb in the turbo. Third and fourth are handy gears too. I thought the ratios were spaced nicely, and also what I liked was that 6th was not a big drop from 5th. Just allowed you to drop the rpm just a little for quieter cruising. Everything else about the LS seemed to match the positives of an LT. Wide and stable, I still think there are some seat adjustability issues, the dash is great. The ride still feels a bit harsh although a little softer with the base tires. I don't really mind that because the good quick steering and solid handling in corners is still there. As for the clutch and shifter on the LS. The clutch is lighter than my cobalt by a fair amount. It has a long travel. Feels ok, has a much more definite engagement point. Doesn't glide, not among the best I have encountered. For the LS, its pretty good. The shifter is a nice knob. The location is initially weird, it seems like its back a little far. But that could be just the difference between getting out of my car and into this one. It's weird because the shifter is not tall so you think the throws are short, but the throws are actually longer than you are expecting. The gearbox is not slick like most VW's and some Hondas are. It's way improved over the Cobalt though. It's a decent gearbox, but its got some weirdness locating the gears initially and there is some notchiness and resistance that maybe goes away. Overall, I didn't have objections to the gearbox. The LS overall was very drivable. It surprised me. I'll need to find one for a longer drive. Non leather steering wheel has molded grips and is thick and feels great too. Still, after adjusting the front for my 6'1" bod with short legs and moving the seat up as far as I can tolerate with my knees practically up in the dash....there is still inadequate leg room in the back. Yes, one can get into the back. But your knees are on the seatback and your legs are splayed. The Jetta and Elantra have big advantages in leg room. Its embarrassing for a car with this huge of wheelbase to lack that rear seat space. Of course the room was taken away from the back seat and its all in the engine compartment, with twice the room needed for the hamster wheel that is under there. The LT2 I drove must have been a flashed unit. There was a noticeable improvement in some of the driving behavior. It was not enough of an improvement to give it a gleeful endorsement. It's merely enough to say it won't be a huge headache. It did not seem as determined to keep reaching for and holding a higher gear so much. And it had a fairly reduced amount of indecisiveness. It wasn't hunting as much; and there were no bouts of waiting for what seemed like forever for the car to make up its mind as in my previous tests. It still was shifting too much in some of the situations I was in compared to other cars. If you are just cruising at 70 mph, the car isn't shifting, everything is fine, its a great little FRISKY engine for that. The rest of the time, the car is a bit of a buzzbomb, the little engine that can, but you get tired of it working so hard and revving so much. You seem to have to develop this all on or all off sort of thing with your throttle foot that is annoying. It's zippy and no one should complain about the amount of power if you are always gunning it, and there is no turbo lag. It's just making too much theater about propelling the car. Makes you wonder why a nice 2.0 with about 160hp wouldn't just have been a better decision. Or a 2.4. Or a 1.6 or 1.8 turbo. One where just a partial throttle surge will just quietly downshift and give you a gentle and efficient surge. Really makes me want to try the Jetta now. The dealer said cruise can be added aftermarket by a local customizer to the LS for 400 bucks. And, the LS has manual mirrors, which is a headache. Chevy is blatantly telling the customer FU by limiting the LS in this regard. Not good business. At least we didn't get black door handles, should we PTL for that progress in motown? Advice to Chevy. Please add cruise, power mirrors, sunroof, SWAC, alum wheels, remote start, heated seats to the option sheet on the LS. You'd have a nice little everyday car. Maybe make it a 2.0 too.

that word 'vitriol' has sure been bouncing around a lot these last few days........

the Passat went downmarket so the CC appeared and could exist more upmarket. VW was not going to achieve world domination selling the stuff they had at the prices they wanted. They determined more copies at a cheaper price was needed and to do so they would have to reduce it to an LCD....... The CC can still be the CC and now the Passat next to it on the lot will look a lot different than it. How VW will gain share with this car will be entirely dependent on model mix. I see few of the v6. I think they should have kept the turbo in the mix somewhere. I'll prob keep an open mind about this car myself. I thoroughly enjoyed driving my staid looking 500 for 3 years with its upright 2D dashboard and unimaginative features. To some degree there is a similar approach here. If there is more value in the mix, but the style is a bit more dull but its not like say, a mazda3, then i want to see the prices, and i want to see if it drives well. There may be a configuration of this new Passat that is below 25 grand and feels spunky, and provides some kit....along with space that one can't find in say a chevy cruze or buick verano. Maybe VW wised up that they couldn't gain cred with W8's and really pricey Passats. when does this thing hit showrooms?

so Buick is not sport injected on this car. I would dare say NO, YOU ARE NOT. of course compact cars shouldn't weigh 3400 pounds and at 3400 pounds they should have good leg room all around.

sort of moronic and contradictory to say the alpha will have limited application due to 'exotic materials and construction' but in the next paragraph to say that zeta will need to adopt lightweight high tech materials to stay relevent. as if what, the 'lightweight and high tech materials' aren't expensive in either application? wtf.