turbo200

now that is an interior and exterior to die for.

you kinda walked right into that one with your general general statement up there. but I'll say I wouldn't try to figure people out, some, it's just thier preference, and you're not going to get anywhere trying to change thier mind. While I love the idea of a wagon, and would totally swing for the Sportcombi if I wasn't heterosexual [-heh, jk~!]; but I actually really prefer the look of the X5 to any other SUV/wagon in BMWs lineup. Call me crazy...

I think it looks great. Call it a major improvement over the current one.

your opinion may be that 5 is not much better than 3. However, OC's argument was that STS was not an upward move because of a less striking design and the size issue. Come on and read with me what evok just said up above, the size difference is significant. Sales also draw the conclusion that most people do think the 5-series is worth it, whereas much much less people think STS is worth it. Instead of going off of one friend's opinion, you should try giving both some seat time and discovering the advantages of both on paper and in person.

okay,....or they just buy them for the occasional flexibility they think they'll want to take advantage of for the trip home from Home De Pot.

5-series dimmensionally is pretty dramatically larger than 3-series. Most would say the 5-series is more polarizing a design than the 3, but at least they both seem to follow the same design language, STS and CTS are practically indistinguishable, their stacked headlamps/taillamps are ubiquitous and indifferentiable from afar, yet they look like they were designed by two different schools of thought. You are also judging by just one trim level of the 5.

yes. this is a well designed car with a lot of appeal, and the price is incredibly right. Think about it, the Rendevous goes for this MSRP, think of how much better this truck is, it is a quantam leap over that truck. Lambdas all are hitting the right spots and should easily go for MSRP.

That's pretty much what I'm trying to say, but I like the name Commodore, I don't know it sounds good.

There is no debating this point. I would like for it to be better built if you are going to skimp on the art, though. It should have strength if those guys are gonna be putting tools up there, I'm not advocating hard plastic here, but plastic that won't budge or move around. I don't think the version I sat in, a $32k truck, was a work truck either, and it had the quad cab. But, for the intended market, these will more than satisfy. And I admit I'm being unfair, because I really have not set them up against thier real competition, F-150 and Tundra, on the same day, apples to apples. I just thought, apples to apples, Ridgeline has a better made/designed interior, even though Sierra obviously has its own advantages over Ridgeline. EDIT: Are you saying I'm one of those yuppies? :AH-HA_wink:

If I'm not mistaken, Aztek based somewhere around and pretty close to the 20k mark. In that arena we've got the CR-V, the Rav, Escape [that was later like '03, Aztek debuted '01], and maybe Xterra, I can't really think of anymore. Well, when the CR-V debuted in '02 it was considered the standard. Now I've driven the Rendevous but never Aztek, and I can say your opinion of it is pretty much what I felt, I would say it was quiet, engine power was adequate but nothing overwhelming, very soft boaty floaty, and an all around sturdy feeling but not tank-like like a German car would be. CR-V I would discribe as precise and direct, but engine power is only adequate nothing invigorating, it's not quiet, it doesn't feel as sturdy/solidly damped as the 'Vous did simply because this is where Honda saves weight, but the steering and handling are direct, just not particularly exciting since there's no engine power and the tinny wheels give up pretty soon. What's the point of all this, you say ? Well, I think it was more than a good value, I think it was pretty well matched with its contemporaries in its class and price range. Highlander was above it, even though size wise the Aztek was probably a bit bigger, but you couldn't get a base Highlander for what you could get an Aztek, and certainly not when you factor in real world prices.

the only thing I don't like about the SRX is its lack of a real identity. It doesn't match the exterior character of the car, I don't know this looks like it belongs in a Lucerne, not the edgy SRX. The materials and presentation look to be there, except the gauges which look dinky, though I have never sat in the car so my mind could change on the quality. I think it's a tremendous improvement quality-wise especially which was the most important fix that was necessary, just that now the interior is rather bleh.

imo, the dash has more design to it, more taste, more creativity. let's leave the materials aside for a second and focus on the look, the gauges and steering wheel look more expensive/look more professional/look nicer, the upper dash design seems more substantial looking while also looking less fat [i don't know how to explain this better, just look at it I guess], the lines are more appealing on the upper dash, the center stack flows has creativity has lines and it looks ten times more classy with BMWs no frills stereo design and quality wood, GM's center stack is like every other GM center stack, like a log with a dimple in the middle no design appeal no lines just a round pod attached to a log. Creative door panel design only add to that quality feel. However, this is not a fair comparison, SRX versus X3 is fair and I see you have that too. Aside from what's listed above, the experience when you sit in the car is of a much better made car in the X3, the Impala feels unfinished and raw.

a lot of people would be embarrassed to say they owned a GM brand outside of Cadillac and Hummer. Now that GM has the product, some of it at least, and especially the Saturn lineup, they need to push it more and better. I think the Aura commericials convey a good image, but I hope they start going with something more in your face and ballsy, something that says I am Saturn bitch, move out of the way, in a less extroverted way.

hahacamoed car wins!

for its time I think it was actually a pretty decent vehicle, especially in the price range it competed in. Sure it didn't really offer anything new, but its combination of value and utility were second to none. Now the exterior on the other hand.......

they were happy overall with the truck. some of their complaints are things GM should have taken care of in development sessions. grocery bag hooks may not seem like such a big deal to the average guy here, but for parents hooks are ideal. GM needs to buy Hondas and dissect every element of the truck, and improve on this. The sliding fore and aft feature is something that is available on the previous generation CR-V, and is handy for when mothers want to feed thier children or attend to them in the second row for whatever reason, also it frees up space for the third row. The no grab handles issue again is a convenience issue that can help for a lot of reasons. It just screams to me of GM not sweating the details, being detail-oriented instead of cutting corners. None of this makes them bad trucks, however, some extra attention wouldn't hurt.

How is the name Commodore dated compared to GP if most people cannot even remember a Commodore existed. This car is about changing perceptions, complementing Solstice and building a new image for Pontiac. Will a new Gran Prix achieve this? Not in the day and age where Grand Am and Gran Prix were not relevant choices in the marketplace, instead blue light specials. I am a firm believer in not giving up on nameplates, but Pontiac is not well respected. People could care less about this brand, its history, or any of its product. Because the product has been underwhelming for a very long time. In the late 90s, the GP was an attractive design, but it was clear it wasn't a modern design anymore, the overhangs and overall size of the car were not evoking a sporty image. It was desirable to some......more than the current GP has been, and especially because it's not really an improvement over that old car, the design became more garish and less appealing, the interior is unattractive and poorly laid out and has cheesy quality that's why a 25k GP sells for 20k, and the performance has been changed but not enough to keep up. I still am not buying the Commodore is dated argument simply because it was a nameplate that was used in the 50s. So was the Bel Air, and no one was complaining when the name was being considered for the Impala's successor. That name has so much more recognition than "Commodore". And so one or two people on this forum respond to the name......it wasn't negative, and I will assure you if it's called Gran Prix so soon after the current one dies, there will be many who will look at the car negatively just based on the name. I beleive Gran Prix can be cool again, but first Pontiac needs to be restored, and then give GP a chance to be recognized again. It's shameful the kind of car it is today, really. It may sound snobbish or arrogant or whatever you want to call it, there's no way I would own that kind of car. I don't believe Commodore is the best name for the Pontiac sedan, there could be a better name for it, but it's not Tempest or Lemans or Bonneville, or anything in Pontiac's repertoire if you ask me.

okay I am young so I don't remember nor do I care that Commodore was used before. I do, however, know of the GP. It is junk, has been so, for a while now. It was nice back in '99, then it was desirable. It lost its luster long ago, and is now a rental special, in my mind. I think Commodore would be more fitting. the other reason I beleive this is beacuse if the VE car shows up on our shores it will only yield about 40k at the MOST, 20k at the least. This leaves room for another car in between the G6 and "Commodore", when Zeta is ready it can accomodate a Gran Prix, in between these two cars. By this time, maybe the brand Pontiac will have more strength, and a Gran Prix can be readily accepted. And about the enthusiasts remark--many enthusiasts know the name from Holden so what's so LOL about that?

I have a great idea for the Commodore if it ever comes here as a Pontiac next year. I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I plan on it soon. I figured out a great name for this Pontiac that would give it instant name recognition among enthusiasts, and also create a new legend and new sound for Pontiac among buyers. The new name would be....Commodore! think of it Pontiac Commodore. That actually sounds powerful. It actually evokes good feelings, unlike the Pontiac Gran Prix, which is engrained in my mind at least, as being a cheap rental car with catastrophic proportions and a cheap dashboard. Most import buyers will feel the same way about GP, so Commodore would be a new start.

xterra?

yes but these are terribly terribly terribly unoriginal, uninspired boxes of $h!ty plastic that don't translate any character whatsoever. thank you for your point though.

This is great news. It sucks that the plan they are following is one enthusiasts on this website have been pushing for so long, and it took them this long to listen. They should call C&G an advisory board. EDIT: hold for laughs from thousands. yes, there are more than a few enlightened here.

how is interest and reactions going at your dealer for the 900 pickups?

Yes Yes, finally someone with sense speaks up. On with the product onslaught. your post is replete with good points and to futher your point with examples, how many times have we seen recent examples of product changine the tone of publicity for companies? how many? go ahead and think about it.. LX cars jetta altima G35 new G35 legacy GT Lexus GS, LS MB S-class, CLS

different strokes for different folks i guess to flybri, what I think is that most honda buyers, and import buyers in general, have been pretty spoiled by the pleasantries and tasteful things they find in thier cars. I think it will be hard to woo those buyers from other manufacturers unless you outdo them at what they are best at. Otherwise, you are competing for a diminishing pool of loyal customers, since we all know it isn't the imports that are losing share but GM. You would be surprised at how many Ridgeline buyers would settle for any pickup, but they liked the fact that it's a Honda truck [hard to beat that I know] and that it rode and drove very well. Then again, there really weren't many buyers at all for it, and that's not a point I am debating. So Ford and GM clearly have the formula for success down, but I figured they would have gone out of thier way to improve on it in every way, and especially with GM's own words about it, I expected the new 900 interior to seriously blow the F-series out of the water. The two dash thing is a Ford idea in the first place, and I just don't think it's anything near excellently executed. It's just average, what's in place there. And to me, that's never been good enough. To cater to that 50%, or begin to hope to cater to them, you have to have something that is going to impress the $h! out of them. Like this: Lexus SUV owner:" my friends are like damn our truck has a really great ride and it just looks and feels so luxurious, they couldn't stop going on and on about it, now it's a GMC, but I usually trust this guy's word, so I'm going to take a look at it, the Lexus does have 50k miles on it now, our lease will be up soon, and we want our new truck to have the same capability but an even tougher image, cause that's what we want." same Lexus buyer: "I went to check out the GMC truck and it was way more impressive than our Lexus, it was the most impressive truck I've ever seen. That is hard to imagine, and the look of the truck, I love it, I never felt that way about the Lexus. I'm gonna get it." So on and so forth. If A Mercedes Benz E-Class driver can be sold on a Civic [i did it ], then anything can happen.