turbo200

the idea and execution of this car will surely piss me off.

hehe, ya i saw a magnum SRT on a lot recently.....the enhancements convert it into a real sport wagon, and are real nice. 10k "fair market" adjustment! I wanted to share with them all the ideas I just had about the way they do thier business.

i get the same feeling....a lot of thier cars have really great designs and are/were a lot more foward-thinking than GM's...but there's that Ford name rearing its ugly presence.

torrent could have been done much much better......as is being shown with the latest GM DAT concepts on Theta. Torrent could have been more thoroughly designed and creative in so many ways......badge engineering at its worst...Torrent could have been an entrant to set that segment on fire, instead there isn't even much of a reason to review one in the car mags...it's the same as last year's Eck.

The Astra will no doubt be coming here in the form of a Saturn Astra [saturn just trademarked the name] around 2009. Anytime before then seems too soon for GM to get all the federalizing and sourcing issues worked out. Any current Astra derivative probably won't be built here until that time when GM figures out where to build the Saturn Astra. So the G5 will be just another Cobalt. Remains to be seen just what kind of Cobalt it'll be though.

FOG, your genuine GM enthusiasm took these figures too far. GM has said that there was an increase in fleet sales for the month of January. Don't say something now that will make you eat crow later. It's cool to be enthusiastic about this bit of positive news, but this year there is a long road ahead towards GM getting back on stable grounds. I believe we're at the beginning of "Return of the King" trilogy at this point in GM's current situation....

You're looking at the wrong car. according to that list, Grand Prix had 52% fleet sales. GM itself admitted in another press release today that sales for this month were artificially increased by a surge in fleet sales......hence the logic in Cspec's 70% guess.

but for the last three years or so, as the MSRP ballooned into the one you quoted. The Tahoe began its last generation as a much cheaper vehicle and ended as a heavily incentivized one. I think it's far too early to start ringing the bells of success, but it's good news nonetheless.

too many Flying Spurs to keep track of. Saw another Solstice today. There's an old Citreon parked outside the gym I work out at. Good story, LA, sounds just like a guy in a Yukon Denali from LA.

[quote name='CaddyXLR-V' date='Feb 1 2006, 03:19 PM'] :) props Before the sale means pre-1999 when Saab became fully owned by GM. At that time, at least from my perspective and what the general public thought of Saab-is that they were fun, quirky, premium, and cool in an elusive way. The convertible helped the perception in young people's eyes. [post="83808"][/post] [/quote] From my perspective, Saab was pretty much non existant. The only reason I found out what Saabs look like, is because GM bought Saab. I think I heard of Saab once, and saw none,before 1999. [post="83814"][/post] [/quote] they were pretty rare, but that's part of my argument for them. The Euro, eccentric look that nobody else shared, the beloved convertible that was a "special" car since nobody else had one.....all of these things worked in thier favor. I remember my sister asking me about Saab. Some guy in one, who she apparently found attractive, smiled at her. She was a young professional at the time, making a decent salary. I said Saab's were pretty pricey, and she thought they were nice. This is the kind of image and allure a rare car that is somewhat expensive has to the general public. Following that line of thinking, GM needed to produce different cars for Saab that followed thier historical product line, and updated them with great engines, great handling, and Saab's great styling.

Hey, nobody answered my Ghosn questions. Somebody give me thier opinion..... Would Ghosn have made the kind of meaningless, profitless purchase that Saab has turned out to be so far? Would he have let the brand go without an investment to turn it around, and instead let careless rebadges tarnish what little image the brand had?

thanks fly :) that was really good to hear

I knew this already. I've really been concentrating on the years since Saab became fully owned by GM, which was 1999, if I'm correct. Since then, GM has had plenty of time to turn this great brand around but has done nothing about it. Saab has so much talent, that turn out so much with so little money, and yet GM has done nothing with them. Losing Mauer was also a serious blow to them. The concepts he was churning out were terrific.

BMW was a full range maker, but MB introduced thier smaller car line in the '90's. Audi was practically dead before the A4 of '98. Volvo has also expanded thier lineup with much success. I agree with you that not every carmaker has to be full-line. So when GM updated the 9-3 in 2002, why didn't they go ahead and update the 6 year old 9-5 as well? Why have they let the 9-3 rot; uncompetitive engines, chassis not up to the benchmark, this car is now going on 5 years old, and GM still won't have an update for it until maybe 2010 on EPII. That's ludicrous. What a waste. Saab had potential beyond the junior and senior sedan model. GM completely abandoned thier long history of hatchbacks in 2002. What about various sized hatchback models? What about a roadster? What happened to the Sigma utility for Saab? Saab didn't have to add that much, but something beyond an underpowered, overpriced entry level and an old, irrelevant sedan.

I said "before The Sale", meaning 1989. Dude- you were 4 years old. Me, a was already heavily into cars and I can assure you, automotive publications, popular references, 'street buzz' all ignored saab. They got a tiny bit of notice via print ad carpet bombing in the mid-late '80s, but they were never first string considerations OR aspirations for more than a handful of consumers. It may sound harsh, but it's true, I'm afraid. hudson- I agree; saab does not have the appeal nor the ability to sustain a full lineup. [post="83628"][/post] :) props Before the sale means pre-1999 when Saab became fully owned by GM. At that time, at least from my perspective and what the general public thought of Saab-is that they were fun, quirky, premium, and cool in an elusive way. The convertible helped the perception in young people's eyes.

can we petition them not to name it G5? G5 does strongly suggest a hatchback of some sort. I am not keen on the idea of a FWD, rebadged Cobalt. However, if we're talking about a product that is differentiated, meaning new fascias, and perhaps a whole different entry from a standard 2-door coupe, then you've got my attention. If it's just a Cobalt coupe, there is no reason for this other than to take up capacity and appease the dealers.

well, nice way to down on the positive monthly results.

yukons are barely filtering in my area. Local dealer has had loads of Tahoes for about two weeks now, and just one Yukon appeared the other night. WOW! Positive news, for once. Good month all around thankfully, and, hmmmm, are the sticker prices really contributing, are we beginning to see somewhat of an upward momentum thanks to a new Value premise? Lucerne and Lacrosse had a solid month=Buick cars slightly up CTS, DTS up STS holding steady=Cadillac cars up G6 finally had a month similar to Grand Am's heyday, GP good numbers, but for God's sake that car needs a replacement stat HHR whoa! Tahoe! Them are some good numbers. Good showing all around. I really hope the value stickers are fueling this upward tick, and that their permanance helps to bring in more buyers over the next year.

In my neck of the woods, Chicago, they were. Saab was quirky and rare----elusive.....a good thing for cars. I think you're taking this a bit too far. It's not the reason for my rantings on GM--I do it because I'm passionate and see an opportunity for something great to arise from what they are----and because there are people that agree with me, and vindicate what I'm saying. "Extensive forced induction experience"? I'm sure it had more to do with bleeding money and no direction than anything else. and then of course the good guys at GM came in and came up with no plan either. You think Carlos Ghosn would make this kind of meaningless purchase? or would he turn his investment into profit?

okay agree to disagree.......certainly Saab had not much going on for it, except a cool premium, hip Euro image........GM has wasted a lot of time and a lot of potential and have let them languish......sound like something else? ya, GM's entire car lineup

I think one of the insiders already confirmed the next gen Vibe would still be on the Corolla platform.

Cinema Paradiso is one of my all time favorites. Watching it was a wonderful reverie.

GM had a lot of money in 1999 to help Saab and chose not to. Saab is in the dumpers because GM didn't have the foresight to do anything about it ten years ago. Ten years ago, we were witnessing the beginnings of a luxury explosion, with cars like the A4, 3-series, and Passat all seeing sales increases on the back of better product. GM could have produced something along with the 9-3 to better equip Saab to steal some market from those guys. That's my beef.

The kind of thinking that Saab, as a premium Euro brand, has limited appeal and is "niche" only is what has kept GM from exploting its potential. BMW, MB, Subaru, Volvo, Acura, basically every luxury brand out there----a decade ago one could make the same argument that they were niche. Now look where they've gone. Not seeing the explosion in 1999 that was happenning in the luxury segment is one of the bigger doses of shortsightedness at the tubes. GM is completely to blame for not understanding where they wanted to take Saab and how far they could have gone. For the price, the 9-3 is one of the least competitive cars in its class, and yet it sold really well and continues to do decently. Saab should have continued that momentum with a bigger more premium 9-5 befitting of the 45-60k price realm. Further down the line a big Saab would have made sense. In the new millenium branding is one of the most important issues. The next generation of Saab products are a very important line, and GM should see to it they are as distinctive and as premium as possible. Saab could very well become a big profit central in the future if they do.

It should definitely have a screen standard. You know I really feel for that price tag there is nothing special about this car like a 5-series or M45 of this price range would have. A standard color screen would go some way of resolving that feeling.