turbo200

I'm not convined of it either, but product news for Pontiac these days seems more and more distressing.

If the Lacrosse were sticking around, I'm sure it be pretty easy to make this version on our shores. I don't know how well it would fit with the current and future Buicks, it sure does fit with Enclave though. This as a conservative alternative to the Accord and Maxima works well for Buick. W-body production will be ending sometime within the next five years though, I guess not enough time for such an extensive redo. insiders would know more on this though

Inside and out, that Buick is ten times better resolved than our Lacrosse. Though the W-body front hang is there, the nice wheel arches and side skirts do thier best to minimize that. The exterior more elegant than ours, even though it looks like something Holden, Toyota, and MB got together to design, it still looks like it belongs in a higher class than ours. Nothing to say about that interior other than great. This would have been a Lacrosse that would not have disappointed.

I like the SS wheels a lot.

you're right, because of Cadillac's stature in the automotive landscape, and despite thier many fumbles, they were clearly in a better position than Buick and Pontiac are in now.

newbie, how would you say the new tahoes are doing at your dealer?

well I'm glad you're okay. the physical therapy stuff sounds awful, not the therapy itself but the injuries you've sustained. I've been in and out of physical therapy for four years now stemming from several accidents I've had. not to be greedy, but get as much money as you can to seek treatment, go until long after you feel fully healed, symptoms can arise again without notice.

What does it matter? He's probably right. His argument is completely within logic.

Though Cadillac's image has improved tenfold and is now being considered by many more than before; I see mostly older people driving Cadillacs. I'm not talking about 40's either, 50's, 60's and above drive the most Cadillacs around here-----except for the Escalade, a phenomon within itself. As you know the Los Angeles area, the young and old here are tremendously wealthy, the average car around here is a Mercedes or BMW, car mecca for sure, I see plenty of young foreign guys driving around in thier pimped MB CL-classes, CLS, S-class, and of course all Hollywood actresses and BH moms drive SLs. There is still a great market Cadillac is missing out on, for whatever reason the XLR didn't hit the target market like the SL has, also the advantage of having that vaunted badge on the hood. an exciting coupe with drop dead gorgeous styling would help thier image a lot here in the city, as would a more exciting STS. Bottom line, Cadillac still has a ways to go, and increasingly when I check out the drivers of Caddys, excluding the CTS and Escalade, they are a majority the older crowd.

no trying to turn this into a pissing match between toyota and buick, or you and I. simple fact is toyota has been gaining market share, and Buick has been losing market share. Obviously Buick buyers are willing to shop the competition even though there may be the staunchly loyal set; toyota also has buyers that do cross-shopping, but the number is much lower than your average Buick or Chevy simply because a lot of Toyota buyers don't want to consider any other make. VW has a great image among the youth, despite the reliability problems which many have easily overlooked in light of thier great design and perceived quality assembly.

big ditto.

I wasn't saying the Lucerne isn't competitive with the Avalon. They are, right now, a different buyer set, and Avalon buyers wouldn't likely consider a Buick because of a lot of the negative stigma Buick enjoys. Buick, as nice as the Lucerne is, has made some bad apples that are mainly rental vehicles, and is seen as geriatric. The Passat has a completely different buyer set as well that would never consider the Lucerne, in general. Most Passat and Avalon buyers like that they are buying a VW or Toyota, respectively, and just would never consider a Buick. That's something Buick, and to a larger extent, GM, have to conquer.

Toyota is without a doubt the head honcho, and their image is protected for a few reasons: sterling quality, legendary reliability, great cars that meet the target market perfectly, legendary reputation, legendary reputation. BUT, VW enjoys a great perception within the marketplace, and even though the new cars are just beginning to do well [Jetta is doing well], their image is terrific. They have a very youthful image that is reinforced by quality cars with that Teutonic feel. As far as image, they are doing quite well, and will enjoy a prosperous future in the U.S. as long as they focus on what each marque does well. For them, it is entirely about good product, aimed squarely at the young, hip, and aspirational crowd. A VW is a car to be proud of in many circles.

it's beautiful. I was hoping for some strategic changes in the front end design to advance the Saab theme, but since there aren't really any on the road reflecting this theme yet, it's just been on all the concepts since before Mauer left....

good thread. the tahoe sounds wonderful to own. this thread is a one of a kind of c&g---positive ownership experience for a product people are actually excited about! yeah tahoe....this is such a great product, there will surely be more people adding positive comments as long as it stays current.

The image of Buick is really badly tarnished at this point. Like OC said, to convince people to consider Buick among brands like VW, Acura, Audi, Volvo, would take decades of marketing and product efforts. I truly feel it can be done along with maintaining the current audience with more exciting, modern product. The Enclave is the first example of how this can happen. Go to Autoweek and read how many people are saying this is the first Buick they could ever consider, and you will see how just one product can incur a sea of change. Now, just transfer everything that makes Enclave so good, class leading interior design and materials, elegant and sporty/modern exterior, far reaching design cues; transfer this onto cars for Buick, that are truly relevant in today's marketplace. I maintain the only way Buick will be around is with cars like the Velite that are romantic, distinctly American in nature, yet completely sophisticated in design. The Velite is not totally American in design. Cars like it, with RWD are necessary. RWD has increasingly become a premium feature, and the more automakers that start to produce expensive RWD cars, which is happening, the more this will be true. Buick does have a role to fill within GM. Sports cars/sedans is where Pontiac needs to be, with extreme styling. Cadillac serves extravagant tastes, extravagant features, and great performance, ultimate luxury. Saab is European and has distinctive Saab design along with more utility in thier hatchback models [all Saabs should be hatches or coupes in the future, imo]. Saturn serves a slightly premium audience of Chevrolet. Chevrolet is the mass market brand with classy features, classy design, and great quality. All that's left is Buick----the cushy, but modern competitor to the likes of Lexus [though dramatically lower priced and with lesser tech] and VW. Passat is a good target for where Buick needs to head in the future. They can also have a smaller RWd competitor to the S40, TSX, and lesser models of A4 and C-class---call it Skylark and build it off of Camaro. This would take a lot of effort, wouldn't work well until at least the second generation of product.......but as seen with Cadillac, a brand can go from geriatric to cool as fast as you can say what the hell is that new car [CTS] and where did GM inherit this platform from [sigma].

Saturn won't be going after Acura, Audi, Volvo, or anyone else in the entry level luxury crowd. Aura will contend with Camry, Accord, Passat, etc.....when pricing is released for Aura it will line right up with Camry and Accord. This is what GM is hoping to finally have in Saturn, a viable import competitor. Malibu and G6 all priced under the competition. Impala and Grand Prix are bigger cars and offer more powerful engines for similar price, regardless of if that content is especially inspiring or competitive. Research GM has done has shown the Saturn brand is the brand people least associate with GM, and all the negative baggage GM has. Research has also shown Saturn is the brand import customers will consider before considering any GM brand. Combine this with the best customer satisfaction surveys this side of Lexus, and you will see why Saturn has a potential unseen by GM anywhere else. Buick is completely different from Saturn, no question. And the target market Buick continues to pursue with the current product, with thier outdated platforms, ungainly proportions, and unquestionably mature styling is completely different from Saturn. Saturn has exciting product coming. Lucerne doesn't register on the list of people considering cars like Passat, or Avalon for that matter, but for different reasons. Lucerne has a mature look and Buick has a fogey image that VW doesn't have, and thus a Passat becomes more desirable to young people than anything Buick could ever produce.

bin laden hasn't been the face or focus for some time now.....the insurgents in iraq are posing just as big of a problem and are proving to be "undefeatable" like bin laden. enzora is right, this has become a much much bigger war than bin laden, too many organizations and threats against us now....

off topic: I saw my first Escalade on the road on Saturday in Encino, CA......my local Caddy dealer had one on the showroom for about two days, gone now. They also had three others that haven't shown up in the showroom or on the lot anywhere except for one. I imagine the other two sold already too.

I believe the reorganization of Lambda launches is recent news.....or it's just being revealed to us. Ah-ha talked about it on his site, stating the launch dates are now all within two months of each other. Saturn and GMC will start production first, then Buick. What does this mean? Good news. Buick needs Enclave like men need women, lots. And GM needs all the good car launches they can get this year, so it's definitely good news. And we will see the car on the streets either the late late part of this year, or early early part of next year.

awesome. look forward to reading this

It's Chapelle, ocn, a genius of comedy and interpretations. EDIT: just looking at it for more than a few seconds will make me laugh because of his body motions....so like Chapelle.

Without having the thread to reference, he implied there was going to be a serious rethinking of the Outlook going on. In fact, Josh, you're still inferring something is going to go on we don't know about by saying you're expecting an apology. we already know it's been delayed a couple of months, so what is it exactly we're gonna be apologizing for? Are you still implying this fully developed vehicle is gonna be canceled? I'm sorry to further this more, I should just drop it, but you keep furthering it with your holier than thou posting. Josh, you're going to do much greater things in life than this, don't expect an apology and take some humility pills. My biggest problem was the inferrence of serious issues going on with the Outlook, much more than a simple delay, as well as the usage of the word "shelved" in the title. Finally, if you never implied canceled, then why did so many people interpret that? Obviously there was something there suggesting there were serious problems going on. Then, when everyone went on to have a meltdown, why the heck didn't you step in and pacify things......reminding everyone the only sure thing was a slight delay, and that in fact speculation of "cancellation" was premature. Instead, you just let a few thousand people lose some hope in GM. I still say, you must post a retraction and highlight it on the first page. The message implied, IMHO, was of cancellation, or at least serious problems, and you let everybody believe it and spread the word. Be a professional, it doesn't make you lesser to admit that you posted something incorrectly, all the biggest news publications have to do it, and it's the correct way of assuming responsibility as well as gaining credibility and acknowledging the main goal of factual reporting....Accept the criticism and admit you're wrong, it's only one critique, you'd be the bigger man if you accept there was something you could have done better.

The Torrent, Equinox, SRX, like many GM products are cars that have good fundamentals, but the quality and the attention to detail is sorely missing. The fixes that would need to be made are EASY, and yet the result of not having that quality in place is atrocious. Makes these cars appear and feel much cheaper than they COULD. To think that these glaring issues could so easily be fixed and improved on, if GM only sweated the details, is sad.

Multiple paths and creative ideas are the way to take GM's brands. It should no longer be constituted that Chevy's have to feel cheaper than Pontiac or Buick should have more expensive MSRPs than Pontiac. It is not a question of pricing but of image and the right product. Give Pontiac nothing but performance machines with exotic styling, base engines and content can lower the MSRP, but there should be no confusing a Pontiac for a Chevy. Buick must be entry level luxury. That's it. Romantic styling, mysterious looks, dramatic round curves, Enclave is the embodiment of this. Quality interior with some of the best of materials GM has to offer. MSRP should reflect thier entry level status. Saturn can continue to be a slightly upscale Volkswagen competitor they are headed towards. Chevy needs to be the everyday man's car, with upscale appointments that everday man can be proud of and great design that everyday man can be enthusiastic about. Cadillac is perfect where it is headed towards---ultimate luxury and performance along with cutting edge style like BMW, MB, Audi, Porsche, etc....This is what the brand "ladder" should be, not a literal ladder, but brands that are marketed distinctly, have a real image, and are targeted directly with direct messages...