turbo200

that's exactly what I was thinking.

congratulations! I'm looking at buying something different soon too. Have fun with your new ride!

yep, ah-ha talked about this. astra is a perfect name for a compact. bring it over as is saturn.

Wilmington already only builds RWD--solstice and sky. Since the tooling for the Saturn L-series is there, and they have capacity for another 150k vehicles, something has got to go there. Spring Hill, I believe is scheduled for Theta Epsilon vehicles, or something involving Theta---someone with more information can chime in perhaps? I am almost certain Camaro will be produced in Wilmington---not because of any direct insider knowledge, but hearing what various insiders and non-insiders have said. Bob Lutz talking about Wilmington being a plant under consideration is also probably the biggest direct clue. That man can't keep his mouth shut for the sake of his life--i'm glad for that!

The reason so many of us seem to amplify this issue is because it has been one of the damned biggest issues with GM for a long time. And if this is supposed to be the harbinger of what's to come, and the latest product round is supposed to prove to America they will be around for decades to come, then they better bring all they've got. It's an issue we've bitched and moaned about for many years here. I don't think any of us don't acknowledge the improvements that've been made, but a lot of the time we can't hold back disappointment that the best wasn't brought out.

I can agree with that. The average buyer of the Lucerne won't be quite as focused on the design and materials as I am. And the Lucerne is a wholly competitive car with the Avalon, on nearly every level and in a lot of respects is better. Thus making it completely competitive, and not any better or any worse [though the styling would sway me towards the Buick truthfully].Croc said Lucerne interior isn't befitting of what a Buick should be, and on that note I totally agree with. However, that just detracts from the overall experience of Lucerne, it doesn't make it a bad car by any stretch of imagination. A Buick interior should be more special in my mind, for the position they want to achieve. It's not enough to sway people from buying it, as evidenced by early sales numbers. I believe Lucerne will keep the momentum going well into next year, and when the Enclave comes around, the two cars will help keep Buick alive, and give it a much higher class image. EDIT: bolded content

MPHmag posts on here, I believe he's a writer for the magazine.

I believe it may, but it's too early to get excited about that causing a decline in sales. It doesn't seem to be enough of a setback to cancel the chances for growth. It will all have to do with how much of a market there will be for a Toyota pickup truck.I am fully confident the GM trucks will give nothing to the new Tundra. The interior of the Tundra while stylish, is too bold, and not as inviting as the Tahoe's interior. Knowing Toyota, the quality and materials will be there, however I don't think the GMT 900s will be behind too much, if at all, in this regard. The exterior of the 900s is what's left to impress. Gonna have to wait until September for that, I guess.

just so you know Cananopie that wasn't a dig at you, or others here, and I don't think you've sat in both....I was just highlighting how I thought empowah is a pretty constructive, objective person.

yes, the fact that Impala and Malibu only sell just over 100k to the public means they are not accepting and buying it on thier own as much as Chevy would have us believe....which means there is a big problem with both. Camry sells something like 65k units to fleet, but at least 360k PEOPLE buy them per year.

objective people=empowah [among others here]

Cananopie, here's what I said: The only thing I said about Fusion was a general statement in response to you saying the Lucerne had the best materials available in the price range. It's a general statement because I didn't refer to exactly which pieces are better, but I did say there are materials that are better in there than in the Lucerne, for 5k less. Then I went on to say the most disappointing aspects of the Lucerne's interior. I wasn't comparing the Fusion to it, just saying what I found most unappealing. Sit in an Avalon and compare. The design is more appealing, more special. This is all because of that dull, pieced-together looking center console of the Lucerne. The Avalon's materials disappointed me even, but they were still better than Lucerne. Sit in and compare them and you can see for yourself. Even down to the radio controls, they are more substantial and refined feeling in the Avalon. Ask objective people here who have sat in both and they'll let you know, or just see for yourself. Oh, and the Fusion really does have nicer dash materials. Disappointing, for a nitpicky car critic like me, but I'm sure others would have no problem with it. Then again, I truly believe there will be at least one sale lost to the overall just average interior design and, in some cases, quality.

The interior materials the Fusion does better than the Lucerne is the dash pad. In the Fusion it's a softer material that gives when pushed, and in the Lucerne it's a low gloss [Fusion's is also low-gloss] hard to the touch platic. It doesn't give much, if any at all, and mostly all cars in the class manage this area better. The radio controls are also nothing to write home about, they're nice, but then so are the Fusion's. You're putting thoughts into my posts by comparing the Fusion to the Lucerne. I was not comparing the overall execution, I just mentioned the dash materials on the Lucerne, and I said the Fusion does some materials better than the Lucerne. Personally, I'm more of a driver-oriented interior kind of guy anyways, and the Lucerne's dash seems tall and oversized, but I was not complaining about this, that's just my personal preference. In terms of overall design presence and overall quality of materials, even though every other material may be pretty good, the dash plastic is really important, in those terms, the Lucerne is still a step behind competitors. Avalon has better materials and a more intriguing, luxurious design. But these are nitpicks, and ultimately Lucerne will sell well, and offers a lot compared to the Avalon. Lucerne is a gigantic leap forward, and is being recognized as so. The fixes that need to be made are slight, but I hold Buick to higher standards than Toyota, they have made a great, stylish, even fun to look at car, but stopped short in a couple, frustrating ways.

it's the most annoying, blatant, and subliminal commercial ever. Like a lot of toyo commercials, it gets in your head and communicates perfectly the message.....toyota's have good mileage. Damn that song. Brilliant scientists those Toyota marketers.

You want credit for an opinion?? Here's another, equally 'correct' opinion: exterior is overdone and tacky AND derivative. Design is neither fluid or cohesive. Blind toyota loyalists will overlook that. Of course. credit to toyota, not sci guy.

You want credit for an opinion?? Here's another, equally 'correct' opinion: exterior is overdone and tacky AND derivative. Design is neither fluid or cohesive. Blind toyota loyalists will overlook that. Of course. credit to toyota, not sci guy.

I never imagined Toyota to put out an interior like this one....it's got too much going on and "looks" cheap near the IP, but most likely won't feel that way. I am still impressed with the exterior. Different flavors of different trucks are good, and i'm glad Toyota strayed a little from the pack while keeping the concept familiar.

It is wonderful to hear you say this ah-ha.

Let's all just take it for what it is, in a couple of months it'll be confirmed by DCX. Several of the insiders have already chimed in on this and concurred. I agree that 35k units is a great volume to shoot for, DCX will have demand outstripping supply, and will have yet another success story [by publicly keeping projections low]. I also think this car is kind of dumb too, and the GTO seems to be a better car already. If only GTO looked as cool.

The commercials for Chevy during the Grammys highlighting the value equation were great. I really liked the emphasis on quality and style over price. I also liked the gas mileage commercial. toyota's commerical on mpg is so damn hypnotizing in this part of the country, just one though of it and that damn song comes to mind, "i want my, i want my mpg!"........they're freakin geniuses, those Toyota marketing execs. That's exactly the way to capture people's attention sometimes, by grating thier nerves. But ya, back to topic, the value equation is a good one. I hope we continue to see positive momentum and results. I think the new trucks will help to bring in traffic too. I showed the Tahoe to a very very discriminating friend [i don't use that word in a bad context, discriminating as in hihgly particular], and he really liked it.

I don't really know what you're referring to. Outside the Lounge, most everything is professional and informative, aside from some arugmentation that goes back and forth [guilty as charged]. Even then, you're working out opinions to come to a logical conclusion, and sometimes people think differently from you no matter what. Myspace? I don't even go there, but the Lounge can be that way at times. If you don't like it, the don't participate, but don't hate. Your mom didn't teach you if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Share positive feelings, crocy.....I think the worst problem C&G has is the constant barrade of bad news for GM. This is a GM fansite, and all we can logically do is assert who caused the problem [GM], and once we've reached that point, we're left wondering when we won't be reeling with bad news for our favorite company. I think we have our up and down weeks as far as how much information is being traded around. I do like it when people can exchange ideas without getting heated or accusations. I get accused a lot....

Unfortunately for Buick, that's not a fact. Better materials are available in the Fusion, for about 5k less. It's the hard dash materials, as well as the black plastic surrounding the radio and HVAC controls, and the uninspiring design of the center console of the Lucerne that really disappoint me most. If you want to sell a luxury sedan, your car better say luxury on the inside, and Lucerne just does not. Maybe 5 years ago, but the competition has moved on.I haven't read the article yet, so I can't comment on that. Cananopie, those pictures you posted are good. I frankly don't know what they're trying to say, but without knowing the full context and tone I can't attack it with an open mind. I will say it the Lucerne does have a wedgy shape and a shapeless, bulbous front end like the Camry. I think the problem you guys are having is with the comparison to the pain-jane Camry....there's just no comparison, the Buick is obviously a much more stylish vehicle. i agree with empowah about the proportions being completely wrong in person. In person, this and the blob of a front end leave me cold. Though the details, like the grille design and headlights are cool.

It's a necessity in Europe to have a smaller car than the CTS, that's why they needed it. And apparently it's proved easier to get the diesels in there quicker too. Do the CTS and STS sell with diesels? If not, they need them. No thank you from America. It's nicely differentiated and should sell to thier mind-bogglingly low expectations, even higher than them. Though I wish they could have done something RWD, unique, and first built it as a Cadillac, so there wouldn't be all this talk of based off a Saab. It should be a thoroughly competent choice, but no thank you, do not bring it to America unless it's RWD and thoroughly executed. MEaning, wait to the next generation. And if that happens, I guess CTS pricing would go up, huh? Is CTS getting bigger? Cspec mentioned it once...

isn't that C-pillar design a lot like what Chevy did with the Cheyenne concept? Here's hoping they get some sporty sedan flavor in there and create something large, but curvy.