balthazar

There's no way one can rightfully claim GM was 'not passionate' about an air-cooled, rear-engined full line of small cars AND trucks that introduced (along with the Olds Jetfire) now-ubitquitous turbochargers (and was one of the very early bucket seat cars too) to the market, and kept being marketed another 3 years past 1 book that was published in '65 and only succumbed to a changing market (musclecars). The 3rd generation had a ton of development work going before the project was shelved, so they didn't give up in '65, either. The Corvair may be the most passionate, dedicated small car project in history.

google sez 59", or 5-ft. I kinda forgot about the H3T, but the entire Hummer line always seemed like 'appearance package' trucks rather than actually being used as trucks (other than 4x4ing). I just think Jeep missed an opportunity to get in the pickup game by just stretching a Wrangler and calling it a day. Wranglers have their legion of fans, of course, but they are archaic and uncomfortable vehicles that people either are all in for, or have no interest in. I don't see a Wrangler pickup getting cross shopped with other small pickups at ALL.

I's confoosed. The lower pic is the current street view- it's a parking garage now.

Question : If Li-Ion batt costs have dropped 24% in 8 years, what EV auto has likewise dropped it's MSRP by that much or ANY amount in the same time frame?

Workage.

C'mon; the evidence is NOT on your side on this point.

^ So has IC vehicles, but the ATP overall continues to rise. Don't expect EV cars to drop appreciably in cost. Once they are in solid enough demand that they are finally turning a profit, the OEMs are not going to push to reduce revenue by appreciably lowering price and potentially dip back into the red. It's not the way commerce works.

Brings up an interesting point. Despite the really high levels of scoot in some EVs (and I will offer the same statement some folk do WRT 3/4- and 1-tons trucks; 'Most people won't even use it')- electric power is devoid of so much of the visceral characteristics of IC that perhaps, indeed, it's true calling is that of the 'appliance vehicle'. Seems to make sense; lower the range of Kw, decrease the cost of the vehicle markedly, and suddenly it's that much more obtainable/appealing to the masses. In hindsight, it seems the push to stuff 10,000 cells into a car so it has scary-quick acceleration (which brings up another common statement; 'Most drivers can't handle it anyway') in order to make it 'cool' when it should have been targeted at the mainstream sector to realize economies of scale years quicker.

But to clarify- this isn't a pickup, it's a Wrangler with a bed. Problem as I see it is, Jeep is rumored to be charging nearly $20,000 for that bed. Not sure who this is aimed at other than existing Jeep buyers.

I'm not arguing that plastics don't allow a greater variation in shape at potentially less cost, but to wit; steel, 2 more quarts than original : Cost & weight may well be another matter, but there's not going to be a thinner wall (=more capacity) in the same envelope than steel.

The EXACT same POV can be expressed towards EVs- very high buy-in threshold & hard for 'normal' people to justify. Hence the sales figures.

Trunkage.

Ah; it's a Wrangler with a mini bed. As you guys would likely assume, I was picturing a modern take on the original; a uniquely styled true pick-up. Probably as good a spot as any to remind folk of the Mighty FC :

That's relatively attractive.

^ 10-4 : 10 years then; a full decade of production to just eclipse the Chevy Cruze's production. Gains in this segment (IE: EVs) are glacial. I suspect some quantity of Model 3 buyers are 'saving face' by ante-ing up to the circa $50K price when they signed on for the "$35K" price. Then again the 2 years wait time has allowed buyer's investments to appreciate enough to offset that huge step-up. :D

Company was founded in 2003.

Dave, $10K is not enough. Rivian said something about 1 million sales, didn't they? Tesla has taken 15 years to reach what- 160K/yr with 3 models? Silverado. et al, start in the low 30s. Starting where your competition ends their pricing is an iron-clad guarantee of niche-level sales - show me ANY model moving 250K in the US at a $70K base MSRP - I'll wait.

My bad- read the wrong column. Cruze did 32K for the quarter, it's 110K YTD. Bolt sold 4K for the 3rd quarter, or 13% of the Cruze's volume.

Seemingly getting brushed aside in all the talk of 'GM trucks are Too Damned High priced'; the Rivian is coming in at $eventy thou$and dollar$. This is where journalistic hype tips it's hand- the market out there is NOT going to swallow any considerable volume at those prices; it's not a feasible business case. Jaguar is just a niche player; going all EV will only cement that status thru at least the next decade.

Bolt had it's best month this year in October, moving 2075 units. But it still trails the Volt by 1000 units on the year and 2000 is nothing to write home about. Cruze is doing about 37,000 units/month. Bolt is only "selling well" for an electric car, but it's selling very poorly for a small car. Cruze is rumored/supposedly going away, assumedly/supposedly for profitability reasons. Think on that one a bit.

^ Everybody is STILL waiting for the much ballyhooed flying cars, going on roughly 60 years now. You'll be wheeled from room to room by a nurse's aide before you're still getting plastered and having your autonomous car drive you down city streets/ back roads.

Weird, but if correct helps the SUV by reducing it's bulk. The pickup needs a longer wheelbase so it can get a proper bed- that's a 'short tacoma bed on a tundra' combination.

Did some scaling and it appears -proportionally- the numbers are correct. 136" WB, 198" OL is a diff of 62". 275/65R20s are 34" in diameter, so 136" plus (2) half tires (17" + 17") = 170", leaving 28" of total overhang. Scaling off the screen makes it look really close. Despite being only 198" long, the SUV must be bigger in person that via pics. Here it's over a 133" wheelbase '66 Fleetwood (overall length: 228").

This forlorn structure once was the Walter H Schultz Pontiac dealer in Trenton NJ. It was in 1947, anyway. I couldn't find a 'back in the day' pic, sadly.

Decades ago I sent away to get the factory paperwork for my '64 GP from a company that bought up (actually, I heard they were rescued from a dumpster and an agreement was reached) PMD's records. Just like anyone who's interested in their car's history/numbers, one of the things that tends to occupy the minds of car hobbyists is their car's past life. Specifically, what dealership did it come from? Well, this paperwork included what's called a 'build manifest', which shows the VIN, options codes, other bits, plus the dealership numerical code. Here's one (see "07 679") - this is the 'factory's copy' : This particular manifest is from the Car & Driver '64 GTO test car, the one where Pontiac slipped a 421 underhood in place of the 389 they were built with. Those extra 32 cubes were worth an official 22 more HP, but tuned the way it was it was FAR more. The C&D GTO did the quarter mile in 11.8 sec IIRC. Unfortunately, the manifest doesn't ID the dealer (name/address), so unless you find the individual car's build sheet (it's 'birth certificate', if you will), it is very tough to find out the actual original dealer. This is a build sheet from a '70 GTO, note that besides the VIN, the spelled-out options, it has both the dealer code and the dealer name/address. This is the golden ticket for a Pontiac hobbyist. However, there was no set rule about these singular paper copies as far as what to do with them when the car was assembled. Many/most times, they got stuffed into the car... but not always and not always in the same places. I've found them under the seat springs, way up under the dash. I never did find the one in my '64 GP tho. Now, this company that has all the PMD records, from 1961 up until (who cares; I think) 1980, THEY have all the dealer IDs but never got around to compiling a list. So I started to reach out into the Pontiac community to find out dealer codes and compile them. This, I started around 1990, and I get quite a decent start on a list. Along comes this internet thing, and I find a very busy GTO site (ultimateGTO.com) that also has a list going, so I shelve the project. Low & behold, I recently check back and the GTO site list hasn't been updated since 2009! That's it; 'just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in'. I don't know how many dealers we're talking about- my interest would be about '55-80... and the codes mathmatically allow for 27,000 numbers.... but the count is more like 4-5000, or so I was once told. RIght now my list is just over 1800, tho 450 of those have no codes associated with them.