balthazar

OK; then refrain from every other posting urge you have, because that's about the frequency I find your posts to be annoying (& distastefully self-righteous, BTW). You have been so informed. Now conform to my standards of manners & decency, or I'll have to put you on my ignore list. Seriously, someone in this thread stated some good advice: >>'...show the self-restraint to stay out of the threads you cannot handle.'<< Thank you for your support.

Croc ->>"What are you talking about? You've found out quite a bit about Obama...."<< I knew all that and I didn't learn it here or on wikipedia {insert obligatory at wiki mention as reliable information source}. I'm not referring to his personal family past, but his credentials-for-the-job past. You listed just one single thing that has any real bearing on his intended future job; community organizer, everything else is superfluous fluff. and he has never defined what being a C.O. entailed. Why? >>"ACORN doesn't have a monopoly on community organizing."<< Nor does it have a monopoly on fraudulent voter registration. But if BO feels being identified as an ACORN community organizer is to the point it needs to be debunked as a 'smear', then why did BO mention being 'in the smack dab middle' with ACORN and thank them for their work? No denouncement? Can't you see this is at odds with itself? >>"Obama did Project Vote in 1992, yet your "evidence" citing a contradiction is for a 1993 partnership. Did you misread, or are you trying to obfuscate the facts?"<< Did you think the NVRAIP only took a few months to design, organize, lobby, draw up & vote in, or were you purposely being obtuse? Olds ->>"I'm just curious Balthy.... if McCain were involved with ACORN, would you heap the same scorn on him for it? "<< Of course; the practices & events were dishonest & illegal in some instances. Facts are facts, cheating is cheating, being a grabass opportunist is being a grabass opportunist. Why would I not condemn McCain.... ahhhhh: you are assuming I support him. If so, you likewise seem to be assuming I would excuse any & every potentially damaging incident & damning accusation in order to see my candidate get in, right ? :wink: SoCal CTS ->>"The thing about ACORN is that all of the questionable registrations have been caught in advance."<< Then how come there were multiple indictments for registration fraud ? Why is the FBI currently involved in an investigation if everything was caught "beforehand"? How did 1 man register 72 times? Why are there efforts to pull their federal funding? You & Croc are reading an ACORN spin doctor PR piece; of course they are going to fein outrage and lie thru their teeth to protect their $$. siegen ->>"What is so critical that you need to know about him that you can't find? If you can't find it on the Internet already, then it's probably something ridiculously irrelevant."<< What- it's not possible that hidden information could be ridiculously damaging ? I give you two quotes: "I did not have sex with that woman." "In fact I DID have sex with Miss Lewinsky." Dirt is admitted to when it's revealed and no sooner in the political world. I point you to Edwards locking himself in the hotel bathroom from reporters at 2AM. They all have dirt, some have a few tons of it. They deny & deny as long as possible. Some have alledged that BO is using a few new tactics, such as the race card, to avoid serious scrutiny. He obviosuly has shielded details about his past, because we still know only bits-n-pieces 3 weeks from the election. What would I like to know? Thanks for asking, I hope you can provide the answers : I'd like to know what he studied in the colleges, under who and what grades he recieved. His professional background is so skimpy, we are forced to consider schooling experience in the measure of the man. I'd like to know details about his 'community organizer' years- with whom, under what organizations, what programs he worked on and what he accomplished. I'd like to see a list of his clients and their case overviews that he handled as a lawyer. I'd like to know even a little bit about his political allies and the Woods Fund's activities. The man is a ghost. -- -- -- -- -- Let me ask you guys this: in all honesty, is there ANYTHING about Barack Obama and his bid for president that you are able to question? Is there even ONE THING you wish was somehow different, or wish was clarified for your sake, nevermind 'the opposition's' ? An icy finger of doubt anywhere ?

>>"The demonizing of Obama as being some radical Arab that has been going on shows how paranoid our country has become since 9/11. His name doesn't end in Smith or Johnson, so he must be a radical Muslim. His skin is black, so he must have some hidden anti-American agenda."<< Everything I heard from those against Obama's fundamentals never seriously mentions him being a muslim OR black, but there are rampant concerns about his radical ideals. He has, of course, increasingly moved toward the right during the course of the campaign, but that's not a reliable picture, it's playing to the voters. The fear is --with his heavily shrouded past-- that even the earilest view of the man is majorly 'toned down' from reality.

>>"anything from 1983 and older is accepted (next year will include 1984 vehicles). "<< I understand why this is done, but I can never get behind it. No matter how much time passses, this era can never hold a candle any earlier decade. They will never be interesting to me. Nice shots. You must've really been drooling over that '57 Suburban pick-up, right ?? The LeSabre was there... {slams hand sledge into temple}. I'll forgive myself eventually for not going.... To top my misery off, I deduced the 'gear noise' I have been hearing is a worn set of tires. {another well-aimed hand sledge swing begins it's violent arc...}

ACORN describes itself as a “non-partisan” group devoted to helping the poor and to registering millions to vote. The organization has at least 350,000 dues-paying member families, and more than 850 chapters spread among at least 104 U.S. cities. Selectively adding millions of Democratic names to the voter rolls remains one of ACORN’s most lucrative activities, for which this organization has been given millions of dollars by organized labor, non-profit foundations, and Democratic-controlled government agencies. “Instead of trying to overturn ‘the system — to blow it up, as Wiley (one of ACORN's original New Leftist founders) wanted to do, ACORN burrows deep within the system,” wrote Manhattan Institute scholar Sol Stern, adding, “taking over its power and using its institutions for its own purposes, like a political ‘Invasion of the Body Snatchers.’” -- -- -- -- -- Critics & law enforcement (FBI included) accuse ACORN of involvement vote fraud, voter intimidation, shakedowns against businesses, and the promotion of socialist class hatred and class warfare. ACORN has a public record of highly-publicized voter fraud allegations lodged against it :: OH ('04), WI ('04), FL ('04), NM ('04), CO ('05), MO ('06), WA (2007), IN ('08), MI ('08), NV ('08), MO ('08), plus numerous other instances, numerous cases resulting in indictments and convictions. Recent news stories have reported 1 man was bribed with cigarettes & cash, to the tune of regsitering 72 times. A dog and the lineup of the Dallas Cowboys are just some of the 4 million voters that ACORN’s Project Vote claims to have helped register nationwide. And although Acorn is supposedly a "non-partisan" entity, they have participated in every Democratic Convention since '80 with members elected as delegates, and ACORN Votes -ACORN's national Political Action Committee- , endorsed Obama during the '08 Democratic Presidential Primary. Let's see why: Obama was the Illinois director of ACORN’s controversial voter registration operation, and he trained the group’s leaders in the ways of radical, confrontational politics. He also paid ACORN affiliates during his recent Democratic primary contest. Leading up to the '08 OH Democratic Primary, Obama’s campaign paid Citizens Services, Inc. (a subsidiary of ACORN) $832,598 between Feb. 25 & March 17. Obama was its lawyer in several pivotal ACORN cases & funded a number of its activities, as well. When he sat on the board of the prestigious Woods Fund for Chicago alongside former Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers, he oversaw and approved many grants for ACORN. The Fund’s "non-ideological" public image "enabled the Trustees to make grants to organizations that use confrontational tactics against the business and government ‘establishments’ without undue risk of being accused of partisanship." --Woods Fund Committee Report -- -- -- -- -- Obama’s mysterious, shrouded past as a “community organizer” is closely tied to ACORN, but apparently worried by the connection, his campaign has put claims of his ties to ACORN as a leading 'denial' item on its “Fight The Smears” Web site — a site the Obama campaign created to counter what they claim are partisan lies made up against their candidate. Unfortunately for the candidate's credibility, his campaign's own websites are bathed in self-hypocrisy ~ >>"• Fact: Barack was never an ACORN community organizer."<< --fightthesmears.com >>"When Obama met with ACORN leaders in November, he reminded them of his history with ACORN & his beginnings in IL as a Project Vote organizer, a nonprofit focused on voter rights & education. Obama said, ‘I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That's what I did for three and half years before I went to law school. That's the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. So this is something that I know personally, the work you do, the importance of it. I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” --Obama's website >>"• Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee."<< --fightthesmears.com >>"Obama Trained Registrars And Ran Media Saturation Campaign. Chicago Magazine reported, “Within a few months, Obama, a tall, affable workaholic, had recruited staff and volunteers from black churches, community groups, and politicians. He helped train 700 deputy registrars, out of a total of 11,000 citywide. And he began a saturation media campaign with the help of black-owned Brainstorm Communications.” --Chicago Magazine, 1/93"<< --fightthesmears.com >>"• Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992."<< --fightthesmears.com >>"Project Vote often coordinates voter registration campaigns with local chapters of ACORN..."<< -- wikipedia >>"The National Voter Registration Act (of 1993) Implementation Project—a partnership between Project Vote, ACORN and Demos—aims to improve voter registration services at public assistance agencies."<< -- projectvote.org >>"Project Vote! is nonpartisan, strictly nonpartisan." -- Chicago Magazine, 1/93"<< --fightthesmears.com >>"“Voting experts at the DNC point to surging registration in several big cities, such as Detroit, Chicago and Philadelphia. Most of that work has been done by the nonpartisan Project Vote. Its director, Sandy Newman, says his group has helped to register 150,000 new voters, almost all of them black, in Pennsylvania; 110,000 in Chicago; 70,000 in Michigan; 40,000 in Ohio; and 160,000 (with the help of the New York Public Interest Research Group) in New York City. ...most of these voters will cast their ballots for Mr. Clinton.” --Wall Street Journal, 10/92"<< --fightthesmears.com Fact is, even tho they possibly may not have been legally linked, ACORN & Project Vote not only worked side by side & repeatedly, they were of the same ideology and involved a lot of the same people, and Obama unquestionably was involved in the practices & results both operation's utilized. -- -- -- -- -- Because Obama had worked closely with Madeline Talbott in 1995 (one of ACORN's leaders), she specifically sought out this radical young lawyer to help craft its lawsuit to impose President Clinton’s '93 National Voter Registration Act, nicknamed “Motor Voter,” according to Chicago ACORN leader Toni Foulkes. Obama’s ACORN lawsuit won, thereby slapping aside state officials who resisted Motor Voter because of what it soon proved to be: a 12-lane superhighway to massive voter fraud. The Motor Voter law required bureaucrats at welfare offices, the Department of Motor Vehicles & other government offices to register as voters those who used their services. “Examiners were under orders not to ask anyone for identification or proof of citizenship. States also had to permit mail-in voter registrations, which allowed anyone to register without any personal contact with a registrar or election official.” --Wall Street Journal reporter John Fund in his book “Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy.” As a completely unrelated sidebar, "at least 6 of the 19 Sept 11th terrorists were registered voters." -- Newsmax.com -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- This is a hugely-complicated issue (there's a lot more to it that the above), but hard data has, as usual, been consistantly sparse and/or lacking, but -oh boy!- the stink is there. I have been asking for details of BO's background throughout '08, as have untold others. Even here I have asked this predominantly Democratic-supporting body of members for details, yet no one bothered to answer even 1 inquiry. I know why- you don't know either. What I don't know is- why don't you care? All the rotten & criminal associations and back-room deals- it's ONLY and ALWAYS about money & power - Obama is no GDamned different in the LEAST. More of the same, just more subversive this time around. NO change, NO hope.

>>"We are screwed for a while no matter what."<< Agreed 100%, but there are different degrees of getting screwed, no?

Bonne is a '65, yes.

Croc, there's a mile between being "direct" and exercising a degree of tact. Allow me to 'boil it down' : >>"...what a hypocrite you've been... a little bit of personal maturity... without getting whiny... self-restraint... cannot handle... petty sniping... holding grudges is so negative and frankly obnoxious."<< Topping your post off with 'I really appreciate your creating this thread' does not mop up the...(ahem) bile listed above. I know 'that's how you see it', but I refer you again to note how it was received. >>"f@#k it. I'm done with this &#036;h&#33;. "<< ummm... .. ... is this an example of "a little bit of personal maturity" ???

I have a... sort of... Pontiac shrine on my bureau: the glass-faced dash emblem from a '46-47 with an Art Deco Indian Head inside it (about 5" in dia), a stainless 3-D Indian Head off the flanks of a '52-54, a 1903 Indian Head penny and a '23 Indian Head nickel.

>>"don't sell a car that goes 0-60 in 3.4 sec if the only way you can achieve this speed is to destroy the $20K transmission."<< fixed.

>>"2 B-pillars..."<< Show me a vehicle with only 1 B-Pillar. Oh- you meant 4. No; the second set would be the C-Pillars.

Well... let's all hope for a lo-oong 'The One' presidency (perhaps Bloomberg can help draft the end of term limits for BO), whence immediately, the milk & honey will begin flowing thru the streets, jobs will plentiful and enriching, where everyone's retirement accounts will swell alarmingly, where plentiful, renewable energy sources will all be online on every other corner in 3 or 4 weeks (and oil will be forgotten & worthless >shutuplassticsindustry!<), when the entire world's hunger & poverty will be ended via the American taxpayer's bottomless patriotism, and all the rogue madmen dictators of the world will text their permanent disarmaments & peace treaties to BO's cell on Jan 21st. {sighs dreamily} "Now is the time, this is the moment, we are the ones we've been waiting for." --BO Let the fainting begin anew Jan 20th as the "citizen of the world" saves us all.

I thought the Oil Cos were all behind their "buddy" Bush, yet it's the Dems who oppose drilling.

I agree that there are some screaming deals available, but the volitility is scary; makes for predicting a progressive linear return very difficult. What's going to emerge on the other side is very likely going to be very different as far as the big movers go. I made a good chunk off of Apple, but I feel discretionaries like Apple may lag behind a general upturn for a good span of time. I sold off what was in the black, but the ones I'm sitting on are deep in the red. I was planning on re-assessing this weekend, liquidating at a loss to free up the cash, taking the write off, and getting set to plunge back in soon. This is 'ground floor' beyond what anyone could hope for. One I was invested in was MASI (blood screening tech), which had an amazing ability to move counter to most DJA downturns.

>"How the hell is it politically charged?"<< As an investigative inquiry, their official business is only to determine the facts in the matter at hand. Coming out with a 'now you know who NOT to vote for' line is ridiculously biased; the presidential campaign has ZERO to do with Palin as governor firing a cabinet member. >>"She did not fire the jackass ex-brother-in-law, she fired the guy that she was pressuring to fire the ex-brother in law - an obvious abuse of power. "<< She fired the guy responsible for firing the a-hole trooper, because he refused to do so because 'he didn't see anything'. This is like a cop refusing to arrest a criminal because he didn't see him actually commit the crime. He failed to do his job. >>"...if she fired this man and her sister was NOT dating the trooper, would anyone be complaining?"<< Exactly right. No one could legitimately.

>>"I assume you'll be publishing a prompt retraction?"<< Perhaps you'll just edit my post for me. Again. Perhaps I can have an epiphany and 'see the light'; ALL my posts turning to fawning awe and borderline worship of the man Farakahn called "the Messiah", accepting every single stuttered word as nothing but truth, justice and the New Audacity Hope/Dream, where everyone can hold hands, floating an inch or 2 above the ground, singing & singing, wearing t-shirts with a large red & blue Fruit Loop on them.... Gosh, I feel like I'm going to f-faint....

>>"...it states that her efforts to get Wooten fired broke a state ethics law that bars public officials from pursuing personal interest through official action."<< What about pursuing public interests ?? How does leaving a murder-threatening, drunk-driving, child-tasering, no-permit hunting, 4-time divorcee thug on the street with a badge/gun serve the public? F*ck. If a superior (who was a police union co-member) fails to perform his duty as a public safety commissioner by firing this ass, then >>"Palin had the authority as governor to fire him"<< and so she justly did. 'Abuse of power' totally ignores the Wooten situation of the story. >>""I believe that these findings may help people come to a conclusion on how they should vote" in the presidential election, Elton said."<< Aaaaaaaaaand there we have it : unbiased, non-partisan, non-agenda motivated "investigation". Thanks for leaving it right out on the table.

>>"There could be antitrust questions raised..."<< With only 37% of the market ?? Business that slow at the DoJ ??

Reasonable & logical.

Why not? And aren't Buch & Cheney already in? How do they benefit directly? How does McCain?

Oh come on- those are nearly all superfluous reasons, but I don't really expect such things as idealogy, judgement or experience to be weighed seriously in these "modern" ADD times. As far as his education goes, anyone have any idea what any of his grades were; none of his transcripts have been released by him. I'll give you that BO's a very polished, almost snake-oil-esque speech receiter, but his stumbling & stammering off teleprompter do not convey any sense of convinction or clear-headed-ness. Can you just see a mid-east madman dictator, tilting his head quizzically, trying to follow his interpreter following BO ?? Also, all of his speeches, while well read, lack real substance. Agreed, but BO's only experience off your list is speech & law & Biden is having his own 'moments' (he's only 6 yrs behind McCain, don't forget), calling Bosnians "Bosniacs' and assuring one interviewer that Roosevelt got on TV to talk to the people about the Depression.

So who are McCain's "oil buddies", would they just get handed off from Bush come Jan?? $2.88 today for 87, drops every day.

GMTG got it- it's not the people; I'm a country boy myself (growing up, I lived in a township where the 2 nearest towns had about 2300 people)- it's just the distance between garages out there and not knowing the area beyond the wagon trail I take. Rural PA is beautiful- Jersey taxes may push me over the river at some point... Thought about renting.. but I also wasn't feeling up to the drive by myself this year...

You guys are misfocusing. No one is advocating drilling INSTEAD of alternative energy- there is support for alternatives but legislative opposition (primarily from the Dems) against drilling. The claim that new drilling won't get into the system until 2012 according to the oil companies (why the hell should it take 5 years draw up paperwork, more typical Dem work ethics at play...) ignores the fact that a 'replacement' alternative energy source will take much longer- there's almost zero infrastructure in place for any of them. Waiting for a world war to hit to start drilling is madness- the same sources still point to years before it's in the barrel. Drilling now WOULD help- that's exactly the sort of intangible the commodity markets roll on, regardless of the actual amount we're talking about (BTW, more than 1 organization has agreed it's a considerable quantity. I note that the article reduced the oil amount to a per day figure in a crystal clear attempt to minimize the quantity. May have fooled some people reading it, I suppose...). Why anyone in their right mind would OPPOSE any additional source of energy & energy independence in these times is beyond comprehension. Oh wait- is it because the Big Bad EEEVVVIILLL Oil Cos would have more oil to sell?? Want to 'make a difference' on a personal level here? Sell your damn car & bike for your groceries- that'll show XOM.

Love the analysis here, so logical; 'there's few people so they must all be corrupt'. I can't even conceive of a thought process that would take one to that conclusion. By the same token, a bustling heartland city like -say- Chicago must be immune from thugs, mobsters & politicians on the take.