balthazar

Oh, come on; buck up. You better than most know what it takes- this is no parts car. Example~ Before: During: After: 2 years (I know; makes ya sick, don't it?) elapsed time.

It doesn't bother me, I actually think it sits pretty nicely. Not every single car can or even should remain factory stock. I don't believe a stock '79 El will ever hit $25K in collector circles of the future. There were 54,007 other '79 Caminos originally built (not to mention physically identical other years) - plenty available IMO for someone to do whatever they please with their truck. I anticipate hearing many earfuls about my B-59 once it's done & offered up to the public eye. Can't please everyone...

The way I see it is, there's 2 POVs on the matter - the 'textbook' side that likes to fall back on theory & idealogy, and the 'reality' side that is able to visualize consequences. I support the theory of free markets, but the reality of the present is: we don't have global free markets, because of the inherant wealth in the U.S., our open market wealth has been getting strip-mined, and vital key industries have already fallen into the roadside ditch while those in policy spout theory with their noses in the air. How much longer are we going to watch reality put the smackdown on theory ???

You ARE old, old man. :wink: I don't remember them per say, but I have entensive files accumulated over the years...

Some portion of whatever monies may be recieved HAS to go to a series of 'straight talk' advertisments - too many erroneously believe GM is an evil fat-cat conglomerate and the money would just go to executive pocket-lining. There would need to be at least an element of nationalism and an accounting of both the Corp's contributions to the tapestry of America, and a foreshadowing of what would likely come were no assistance granted. Nicer interior plastics will have to wait; the #1 critical issue here is on-the-fence public opinion. Just in passing (so I missed the context, but...) the Clueless News Network had a blurb that used these terms: "GM", "bailout" and "clunkers". Even if that was a 'quote' of detractors, repeating it will still plant the seed in some feeble minds. Frankly, I feel this nation is far too self-absorbed for even the most effective ads to make much of an impression.

There was a commonplace late '70s print ad for a CB radio, and the image used one of the Mirage Pick-Coupe deVilles, a beautiful pale yellow coupe shot from the rear. Eventually over 200 units were built. The Mirage was an elegant conversion on a stock-chassis'd CdV, yet the quarter windows 'looked' into the bed and the roof 'canopied' partially over it. I've yet to see one of these in person, but I have a number of pics and a build article on the process. There were multiple companies building these in strictly limited numbers, ASC was one, Traditional Coach Works was another; the latter built a classy all-red, painted roof, no quarter window pick-up deVille for Evil Knievel. Traditional was also behind the 'Mirage' series. These also had a waterproof, carpeted under-bed cargo compartment.... sound somewhat familiar? With both of these versions, one would be unlikely to notice the CdVs were other than stock at a quick glance, esp the Mirage. Unlike the Lincoln linked to above, which has numerous bed proportion issues.

>>"I remember riding in an early 70s Audi way back when and thinking "what a piece of crap!""<< I remember riding in a late '90s Audi way back circa '03 and thinking "what a piece of crap!" I sure hope their stuff since then is world's better, or you all are on crack. Here's a '97: Really; the same thing in '07: Sorry- I'm not seeing it...

Since my daily is a large truck, I'd not be against a zippier small car, say a '62-64 Lark 2-dr; leave the exterior as found and swap in an injected V-6 / OD trans. Something like this (tho it's paint is far too nice for me, the stance is spot-on) : (other pics) The greenhouse is pretty tall, but the body is a nicely-taut lil package...

And the Feebling of future generations accelerates...

Sorry- that 67% of BMW going to fleet sales is a GERMANY number, not global, tho Europe in general also seems to run very high in BMW fleet sales as opposed to the U.S.. Curious how the same product can 'play out' in different markets....

>>"The Malibu's sales target should be 450,000 a year with 5% fleet, CTS should be 125,000 a year, 0% fleet, Cruze, 400,000 a year, 5% fleet. That is how to make profit, not by making 4 or 5 rebadges of an average car. "<< BMW is 67% fleet sales worldwide -- that's their "business" plan. Should Cadillac follow suit ?? Global 3-series production total in 2007 was 555,219. Even even at 67% (frankly, I would believe it fleeted at an even higher percentage to balance out the rest of the line), the 3-series only saw 166K retail sales worldwide in '07. Notice how BMW NEVER releases fleet data in their sales reports.....

>>"Chrysler, like GM, often try to underprice their cars to keep them "value leaders" and frankly I have no problem with dealerships doing the market adjustments if the parent company is too stupid to price their product right. "<< How long do these 'market adjustments' last- 6 months if the dealer was halfway sensible ? Should ChryCo price the Challenger $2500 more now so it's $2500 too high in 6 months, or adjust the stickers every quarter or every month ?

>>"If the Detroit 3 weren't paying $75 an hour to employees"<< Average employee wage at GM is $28/hr. >>" They cut annual R&D spending to about $5 billion or perhaps less. Toyota spends $8 billion a year, over 3 years that is a $9 billion dollar gap."<< Shockingly remeniscent of your equating of vehicle quality with vehicle price, it's interesting to note that for all that toyota supposedly invests in R&D, that their products are only mid-pack in anything you care to grade them on. It begs the question; where does all that R&D money actually show up in the vehicle itself ??

I could see the potential for oil to surpass $100/barrel again soon if demand was the same as 12 months ago, but with the speculators hiding and demand way down on top of that, I think we're more likely to see time on the low side of $2 rather than the high side of $3. 90% of the $90 spike in oil ($60-$150) was pure speculation. Saw an XF last month- the cost cutting at the rear of the car (I was following it a few miles) cheapened the image immensely. Elements of jaguars of yore hard to shake, apparently.

Buick 455, aluminum Stage II heads, Holley 1000 cfm carb, 2" headers, THM400 or 4L80E, Dana 60 w/ 3.73. Car is already set up for the engine/trans, cores for both those are already obtained, plus many of the major engine parts such as the heads (see mock-up pic on page 1). Axle is all in & ready to go.

Yea, umm, GM4life - did you miss that this is a 1-of-8 Pontiac-built Super Duty 421 race cars, 1200+ lbs lighter than a GTO with roughly 470 HP? These are low 11-sec cars in factory trim (read: no traction). Liking the style of the '71-72 GTO is all well and good, but to mention a mass-production muscle car such as that in connection with valuation and this car is seriously off the mark.

I'm with you there, 68, but note that the only pieces left were the front A-Arms; the rest of the car was irreversibly rotted. I couldn't 'pull the lever' on it, but it did surrender a double armload of parts to me prior. The guy who's yard it is is about 75, and altho he's there 5 days a week still, he took advantage of high scrap prices and got rid of about 93% of his yard. Many cars were far worse shape than the above B-59. - - - - - My friend who started the auto body shop in the above pic and owned the small junkyard out back, passed away 11.18.2009 at age 76. I first met him around 1990- my friend's father took me over there because I had just gotten my '59 and he knew this guy was working on one in the shop. That one visit stuck in my mind, and it wasn't until sometime around 2004 that I stopped back in, re-introduced myself, and struck up a chatting acquaintance. He was retired by that time, but hung out in the back 5-6 days a week, putzing with his own cars and periodically building customs. He had a fascinating collection of stuff, was heavily into Lincolns. I know he had a gorgeous '33 aluminum-bodied Lincoln V-12, I think it 1 of like a dozen cars. Also had a DeSoto Airflow... I want to say it was a coupe, which is quite rare. He also had this car, he said only 3 were built and his was the only one left. I toyed with buying it but passed on the $14K asking price :

Driven by Ab Jenkins- not "built by". Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg were diffferent companies in the same corporation. Duesenberg SJ Special, otherwise sometimes known as the 'Mormon Meteor', sold for $4.45M at auction recently. I'm more accustomed to seeing this car with it's later-addition front bumper: NIce time capsule here: http://www.rickcarey.com/Catalog%20Descrip...on%20Meteor.htm

With only 3K miles on it, that's merely surface rust - not an issue. Very good steel used back then; not impervious to continual exposure of course, but strong & thick enough to last a good long while. With 3K and being inside since the '60s- it looks like a lot of rust, but I'd guarantee it's rock solid. My B-59 had 103K on it, just as much surface rust, and the frame there had zero structural issues; I did NOT have to patch or weld on it. Buick built a pretty massive frame, tho...

Whoopsie- got the '70 and the '09 mixed up above. Sorry. 197" is correct for the '09 - so the difference 'twixt it & the GTO is 7", not merely 1".

For a 40-some-yr old car- that's not in 'sad shape' at all. Completely unmolested except for the replaced axle. Body is very solid. Original transaxle & aluminum front clip have been 'connected' with the new buyer, and a top-shelf resto is in the works. Poking around on the net, the only other completely restored coupe sold for circa $700K, not $500K.

I was watching this one. Amazing eBay story, one for the books. Car is one of 8 coupes factory-built, long missing. 1 restored wagon sold for $462K earlier this year and a coupe sold for $500K - short of a Pontiac concept car, this is the top shelf for collectors, the Super Duty 421 Tempest / LeMans cars, eclipsing even the 14 Swiss Cheese Catalinas. There's 2 coupes left to find; 1 unknown, 1 bought by mercedes in '63 to learn how to build a performance engine. 6 years later, mercedes introduced the famous 6.9 V-8, otherwise known as the Mercedes... 421.

>>"The GTO is pretty much as big as I would want right now, and I certainly wouldn't want something as big as the Challenger."<< Challenger : 191" long, GTO : 190" long. 10"es may 'make or break' it for you, but does 1" ??

>>"Speaking for myself, those traits had no effect on my opinion of it looking huge. It's a large car by itself, no doubt, and far larger than the Mustang. If you consider history, this is no surprise considering past differences in classification. However, the Mustang, as well as the new Camaro, are basically it's only competition and such a vast difference is size is surprising in my eyes."<< There were no 'past differences' in classification (both were 'pony cars') and almost no difference in size : 1970 Challenger : wheelbase : 110, overall length: 191" 1970 Mustang : wheelbase : 108, overall length: 187" OK- there's a 4" difference there, but that's nothing, IMO. Today the difference is noticable, agreed: 9" in wheelbase, 10" in overall length more for the Challenger. Meh- doesn't bother me either way- I struggle to imagine that 10" would ever be a 'break' point for a potential buyer, but I read that same claim here numerous times (usually by the unhinged, but stiill). And yes - 174" is distressingly tiny.

I was riding along with one this morning- what a fricking breath of fresh air, desing-wise. I actually uttered 'Damn!' when I crept up on it in traffic. It was an orange R/T and it looked fantastic. BTW- did not look 'huge' to my eye at all, but I have no doubt the Challenger's lack of a 'diving' and pinched nose and a recognizable amount of decklid foster this impression. Great F'ing job, ChryCo.