balthazar

sip sip

Maybe you'd just have different friends...

There's a B-P-GMC store up the highway from me, it's been there at least since '90- seems healthy (tho I note that in the last 6 months or so, the long 'front line' of vehicles, which was ALWAYS half trucks, is now 100% cars). There was a larger Chevy dealer about 5 miles from me and it closed down this year, but the franchise very well may have sold, because a new Chevy dealer just opened up across the street from the B-P-GMC dealer (same owner- also owns separate FoMoCo & Cadillac dealers).

>>"For an Avis car, though, the Impala is adequate..."<< Perfect; this can be the other side of your new t-shirt, molty!

I love 'pickup cars', too; not so much El Caminos (too common for me- tho I'd consider a '64-66), but the real oddballs, plus -yummy- flower cars. On my other machine I believe I have a pic of a circa '49 Buick converted into a tow truck... and I saw another one of the same vintage at a junkyard in PA this spring. I also looked at a '62 Pontiac/Armbruster flower car for sale a number of years ago, but didn't pull the trigger.

Ooo, 8-lugs and a 428 !!

Why, you little...... !!!!! With vintage stuff, you really only have to watch out for me 'round here. I have heard for years about the American V-16s- Cadillac, Marmon and a few Millers (IIRC)... but I've never heard a whisper of Duesey building any... unless a one-off race motor falls outside everyone's idea of an official V-16 because it's not production (but no Millers were put in a factory car, either). I would readily believe the LSR car was 2 I-8s... but that's a lil crazy for 1920 or even 1928... and that car looks mighty small to fit 2 crankshafts in there... I am curious...

Why don't you just get a t-shirt made, molty?

>>"1919-1921 16 cylinder Land speed record car. "<< I learned something new with this- thank you, sir! {reads......} landracing.com states the Milton car did 156 in 1920, but only did a 1-way run due to catching on fire, which means it was a U.S. record as opposed to international. Entry also states the car had (2) I-8s as opposed to a V-16. But then there's this : April 25, 1928 . Stutz Black Hawk . Frank Lockhart . Daytona . V-16 Duesenberg . IC Frank Lockhart made an attempt on the record at Daytona, lost control and ended up in the sea, he was rescued, Keech then broke the record, then Frank tried again blew a tire and lost his life. The V-16 Duesenberg is on my short list for research....

>>"There are only 2 cars in my book that i rather have over this and they both have 16 cylinders ones a caddy and the other a Duesenberg."<< Tell us a bit more about your dual-engined Duesenberg dream car... :wink:

>>"It had better not disappoint like everything else after ... And Justice For All. Yes, that does include The Black Album."<< Agreed 100%

The snippets in the 'preview' DO sound pretty good- right after James made the 'chunk' reference, interesting to hear a very Megadeth riff there. Me likey. Hope the lyrics are stepped up, too.

I remember when that '67 showed up in your pics YJ, it was all I saw beyond the red blurry thing :wink: Based on those 2 pics, if it's anywhere near $5K, it's at least 3K too much (barring something interesting like a 428/4-spd powertrain). I would have some temporary outside storage room for a '67 Pontiac here in Middlesex Co... and there's possibly some at my brother's place in Hunterdon Co, too (he's got 6 acres).

>>"You know ME, I think that hardtops are WAY cooler (and more practical) than convertibles. There's not a hardtop out there (pillarless) that I would not take over its ragtop counterpart."<< I know; I'm the same way (unless maybe if we're talking about a 4-dr hardtop vs. a convert with a boot (ala: an Eldorado Biarritz))

cire- you're not confused IMO; you got it right as far as the examples of each you posted. Some here, who really should know better, are calling the Malibu/G6/Aura 'badge-engineered', and that's unquestionably incorrect. I also agree with your proposal that the Sky shoud've gone to Cadillac in a sub-XLR slot. Sibling trucks are difficult to make truely differentiated- they are bound in many areas by their functionality (read: cargo). Cars are another arena, tho. I would not chose the word "incredible" to describe the level of difference 'twixt the camry & the es, tho- one immediately calls to mind the other visually, IMO. But another pair of siblings, -say- the Olds Intrique & GP- they shared only door handles on the exterior- nothing visible from the curb to tell they shared a platform at all- they could be from different corporations.

>>"Look at the '64-'72 A-bodys."<< Those were NOT the definition of "badge-engineered" at all, which would be a minority of trim & interior changes with everything else being interchangable.

I hate the GP ragtop- way more attention than deserved at the expense of other, far more competant GPs with a lot more style. 'Ooo, the fricking roof folds down' {spits}

Nice eye; funky and way cool. '67 Catalina 2-dr hardtop : 77,932 - plenty built. There was also an Executive 2-dr hardtop : 6,931 units, and the Bonne : 31,016. Back later w/ pics...

>>"That picture is of the car the Australian restored, not the Leno car."<< Ahh, oopsie, then: WTH?

Undoubtedly it was intentional; perhaps either to 'point forward' in reference to the performance capabilities, or acknowledging the 'turn-about' of making the car RWD. Leno and his guys are not stupid, but it does catch your eye...

Pics do not accurately convey the drama/size of the fender flares - they have to be seen in person. A thousand pics of the last car during resto here: http://bdhvc.com/1966OldsToronado.html

>>"Design has become lazy overall and far too subservient to aerodynamics, production ease, and crash regulation."<< Unfortunately... these very criteria have already spelled the end to unique design- it's all left up to the headlights, wheel & taillights now. Roofs all the same, windshields flush & laid far back, giant rubbermaid Mitten-Grip ™ door handles..., the fat lady is tuning up.

WRT physically attached spoilers/ stand-up spoilers (as opposed to integrated in-the-sheetmetal spoilers), a whole bunch came out in '69 : Judge, Trans Am, Hurst/Olds, Daytona (!), Eliminator, Mach 1, etc. I can't think of an American stand-up spoiler prior to '69. Anyone ever see the roof spoiler on the '71 Javelins ? I was thinking of the celica WRT the current giant headlight trend... >>"Did low lift over height for trunks make this popular?"<< Yeah; the new emphasis on getting a lower lift-over height on everything neccessitated an angled slice and allowing a relatively small slice of body in which to put a lense. Couple this with smaller & smaller cars/trunks, there's just not a whole lot of room to get creative back there anymore. Seems also that the 'aero' profiles (low hood, high trunk) also may have contributed to this somewhat, rear bumpers seemingly got a lot higher/taller to try and mask the disproportionate new heights of the rear, so decklids were brought lower to compensate. This sometimes gives you treatments like -say- the current civic, with chunky bumper corners, but a decklid that cuts noticably into the bumper plane (and here with the 'minivan cut'- never been quite sure what the purpose was with that). This is also, I believe, the unfortunate genesis of using panel seams as styling elements, calling visual attention to all the body's 'cracks'.

You should see the locomotive it hit!

>>"Just admit it: Previous indifference to product has hurt GM---and the current product reawakening may not be soon enough or profitable enough to save their asses. Period. This is why Pontiac, a division that sells 350k+ units/yr., is being discussed for euthanasia in this thread--GM simply can't afford to revamp or replace a limited line-up fast enough. 'Biz-It's going to be tough to work at a Chevy dealership when GM hits Chapter 11...so maybe you should know and understand the reality of the siutation, not the 'truth' you'd like to hear. Toyota isn't evil--the evil is the lazy, disrespectful and negligent way GM has treated customers, employees and their own shareholders -- for me, the betrayal of a loved one is much more upsetting...the world is a big place, brother--nothing impacts only North America anymore---and the jobs are coming from Toyota, Honda, et al...not GM anymore--they're paying people to leave!"<< You know- my eyes have truely been opened here and I'm ready to admit it- GM is already a lost cause- CARBIZ; you might as well walk out at lunch tomm and not bother going back to the dealer... in fact, EVERY GM employee should just walk out- all the action is over at the toyomall - lots of jobs & tons of Nu'merican future over there (even the coffee's better!). Feel free to take whatever's not nailed down, too, it's all future auction-fodder. GM is like a burning airplane, it's still in the air but it's only going in one direction and there are no parachutes, no ocean landing, no hope, no peanuts. All GM cars are &#036;h&#33;ty rentals and the 12 cars a year GM still manages to sell retail require $10K in rebates and are only worth $500 6 months later (while in the shop all the while). Some may call this me being incessantly negative, a wet blanket, a real downer, a doom-sayer, a clammy-palmed, hand-wringing, sniveling whiner. Go ahead and twist it whatever way you wish, you blinders-wearing ostriches- you cannot prove me wrong and I realize now that toyota is the Future & is here to save the U.S. and the World (and who knows; maybe even the galaxy!) with fantastic, amazing, orgasmic-to-drive funmobiles that sparkle in the moonlight and appreciate 4 minutes off the lot and answer all the unanswered & unrealized questions of motorists everywhere... no one needs to hold onto useless emotions or preferences or particular needs- GM will be gone in 24 months courtesy of RW and the Big 1.4275396241001 will not even miss GM- the toyomill is ready and waiting to open new plants & suppliers & dealerships & Krispy Kremes & Starbucks in the old buildings... or just bulldoze them flat (with ergonomically-superior toyo 'dozers!) and plant fields of hybrid daisies in organic soil. GM is EVIL, a downright mean, nasty EVIL company that denies everyone warm slippers and every single EVIL mistake (there've been about 34 billion) has mushroom-clouded into a Disaster Comet... and now there are 800 million Disaster Comets headed straight for my house, which is why I'm in the basement behind the furnace (a japanese furnace) with a recycled tin foil hat and warm slippers. Besides, all GM cars smell like raccoon poo, I know; I've been in plenty of GM cars and everyone hates them- no one who buys one even remotely likes it, clearly they're under some sort of EVIL spell that compels them to self-torture, from the Cobalt to the Corvette- they're all EVIL, I tell you, EVIL !!! Run, RUN NOW, as fast and as far as you can from everything to do with GM- they're going down Major Big Time, Pretty Darned Quick! Even the old ones are dangerous & EVIL... smash them and punch your local !@#! dealers (before they walk out Monday)!! The only good thing here is, the constant crushing relentless negativity may perhaps convince GM insiders reading this to pull the White Flag Lever quicker, vindicating the Portrait of Doom that much faster. Besides, my tin foil hat is getting pretty sweaty.