balthazar

I was riding in my buddy's brand new Silverado today (1500 CrewCab, 4x4, 5.3L 'DOD')- beautiful, quiet, smooth, classy truck. He tells me he was towing a Yukon on a trailer, OD off and in Tow/Haul, and on the highway it was still dropping down to V6. Tons of balls, and is getting 24-26 on the highway (not towing)- reports the tonneau cover makes a huge difference on the highway. Made my '04 2500HD look positively ancient.

Eh- there's nothing wrong with an Allante; it's certainly not 'uber-tacky' and it did bring more street cred to Cadillac. Also, no where is there a ' '60s hardtop vs. Allante' scenario requiring anyone to chose while the loser gets crushed. The Allante is what it is... and when it is. I also missed any direct comparison between a V-16 and the Allante- this was just a historical listing of cars built using Cadillac chassis's by a massively-overrated coachbuilder.

>>"diesel fans are a bit non mainstream and probably would be independent thinkers and control freaks enough to want a manual anyways. "<< How did you come up with that conclusion ??

>>"Did you know that to make that Bentley a hardtop it costs $275,000 in R&D, parts & tooling PER CAR!?"<< Still, there was some horsesh!t about having to weld the top on jussst sooo or the whole car had to be scrapped? Did I say 'horsesh!t'? Like that quarter is any more complex than -say- a late '70s T-Bird. Frankly, the only thing about HE's pic above that says 'premium' is the fact that we know it costs so damned much- visually the car is a generic borefest. There's one 2 minutes up the road from me... it's a rental car.

>>"I wonder if Canadians do the same in the US... perhaps as revenge for Americans who cross the border for healthcare. "<< I've heard many Canadians have been crossing into the U.S. for healthcare. Doesn't one of the current jokes regarding their system go something like : "Having your baby in Canada? There's good news and bad news; the good news is universal healthcare will take care of the delivery doctor. The bad news is the waiting time to see him is 9 months."

>>"I thought the wreath and shield (as we know it today) originated on the '67 Eldorado and then moved to other models as time passed, no? Mine has it on the front of the hood and on the C-pillars in the top. Think of the DeVilles and Fleetwoods from their beginning to the late 70's/early 80's: only a shield, or a shield and V on the hood depending on how fancy it was. "<< It's older than that. Wreath & Crest (W/C) first appeared on the Fleetwood cars (Eldorado, S60S) for '63, and here it was the V/C (V/Crest) on the hoods and the W/C on the rear quarters. In '64- these models featured the W/C in all exterior locations. DeVilles always wore V/Cs until '70. What always struck me as unusual (and I learned this from somone pointing it out a few years ago on the 'net)- was that in '70-71, deVilles had ONLY a Crest with NO V or Wreath (S60S & E still had the W/C). Looked.... naked. By '72, the V returned. BTW- the Cimarron also only used a Crest. >>"Standup ornaments were shields ONLY, never with a wreath unless it was on an Eldorado at least until 1979 if I'm not mistaken."<< Stand-up hood ornaments appeared (this is after the flying goddeses of the '50s and earlier) with the '71 Eldorado (W/C). The next Caddy to get one was the Seville in '76 (W/C). Then in '77, the rest of the line got them, and here, yes, they were Crests only (Fleetwoods were probably W/Cs here, too). >>"I think Sevilles in 1980 got the wreath because they were Eldorados underneath, and the Fleetwoods got them short after. I've seen DeVilles with just shields as late as 1985; I think they were finally given a wreath and shield when they all went front wheel drive."<< Sevilles always wore W/Cs. Fleetwoods have had W/Cs since '63. Devilles would have Cs only as hood ornaments, but had V/Cs on the decklids up thru '84, which is the last time a V was used. You're right: Devilles went to W/Cs for '85. >>"Maybe originally, but our 1980 has the "V" and is one of the rare 6-cyl. models."<< Yes, but things change. 1980 is a long way from 1928 (first appearance I see -at quick glance- of a 'V' engine emblem). As I stated earlier, The 'V' as a symbol originally signified V-8 engine types, later it became the marque ID regardless of engine. Does the 'i' in bmw model names still denote 'injected' as it used to 30 years ago? I hope that, too, is no longer as literal.

Yea- I don't get making specific assumptions about cars wrapped like mummies: the 'split' in the headlights is part of the camo- what are they seeing that I'm not that tells them the lense is going to be split?? While we're here- what was the model/year span for the mercedes' 'peanut' headlight- that was distinctive (if not particularly graceful), but it came & went.

I don't find the Imaj to resemble the Magnum- which is a low, level wagon (about the slickest I've seen)... the Imaj is more like a whale cresting the surface of the water...

>>"And Honda recommends changing the oil filter every other oil change..."<< Ahh, in other words, following GM's example from the '50s when oil filters first became standard equipment ('59 Buick~ oil change at 2-3K, filter change at 4K). By the mid '60s, GM wisely abandoned that practice ('65 Pontiac~ change both at 6K). Saving a few dollars and continuing to use a contaminated filter is foolhardy, but the manufacturers are caught in a conundrum RE maintenance: shorter intervals increase longevity & improve reputation (and reduce warranty claims)... but people are lazy and like the sound of 'lifetime fluids'. OEMs are pushing longer cycles, but the service industry is pushing shorter & shorter intervals, further confusing the consumer. Aamco has advertised YEARLY transmission fluid changes- that's insane.

The Motor Trend piece needs some clarification: >>"The two companies didn't begin conceiving and building cars until the 1950s. Several were concept cars; those shiny, turntable dream machines you see at the auto shows, which are often used to gain press and public reaction to possible future design ideas. A few others were limited production models."<< I would consider the above to be accurate if 'the 2 companies began conceiving & building' was defined as : Cadillac built the chassis's and/or the complete car, and Pinninfarina bought them and customized them on their own. There is no verification that Cadillac commissioned ANY of the following cars (indeed many 'students' of Cadillac find it highly doubtful): the 1954 Cabriolet Speciale, the 1958 Cabriolet Four-Posti, the 1959 Coupe Four-Posti, the 1959 Starlight Coupe and the 1961 Brougham Coupe "Jacqueline". In addition, I do not believe any of these were ever shown in the U.S.- they are known to have been shown in Geneva & Paris, tho. The only verified 1950s project between Cadillac & Pinninfarina was the production '59-60 Eldorado Broughams (200 designed & built in Italy by PF). In today's light- it may seem logical to assume that Cadillac looked to Pinninfarina for 'help' in improving their designs.... but the fact of the matter is- PF did not improve on Cadillac's RPO designs in any of these one-offs. They did not receive widespread acclaim when new, they did not create any demand here in the U.S., none of the stylistic features were ever incorporated and they were not considered for production. PF was one in a chain of private & professional customizers/coachbuilders that tried to hook their wagons to Cadillac's star in the '50s.... but ultimately failed. Under the '61 Jacqueline, it states: "...as is typical of Pininfarina, the roof pillars are thin to create a feeling of openness." Not mentioned is the fact that GM introduced a very thin pillared greenhouse for MY59. Under the '54 Cabriolet Speciale, it states: "In 1954, most American cars were large and relatively upright. This special bodied roadster is low and relatively unadorned by comparison." True... except in comparison to the concept '53 Cadillac LeMans, which was MUCH sleeker and MUCH lower than the PF design.

Grotesque. Schizophrenic: each styling element is off a different vehicle. None of it makes any clear sense. I hope & pray toyo brings it here exactly as is.

I like the front- the surfaces planes, the subtle creasing, the stacked headlights. Looks both expensive & hi-tech. Rear is OK- pretty tall (and I wish Caddy would drop the CHMSL/spoiler- I hate it) Profile kills it for me: too wagonish.

Well, I would assume -even tho it did not appear close to when Cadillac debuted their V-8 (1914) - it signified V-8 engines. The V began appearing in the late '20s (likely with knowledge the V-12 & V-16s were coming) in the engine emblems on the grilles, and were used heavily in the early-to-later '30s, then reappeared in the marque emblem for '46 and running for decades afterward.

Saudi production increases, in & of themselves- are not going to do much of anything for the price- we only get a small percentage of our oil from them. The biggest potential effect would be if we were to be allowed to drill on untapped U.S. fields, but the Dems keep banning it. I agree that there's a big energy bubble already formed, and it should deflate very soon.... but we need something to 'happen' to break the current speculation stupor. What that would be I don't know; can't see it from here... but it better get here soon.

For a long while the 'lower' tier Cadillacs used the 'V'd Crests, while the upper lines used the Wreath/Crest- so a deVille wearing a V is consistant; E's, Sevilles & Fleetwoods would used the Wreath/Crest. The vertical wings were used numerous years on the taillamps, but I always read those as more of an 'accented' Crest, not a diffrent emblem. But never did a Crest & V appear on the SAME emblem.

My favorites are the '42 and '59 versions- but esp the '42's vertical wings. I also like the pronounced crown of '30. And although I would prefer to see crown points on it, the current one is pretty slick- I like the 'streamlined' Wreath there.

Fish stories always grow with each telling. >>"The 55 Chevy egg crate grill and headlight styling was stolen from Ferrari at the Paris autoshow in the early 50's."<< The Chevy headlights had nothing to do with being taken from ferrari- Chevy debut a hooded lamp for '55 (actually borrowed from Cadillac) and ferrari had never had anything like that before - so that idea is dead. As for the grille, I strongly suspect the claim was marketing more than anything else, after all, Cadillac debuted the eggcrate grille in the late '30s to considerable attention, and it was emulated by many many other makes in later years. Where did ferrari get it's grillework inspiration from, hmmm? Oh, that's right: it's ferrari- the only inspiration there is from Mt. Olympus. As for the overall shape, the C-55 has just as much in common with an early '50s ferrari as it does with a '41 Willys, but which sounds more romantic?? This story ('55 Chevy grille >> lifted from ferrari) is repeated & repeated & repeated until it just about overshadows the story of the '55 shoebox altogether. It immediately reminds me of the like '63 Riv story: supposedly Mitchell was inspired by seeing a Rolls roofline thru the fog while in London in '59... yet when you look at pics of circa '58 Rolls'- there's no similarity whatsoever; just a fat, rounded blob of a roofline/C-pillar, not the Riv's razor-edged concave lines..... yet now all we repeatedly read is 'the Riv owns it's inspiration from Rolls Royce' over & over & over (at least I see this repeatedly), and it blows. Nevermind that Buick Stylist Ned Nickles pretty much designed the Riv (then known as the LaSalle II) as it debuted BEFORE Mitchell went to London in '59 (who here has heard that part of the story?? Who here even knows the name Ned Nickles??). There's a clear sketch in the 5/85 Collectible Automobile story on the '63-65 Riv. There's no question, it's merely marketing. Again: it's boils down to nothing more than a subtle yet effective degredation of General Motors --intentional from some, subliminal with others-- and repeated by those who even believe themselves to be unwavering fans of the Corp., because it sounds good/ romantic/ bull&#036;h&#33;/ whatever. This goes all the way to Earl & Mitchell, too, at times. I don't buy it- I truely believe it's just clever marketing.

Why are they refered to as 'kidneys' when they were never in in a 'kidney' shape ? Ever see a human kidney or a kidney bean? I never got this, but suspect it's to deflect having them called what they call to mind: pig's nostrils. Sat is right- BMW has used the same grilles for basically 50 years (yawn), whereas Pontiac debuted a completely different split grille first for '59.

>>"Looks very good, but this car is going to look so old by the time people can buy it. People whine about a car needing an update after 4-5 years. That's how long we'll have seen this car for by the time people can buy it! It's still a cool car, and will probably sell, but c'mon. "<< I disagree... after all, we all kno BMW has pawned the same nose (black plastic horizontal grilles, 4 round headlights, chromed nostrils) on their cars for like 30 years (up to the BangledMWs, and even there....)- and that seemed to work fine. The style the '09 Camaro pays homage to has YET to BEGIN to fade from popularity/ collectibility, but at least there new car buyers have had a break, plus this car is much farther removed from the original than over @ BMW, so I have no doubt this will not grow old- it's already a classic before it even hits the showroom.

>>"How GM missed this mark so terribly.....on a vehicle (all the GMT-900s) that are really so far superior in most other ways......is a testament to the lack of competence in GM product planners/engineers/managers that has lead us to so many uncompetitive GM vehicles over the years."<< That's a pretty lofty hindsight assessment, IMO. But my original question was- what features that the Escalade offers are pulling buyers from the Navigator & the gl? Isn't the Escalade MORE than competitive w/ the other 2 in sales on average, or no ?

Well, The Great Camaro states the amount was only $18 per car, and that money went into upgrading the interior. IMO, the coupe design of the 2nd gen works perfectly well with the rest of the body- it's not like its a cheap-o fixed-quarter-window 2-dr sedan! It's also not like the $18 saved was pocketed- the money still went into the car itself. 'Fraid I cannot lay blame here... Personally, I'm a full-size car guy; always have been (all the intermediates and smaller have traditionally been de-engineered from the big cars anyway). But around 2002 I got the opportunity to sit in a '71 T/A for a spell, and I DUG that car, which surprised me mightily. I could actually see myself owning one... maybe... it was pretty damned cool.

>>"NOW....if we could only get a power-folding-into-the-floor third-row seat in the Escalade, I won't continue to lose customers to the GL450 and Navigator."<< And what features of the Escalade are causing the loss of customers from the gl & Navigator?

That's a tough one, Veez- and the man's not really that old. I hope, in the event a remedy is not forthcoming, that he may be made comfortable at the very least. What, may I ask, did he do for work in his younger days? He missed WWII- did he serve during the Korean War? Hope things work out for the best for him.

>>"I was just looking at the Cadillac in your sig again and thinking, no other company, no other culture could come up with something so phucking incredible as that. It's not just a car. It's beyond that. "<< I would have to agree with you, and I'm not even particularly partial to the '67-68s. But this one has a great color and it's sittin' mighty purty. >>"dont get me wrong, i love the 1st gens, but they were more or less a compromise styling wise... when it was decided that there wasnt time to build a mustang competitor, time was not available to build a ground up platform, thats why the 1st gens were mostly X-body components"<< I don't see this as any sort of detriment to the 1st gens, at all. Clearly, the hobbyist has long ago spoken as to which they prefer, and only 1 of the 2 gens has an authentic brand new steel body shell being forged for the aftermarket. But this is too often mentioned (in general- 'this was sourced from that') as if to explain away shortcomings. At one point there was a long rambling paragraph (since pared down a bit) on wiki on the 1st gen Seville, going on & on about wheel bolt circles between the Seville & a Nova- as if that said anything more than what it did- the same wheels could bolt onto either car. Again- this sort of thing is commonplace, entrenched, in references to GM product, and it serves no purpose but to degrade. BTW- 2nd gen F-Body has a very steep windshield too. And the same aforementioned book states the Camaro & the Chevy II shared : "cowl structures, floorpans, the subframe & basic rear suspension systems. I can't go as far as to call that "most".

>>"That design is not aging well....."<< That understandable, as it was dated when brought out. I can't believe there have not been clamoring posts from people harping & grinding on maserati losing money for 17 years: when will the company execs get their heads out of their asses, maserati will be gone in 3 or 4 years, discontinue the brand, etc etc etc.