balthazar

Interesting article on safety tech and it's ballooning costs & debatable results: Lookie >>"Ironically, by improving visibility these so-called smart beams could encourage people to drive faster — and more dangerously — at night."<< This is a general thought I've had, esp in context of reading a debate on a hot rodders forum about vintage vs. new car safety. More & more safety features enable increasing dependancy and less experience/ intuitive skills. Many on the hot rodders forum were of the opinion that cars were safer, but drivers were much less so (not to mention way more distracted). I can agree with that without hesitation. >>"Despite conferring a James Bond kind of cool, night vision hasn't caught on; Cadillac and Lexus discontinued their versions due to poor sales. Sure, the technology works as advertised, but it also presents a fundamental driving dilemma: whether to look at the screen or the road."<< Wasn't Cadillac's imagery projected onto the windshield vs. mercede's dash screen? If it's true these sorts of features are rising in demand, I wonder if Cadillac will re-introduce it soon?

I prefer the '68-70 lamps in the fender edges I think; it does look more 'finished'. Wonder if the blank was in anticipation of '68, or because stamping a fender that sharply & deeply creased would've been near impossible... so the lights moved on purpose to 'fill' than blank area... Interesting, because in the '67 print ads, the seam for the blank is airbrushed out.... Those rear qrtr vents are a puzzle to me- they aren't really even seen unless you are standing alongside the quarters... hardly noticable from the rear... they're not related to A/C, are they (did the white car have A/C?)? For many years, Cadillac had quarter intakes in this spot for A/C cars and the Series 75s... Look @ the ass of that white car- damn that's sexy!

Veezel- the tires are a neccessity for traction--> car is going to have a lot of power. Pic doesn't show it well, but they are treaded tires, not slicks (tho I have a pair of 29.5" M&Hs, too). -- -- -- -- -- '72 Buick 455 block has been boiled & completely deburred. Here it sits mocked-up with T/A Performance Stage II aluminum heads & single plane intake just sitting there. Heads flow 300+ cfm out of the box. Crank has also been deburred. Peeking out the front of the oil pan is the T/A block girdle, a heavy cast brace to keep the bottom end of the motor from doing the hoochiecoochie under WOT. I also have a new front timing cover, 1.65 shaft rockers, valve covers & oil pump, and I need to order the 3" primary headers soon, because that steering box (rebuilt with a faster ratio: 3.3 turns l-t-l) is jutting into the header's turf and I think I am going to have to fab at least 2 tubes on that side. Carb, pistons, rods, valves, springs, dist..... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ still to come. And machine work. I don't like to think about the bill here. But on the happy side, in order to be able to turn right around 11.0s in the quarter, the car need to put out about 575 HP. Hence the tires. Girdle is prolly overkill for a car under 600 HP, but what the hell- I value over-engineering things. Trans is going to be a '70 code BC Buick THM400 (ONOZ! OMG!! Slushtboxzez suxzorz!!). Mid '69 and later units have 'case saver rings', an internal cast reinforcement. And in another example of me going overboard, I recently cut the factory bellhousing off to replace it with this, an SFI-approved UltraBell: More recently I have been pondering an auto OD unit. Gear Vendors has a 'splitter' OD unit that bolts on the back of the TH400... and although it's rated for like 1200 HP, it's also about $2K new. Instead I'm strongly considering a 4L80E, the 'overdrive Turbo 400'. These need some other bits to make it work (a 'brain box' and an analog speedometer drive thingie), but they are more like $3500. Then again- I'd still have to get the TH400 built. Mulling all this over, need to do a spreadsheet. 4L80E rear mount is 2.5-in farther rearward than the TH400, should be no big deal to fabricate a modified trans mount & keep the crossmember where it is. With the tires planned and 3.73 gears, the car would be turning about 2520 RPM @ 60 MPH. Frankly, after driving ODs for 20 years, when I shift out of OD in my 3.73 Silverado, I turn about the same RPM and it just feels & sounds... wrong. Still pondering cost vs. expected frequency of use...

So the '67s had separate 'fender blanks' where the '68's running lights are... as opposed to being solid there ??

I do have a '65 Bonneville 2-dr hardtop, but yer dad doesn't want what's left of it. I don't think the scrap guy even would. -- -- -- -- -- I had a friend who worked for a Pontiac/Olds engine builder do some work on it next. I did not trust my (lack of) bodywork experience at this point to experiment on my baby. I bought what may have been the last NORS B-59 quarter patch panels available; the lower half in 2 panels that split over each rear wheel. Aftermarket rockers are still readily available, tho in the repair, my buddy Joe put 2x3" steel tubing inside the rockers from cowl to rear wheelwell to help support them, making a secondary double frame rail. The body is incredibly stiff (even without a B-Pillar ). Here's a sectional view of the rocker/frame area- the green areas are what was added/replaced. Here's some cruddy surgery pics snipped from video: A local engine/chassis builder modified the rear of the frame to fit an axle & suspension befitting it's intended future use. B-59s use a unique 'K' frame, and the builder said he'd never worked on a car with such a beefy frame. So he cut the 'K' member out. The floor bracing noted above is C-channel welded to the body shell (like a unibody 'frame' so to speak). Standard practice. My buddy also built the rear for the car, using a truck Dana 60 with a 4-pinion posi, 31-spline Moser halfshafts & 3.73 Richmond gears. He built 36" fully-adjustable ladder bars and a new Panhard bar. The factory Buick wheelwells are very large, but the framerails protruded into the well, so in order to put a larger tire on, he ended up back-halving the car- everything from about 1.5' in front of the rear on back is all new... but was made to accomodate everything factory that was staying: gas tank, fuel filler & all body mount points (B-59s utilize 22 body mounts). Rear tires are 315/60-15 BFG Drag Radials on 10" rims. Car here looks like it's riding high because of the lighting & angle; but from the curb the car sits quite low: Suspension is adjustable at both the front of the ladder bars, & the axle, so once all the weight is on, it can be fine-tuned as needed. Solid motor mounts & a custom trans crossmember was also fabb'd. I forgot to mention I had the body media-blasted, too. After getting the car back from Joe, she looked like so :

I absolutely LOVE this gen Eldorado. No other car has repeatedly caused me to circle it for 20-30 minutes, drinking in the lines and eyeballing all possible vantage points. The lines on this car are towering, monsterous, hell, I've never come close to owning one but I've dreamt about a '67-70 more than once. I am amazed it has not yet 'taken off' in value- it's overdue for that. Looking forward to the plans for this one.

Yea; that's the crazy, factory system: mufflers ahead of the axle (don't see 'em in that pic), resonators at the rear. -- -- -- -- I am firmly of the school that believes a Buick should have a Buick engine, and with a ton of aftermarket support for the Buick 455 (would you believe multiple aftermarket blocks??), the choice was made. My engine came from a another Artic White Buick, a '72 Riviera Sport Coupe that had been whalloped in the rear, a standard 315 HP/450 TRQ (gross) 455 (that's 7.5 liters for you noobs). At this point a number of other cars left my paddock to help fund this, including the rest of the Riv (thru the Riv Owners Assoc) : 1957 Ford F-250 Styleside : 1973 Dodge Charger Rallye 440 : 1965 Pontiac Catalina 2-sr sedan : 1965 Pontiac Bonneville 2-dr hardtop : 1965 Pontiac Bonneville 4-dr hardtop : 1964 Pontiac Catalina 4-dr sedan. This one below left in 2017, it's monies will also go into the Buick Fund :

(I apologize in advance if/when I ramble on overly long....) THE CAR was basically presentable, tho there was contained, deteriorating rot repair in the lower front fenders, the lower rear quarters and some rot in the rockers. There were also 2 strange fist-sized holes in a vertical panel in the trunk... but overall, the floors and the rest of the car were very solid. My invicta was built in June '59 in the Wilmington BOP plant, and sold thru Pollino Buick in Ambler PA (since merged/moved/renamed... and apparently closed now). Standard Invicta equipment included a cloth & vinyl combination upholstery, DeLuxe steering wheel, DeLuxe wheel covers, Foamtex seat cushions, electric clock, electric wipers, padded dash, dual horns, trip odometer and a glovebox light. As built, my Invicta also came with the follwing options: power steering, heater/defroster, SonoMatic AM radio, E-Z-Eye tinted windshield, Safety Group (Speed Safety Buzzer, back-up lamps, Glare-Proof inside rearview mirror, parking brake warning light, map light), dual exhaust & whitewall tires. Didn't scan too well, but here's 1 of the 2 hand-written build sheets found during the teardown... '4637' is an Invicta hardtop coupe, 'CC' is Artic White body/roof, '601' is the green/black/white upholstery/interior color, rest is options: D1 : Sonomatic AM radio / manual antenna B1 : heater/defroster C : power steering F : Safety Group - BU lights, non-glare mirror, P-brake light, map light, Safety Buzzer speedometer I7 : EZI tinted windshield T1 : whitewall tires These were added to the standard Invicta features of DeLuxe steering wheel, DeLuxe hubcaps, padded dash, dual exhaust & rear license plate frame. In the time up until this point (6 years of ownership)- the B-59 did not rise in value according to the Old Cars Price Guide even tho relatively uncommon (11,451 built); an Invicta 2-dr hardtop was worth a year in-year out $7000 in #1 perfect shape. As she sat, she was technically a #4, or worth $1500 (I paid $500). Mileage was 103K when the odometer broke... I estimate it had 105-110K on it. I looked into hopping up the factory powertrain, and although the Wildcat 401 V-8 (325 HP) was more than willing and parts are available, the rest of the powertrain (TwinTurbine DynaFlow, TorqueTube enclosed driveshaft, Buick 9.375" 3.23 open axle) were not. The TwinTurbine was not modifiable nor advantageous for performance, and the rear, being uniquely-designed to couple to the TorqueTube, had no aftermarket gears available. Here is a B-59 chassis pic I cribbed off the 'net (NOT MINE) : Note the rear suspension- the TorqueTube is red, and those angled red bars are the lower control arms. They're about 4' long and attach to the TorqueTube, so once again, change 1 thing here and you're changing it all. B-59s also utilize a factory Panhard bar to control side-to-side motion (no doubt a neccessity with those elongated control arms)- something that appeared much later on the GNX, BTW. Air-Poise rear air suspension was an infrequently-ordered option, mine doesn't have it. So between a lust for performance and owning a collector-ignored example, I felt no guilt in 'resto-modding' the car. I stripped the B-59 apart over the next year or so, pulling the entire powertrain and selling it off (the 401 went into a FL '63 Riviera, and the axle & transmission are in NY State as cores for another B-59 damaged in a fire).

Some brief history first: My buddy & I used to cruise all over central NJ & eastern PA looking for vintage iron. We were both Pontiac men, but always had an eye for other American iron (Cadillac, Buick, MoPar, independants). When we rolled up on this '59 Buick in Doylestown PA... ...I remember saying 'If it's an Invicta, it's mine'... Series 4600 Invictas used the smaller 123" wheelbase LeSabre chassis with the big car Electra engine; the 'Wildcat' 401 CI. This was the 'performance' series in Buick's catalog, preceded by the '54-58 Century and followed by the '62-70 Wildcats. Always into performance, the Invicta was the most exclusive B-59 and the perfect choice. I am not into convertibles, esp in this era; lopping that 'bubbletop' roof off, with those fantastic lines and all that stainless and replacing it with wrinkled canvas is borderline criminal, in my book... and 4-drs are for families. I took it for a long test drive a week or so later, dust billowing off it's unregistered & uninsured curves (it had been sitting about a year at this point), and although it had what felt to me to be notable 'departures' from the Pontiacs I was used to (at this point, Pontiac really did do interiors noticably better), I was smitten. She spent about a year in this picturesque barn down the road from my parent's house... ...then another 2 in my parent's driveway under a tarp, until I had my house & shop built. This is my shop; 24x48 : She then slumbered another 3 years or so in Bay #1 before I tore into the project. More to come...

You know- I never did click on this thread before. I dismissed it as being a 'design' thread or something, I guess; I did not realize it was a hands-on, in-the-steel project. I skimmed thru just now- very thorough job Camino! Nutshell it for me: you bought the Camino to resto, where does the wagon fit in- a 2nd concurrent resto?

>>"I am very curious as to how much of a price drop in gasoline there will be once Bush's term in office ends and the new President is ushered in."<< I would not expect ANY price change directly related solely to Bush leaving office. But I am still hearing analysts (another one today) say the fundamentals for oil only support circa $80/barrel by this summer.

68- you've looked up 'swamp coolers', right? In the same interesting, quaint vein... Sorry- I give a fistful of points to anything I haven't seen before, and the Red Cat Auto Awning is one of those infrequent ones. Just remembered- dig this:

>>"The trucks are worth about $3,000- $5,000K and Toyota is paying over Blue Book... giving $11,000-$12,000 for these trucks."<< Textbook definition of hush money. My '94 Ford has 146K on it and was once (inadvertantly) driven thru ocean-flooded streets. There's a bunch of surface rust now where there wasn't (this occurred in '06), but the frame is still 100% up to spec as far as real rust/rot goes. I thought when toyota trucks were going to "change everything" the implication was 'for the better'.

Yes, but Olds would not be selling 261K in '08, either, and they would probably be down to more like 3 models, too. Compare the same year's numbers, at least.

So it occurred to me- where does the azeza figure in all this? Killed off? Does this step on it's toes or is the azeza a whole segment cheaper??

>>"The race motors might give the engineers valuable experience in that respect; but regardless of how many stock parts are used, those race motors are likely rebuilt between each event, and the production motors need to last thousands of, if not a million, miles."<< They may very well be torn down regularly, but of course there's a lot at stake in professional racing that makes this a prudent practice. Of course, ANY street engine is not subject to anywhere near the demands a 1000+ HP drag motor is, so the relative small sliver of 300 HP should not see undue durability issues- jeez; it's not that big of a step over the 260 HP even if that is the 2.4L mill. But the fact that half of the OEM parts can handle that level of power is very much the point: MOST if not all of the current parts should handle a mere 300 HP with long-term durability if they can handle 3.5 times that under sledgehammer conditions.

Well, see, in most earlier years, the T/A was a separate 'model'. For example, all 3 '74 Ventura bodystyles were coded 2XY, toss the GTO option on the 2-dr coupe & it was still 2XY. Both the GP LJ and the GP SJ were both 2GK models. But the same year you got the : 2FS Firebird 2FT Firebird Esprit 2FU Firebird Formula 2FV Firebird Trans Am I know these are the same car equipped only minorly-different in body, powertrain, suspension & options, but according to PMD these were 4 different models as opposed to option packages. Likely there were enough assembly differences to warrant this, but that's an assumption on my part.

red '62 Corvette with softop up '67 Galaxie 4-dr sedan, exc condition circa '32 Ford 5-window hotrod peeking out from a garage

The 1000-HP Ecotec race motors use over 50% stock parts, IIRC; 300 should be a snap.

mule bakersdozen LS :>>"Park Avenue debuted as an option package on the top-line Electra 225 Limited 4-door hardtop sedan for 1975 I believe"<< Correct: a $495 option. >>"...as for Gran Sport, it was an option package (not a separate trim) on Century 350 2-door hardtop coupes from 1973-74 I believe."<< Also still listed for '75 ($171) - so the GS went option -> series -> option. GTO did the same thing ('64-74). >>"When the Skylark was redesigned for 1973... there were three trims: 350... Century Luxus ... and the new Regal..."<< Still looks to me (by looking at the codes) that the Regal was a model as opposed to an option... the griffin :>>"Neither, but there isn't a one-one correlation between models and model names, or between a model series (different models in a related series of vehicles) and a model name. Sometimes one model series will get to two separate model names (Century and Regal), sometimes some models in a series will get an additional name to distinguish them (Electra Park Avenue, Lucerne Super), sometimes a model name will be shared by different model series (as Oldsmobile did with Cutlass), with or without a secondary name (such as Regal) to distinguish them. BTW Toyota does the same thing. The Celica XX becoming the Celica Supra and finally the Supra."<< Your toyota example (correct me if I am wrong) is illustrative of successive years. When I use the term 'series' I do not use it in the literal sense, but in reference to a 'model line' as coded by the manufacturer, ie: 1966 Pontiac Star Chief Executive 25669 - 4-dr sedan 25639 - 4-dr hardtop 25637 - 2-dr hardtop '256' denotes the Star Chief series / model line. Catalinas were 252s, Bonnevilles were 262s. The Lucerne & Lucerne Super are either coded separately (ie: separate models), or there is only 1 code for the Lucerne and the Super package is an option like... different wheels or the like. I would not be surprised at all to learn that the current system works differently that my obvious sphere of focus...

Careful, tho; unless you get a '67, that Firebird I-6 is a IBC Chevy mill.

'39 Merc chopped convert, '48 Hudson Club Coupe, '50 Ford shoebox, '61 Super 88 bubbletop. Oh, and a true first: a tundra actually towing something (small motorcycle trailer, prolly empty )

{gets off ass & checks ref...} 1973 : Regal was a new series. 1985 : FWD Somerset Regal (GM-10 IIRC) in addition to the RWD Regal. 1986-87 : FWD Somerset, RWD Regal. 1988 : FWD Somerset becomes 'Regal', RWD Regal discontinued. So to summarize InvictaMan's point of Buick packages becoming models & vice-versa, here's what I see: Wildcat ('62: option, '63-70: series) Gran Sport ('65: option, '66-72: series) Riviera ('49-62: body style name, '63-99 series) Park Avenue ('78-80: option, '91-at least '04: series) Not sure here: Super ('40-58: model, '07?-present: is it an option or a model??) Regal was not an option package, neither was Somerset. Skylark was coded individually when it appeared in '53 & again in '61.

Hey GMTG- you check this link out before? www.napco4x4.org According to their history link, I was right: NAPCOs didn't show up documented on GM trucks until the 55 2nd series, due to the earlier trucks' enclosed driveshafts. Also, looks like the 'factory '56-59 systems were in fact still NAPCO packages, until Chevy re-engineered the chassis for '60 with IFS. Also, I found a feature piece on a sweet '56 GMC in Smoke Signals from earlier in the past year, the truck has 12 forward speeds (4-spd manual, Hi-Lo splitter, 4-spd transfer case). Add in the parking brake and there's 4 stick shifts jutting up from the floor. Love the '55-57 bodies.

Oh, and officially; there's a new Worst Manufacturer-Sourced Photo King... I have about 5000 print ads in my collection, and this one visually is easily the worst out of all of them. It's not artsy, it doesn't make a point... it's just dismal.