balthazar

ocnblu- I agree with everything you've written above 1000%. BV- I'm still not asking for outright retro by referencing '60s Pontiacs, I'm asking for the persona and the flair and the individuality & the DNA, not necessarily a tangible design cue. Ocnblu hits the nail dead-on- this is a very good car hardware-wise, but take off the split grille and it can be a dozen other brand's sport sedan. For a 'revival' model- it ain't. Answer yourself this: is this the BEST flagship Pontiac sports sedan it could be?

blackviper8891; >>"Pontiacs throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s.... could have all easily passed for another American car, styling wise."<<Thru the entire '60s and well into the '70s, no they could not. There was strong brand DNA, and that carried (tho less strongly) into the late '70s and thru the '80s, too. You're just wrong on this count. >>"The one's continuing to beat a dead horse, like yourself and PCS, are simply complaining about the fact that it's not retro, not American, not over styled..."<< No one putting down the G8 on initial pics has specifically demanded 'retro', but in contrast a number (ocnblu & myself for 2) HAVE asked for a more family resemblence... more Pontiac flair and heritage.... but not straight-cut retro. If you do not know the '60s & '70s Pontiacs first-hand, you are just not going to know what we're talking about here. That generation was above the pedestrian and the commonplace- that has been missing for a lo-oong time. It wasn't there in Pontiacs you are a fan of, BV.

>>"...the styling would make a great Toyota Solara!"<< Except for one thing- the typical toyota buyer is not used to that much style & substance.

That's why I always argue on the side of toyota; they're perfect. And no; GM is not trying to fix anything that's wrong; in fact I heard thru the insider grapevine that both cars will be cancelled and Wilmington will be shuttered because of this; it's more cost efffective. :wink:

Hell, if it's going to Philly, it's coming to Jersey, where it can nose up to a surgery-recovering Invicta and pep-talk it into rolling again.

Never mind the frameless glass- where's the brand-made-famous cladding?!?!? Seriously, have any of you guys really felt subarus have been attractive... to the point that something here was 'ruined'? It's damned ugly, and no surprise to me. Interior design is not bad, tho it looks awful cramped.

Clarkson = the Gallagher of auto 'journalism'.

She looks so much better without the 'cruiser' skirts. Does your speedo work? If so, how about the Safety Buzzer? Great pix series.

Get the '40 Ford on the road. Put down a paver sidewalk & patio. Replace the gutters on the house. Take the brood for FL for vaca. Hershey in the fall. Look for a new renovation gig I can rake in some coin on. Get drunk and stagger around cemeteries, talking to my ancestors.

I don't believe so, Camino, tho I do get dizzy when thinking about post'-76es. I tried to keep to the parameters of the question: pre-'77 for GM and full-size RWD for all 3. Pontiac put V-6s in some f/s-ers after '77, but not earlier. '81 Catalina 3.8 is one example. I could not find a reference for the 3.8 in a big Buick before '76... IIRC correctly that's when the re-purchased V-6 tooling was releasing production; for the '76MY. Olds had the tiny 260 V-8, but even that wasn't offered in the f/s '75s... Lots of V-6 usage in intermediates and less-than-full-sizers...

Shortest ownership (vintage) : 3 weeks. Longest ownership (vintage) : 21 years and counting Only new vehicle data : 13 years and counting

SSCCHHWWEEEEETT !!! Not a hardtop but who'll notice (besides you & me); she still rocks. You lucked out: you have the chrome window trim- really dresses her up nice. The skirts only bother me because they're not factory and the factory wheelwell lip is there- looks... well; non-factory. The power steering will help tremendously. Looking forward to great detail. A badass hungry bitch- treat her good and she'll treat you good. My hat is off to you, Sly. Hot damn.

Mazda is seriously worthy of some in-depth scientific study here: they are excellent at attracting new buyers even tho they cannot seem to retain them. The disparity is unsurpassed.

>>"538 sales down in Acura is slight, 15,124 sales increase in Honda isn't slight."<< I like to play the percentages game and ignore the actual numbers... you know; exactly the same approach the U.S. media has always played regarding GM's marketshare. Not so much fun when the practice is turned on your particular fav, eh? >>"You keep repeating this, but have you ever taken into consideration that Honda has added the Japanese built Fit this past year. Eliminate it and suddenly import car sales are about the same as they were last year while the only domestic built Honda to have sales gains is the Accord. "<< I keep repeating it hoping to find an answer. Adding one new japanese-built model does not answer why domestic produced-honda volume is falling, esp when the overall corporate numbers (depending on which ones you prefer to focus on) are 'way up'. Look at the actual YTD quantities- U.S. production totals are DOWN: YTD~ domestic car : down 5,000 units domestic truck : down 1,000 units import car : up 10,000 units import truck : up 14,000 Of those 24,000 import units, Fit sales were 9,000. Now... honda existing cars gained in only one slot: the non-hybrid accord. honda trucks gained in only one spot: the cr-v. That puts the rest of honda's lineup on the decline. It would be interesting to read a piece focusing on this, along with a lot of half-baked proposals on 'How I Would Fix Honda'. acura is down across the board; a mainstream article on 'The Complacent Decline of Honda's Acura' would likewise be a refreshing eye-opener. Should I hold my breath?

If acura's 6.8% decline is "slight", then honda's 5.0% increase is far from "way up". I see the recent notable trend of honda shifting more and more production to overseas plants continues: YTD~ domestic car : down 5.8% domestic truck : down 1.7% import car : up 27.6% import truck : up 41.3%

What's even more interesting: '62 was the ONLY year Merc had a 6-banger available in the full-size line. Dodge began offering the Slant Six in the Polara beginning in '70: 145 (gross) HP against circa 4000 lbs; fun. Plymouth and Dodge were in lockstep after circa '60; they must've offered the same. Looks like Buick optionally offered the 6 beginning in '76; prior to that Buick only had the hoary 250 I-6 in the intermediates. Now we're talking circa 4400 lbs with a 105 HP 3.8; Dear God.

Pontiac : 1954 Olds : 1950 Buick : 1976 Chevy : 1976 Ford : 1971 Merc : 1962 Chrysler : 1954 Dodge : 1981 Plymouth : 1981

'64-65 Mustang coupe '63 Chrysler 4-dr hardtop (2) '68-72 Novas But here's the monster, and I swear I'm not making this up. Saw a brand new tundra tonight (the 1st I've seen), less than a mile from the toyota dealer, on the onramp to U.S. Route 1.... sitting with it's flashers on and a growing line of traffic behind it, lead by a tractor-trailer that could not pass him. Priceless.

>>- “it was arguably past its best-buy date in terms of styling. When we brought it in, that basic styling configuration in the market…for close to seven or eight years. If you bring in a car, it should be in the beginning of its design cycle.”<< Ehh, styling has not 'progressed' much at all since '04, nor from '00 to '04 for that matter. The design is not dated. I've been seeing a number of them, all carefully parked at the ends of lots or in driveways, meticulously cared for & shined. Seems their owners have a deep appreciation for them regardless. >>- “We overpriced it.”<< Agreed. >>- “We maldistributed it. We based distribution on historic Pontiac sales…it turned out that was completely wrong.”<< No info to dispute this. But one thing has been missed: the name GTO set up certain expectations that were not realized stylistically. The style wasn't wrong, but it was wrong for a 'GTO'.

>>"How come when the Rednecks do the same thing,but use 44" super swampers you guys love it? "<< Gotta say: my brother had a '79 Chevy K-20 on 44s for a while- it was a damn circus parade on the street: riding eye-to-eye with Kenworth drivers, having people take pictures and girls flash you down at the beach... I rode in it only once and it was a blast... but it's not for me on a regular basis. He had to sell it when NJ outlawed anything bigger than 38"s (IIRC)- it's down in Missouri now, where stranglating martial law like that is still a good 50 years in the future.

IMO, this is still the best-looking design in the segment, and no other company matches Ford for the sheer number of variants & packages to keep the line fresh & interesting; Harley & Foose- that's huge namw recognition. Ford may have more than it's share of issues right now, but with pickups it remains at the top of it's game.

Born & raised here, family & friends are still here, but without a doubt the taxes will drive me over the border within 10 years. Traveled some over the years, but this section of the U.S. just fits me: I could live in PA or NYS vs. what I've seen elsewhere (MD, DE, MI, FL, VT).

For those of you who cannot bear the automotive thought of owning anything with any component designed more than 24 months ago, I bring you the 40" (you may wish to call it the 'double-dub'- frankly I have no idea if there's established slang for this already): Bear in mind that the 26" was a protoype in 2002.

Never heard any source reference 'compass points'; pretty sure with Pontiac's top-line Star Chief models in the '50s and in that all the '50s models with stars on the upholstery or exterior always had 4 points, that the '59 Arrowhead '4-pointer' is denoting a star.

Wha... no tundra?? I heard it's "changing the way you work"...