Mr.Krinkle

i think that a lot of what they say holds true. it makes me wonder, too. but i just hope what theyre saying doesnt have anything to do what buickman happens to blowing at them. hes been trying to make this silly little point that has nothing to do what is actualy going to happen, and doesnt quite see what everyone has said at least once before, now...again. thats too much for one sentence...but here, take the time to read this again. what if 6 turned into 9, does buickman mind? here ya go. Here you go.....I actually saved this......you'll find each of Buickman's "steps" followed by MHOs of his "steps." I may be no Evok, but at least this gives you something to ponder.....(sorry for the looooong post) This whole plan seems to be a Michigan-centric proposal that does next to nothing to really address the major challenges that GM faces….those challenges being over-capacity, excessive costs, lackluster product, and in many cases, a severly-ineffective dealer body. Not much of this plan seems relevant in the “real world” outside of Michigan or the Midwest, nor does it address the challenge of selling, marketing, and promoting GM vehicles to conquest buyers. GM’s problems are far larger than depicted in these twenty points. A RETURN TO GREATNESS Step One: When "The Return" is initially announced, we proclaim the elimination of Destination Charges. If you want to pay freight, get a foreign car. · First of all, GM needs revenue……and the destination charges are something that’s acceptable industry-wide. There is no reason to get rid of these charges as long as they are in line with other manufacturer’s charges. To do so will reduce one source of revenue for General Motors. Step Two: Ten days after the original announcement we release the next step, the elimination of mid-year price increases. · Customers neither care or probably realize that mid-year price increases actually take place. GM needs to build value in their products and if you build products that people actually want to buy, then occasional mid-year price adjustments won’t be a factor in GM’s success. Step Three: Announcement of simplified quarterly incentive changes. No more pressure to buy now, hurry before it ends, only to be followed by another program. · Simplified incentives are fine. However, you will ALWAYS have the situation where someone buys a car and the next day the incentive changes. This will happen whether the incentive is monthly OR quarterly. The very NATURE of the retail automotive industry, in fact ANY sales-oriented industry, is that there will be pressure to “buy now” as companies attempt to meet or exceed monthly, quarterly, or yearly objectives. Furthermore, customers will ALWAYS worry what the “deal” will be. It is in our very nature to negotiate. We do that on houses, and we do that on cars. This is NOT a GM-only fact of life. Furthermore, even if GM WERE to take this step and reduce the “urgency” of the sale, other auto competitors will NOT….and therefore, their existing sense of “urgency” will give them more powerful momentum. Step Four: Destination Detroit is move number four. In this announcement we explain our decision to bring all future award winning dealers and salespeople to Detroit as their reward for a job well done. · If you are trying to motivate dealers and salespeople, I’m sorry….but a trip to Detroit is NOT going to do it. Hometown pride is great and admirable but it’s a fact of life that Detroit is NOT a leisure or entertainment destination and trying to convince dealers and salespeople to work harder with “Detroit” as a reward will be fruitless at best. I like the idea about a trip to the proving grounds, but in this case, a trip to the Phoenix Proving Grounds would be much more enticing with all the attractions, spas, resorts, and golfing of the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. The expenses saved from executives NOT traveling for this meeting would be minimal and would not strongly impact GM’s bottom line. Step Five: Home Deliveries. We announce an effort of working with our dealers to bring the customer the vehicle of their choice, directly to their place of employment, or residence. · With every “docs-out” or “home” delivery you do, you take profit opportunities AWAY from the dealership, primarily in the finance department. Maybe home deliveries would be more popular in Michigan, where so many retail customers ARE GM employees….and for them, buying a car is not as big of a deal. In fact, when most GM employees buy multiple cars in a year, and work in the industry, they don’t “need” to take delivery at the dealership. This is most assuredly not the case in the rest of the country. Additionally, customers STILL need to come TO the dealership to shop and negotiate. And in many areas of the country, “spot” deliveries (where the customer takes the car home THAT day) are commonplace. Having a customer wait for a home delivery only reduces profit potential at the dealership AND gives the customer additional time to “rethink” their decision and back out of the deal. It happens. Step Six: We announce a very simple and easy to understand incentive...Got GM Get GM. It is a loyalty incentive that anyone can comprehend. If you currently own or lease a GM vehicle, you receive $1,000. It is stackable and compatible with any offering, transferable to family member at same address. No goofy rebate if you own a non-GM car. Who thought of that one anyway? Why reward disloyalty, or have to ask customers if they own a competitve product? Let's only give something to those who already support us. · A GM loyalty incentive is a good idea. However, you cannot stop offering incentives to owners of competing makes. GM cannot survive on its current owners, employees, and retirees for the purchase of GM cars. GM needs to gain market-share from owners of competing makes and one way to do that is to give them a reason to come into a GM dealership. Unfortunately, at this time, the GM product is NOT enough of a reason to entice these consumers. It may be someday, but not now. Incentives are here to stay and as long as GM remains REASONABLE with their incentives and rebates, that’s not a bad thing. Step Seven: Annual Model Change. · Once again, if GM does this, they will be at a severe competitive disadvantage. One of the reasons that vehicle introductions became staggered throughout the year, was to gain the “upper hand” against a competitor that was also bringing out a new and competing model. Back 50 years ago, when competition was much less, the Big Three were a mainstay of the U.S. retail auto industry, and all manufacturers introduced new cars in the fall timeframe, this was a great idea. The very nature of the industry now and the number of competitors makes this an unrealistic practice. GM may decide to wait until the fall to introduce their new models, but their competitors surely will not. The competition will be more successful in pulling consumers into their showrooms to sell them their newest products instead of consumers “waiting” until fall to see what GM has to offer. Step Eight: Increase Dealer Margin. · Realistically, any increase in margin will be followed by an increase in price. NOW, if GM products get to a strong enough point of acceptance in the marketplace, this increase in price should not be a big issue. They are NOT at this point of acceptance yet. Asking GM to increase margins without a corresponding increase in price is asking GM to give up revenue they desperately need right now. Step Nine: Get On The Street. Each month, each salary member of VSSM would be required to spend one day in a randomly selected dealership service department, preferably in write up. · All GM employees, (and employees at any manufacturer for that matter) should spend time working in a dealership to get a true feel for the retail environment. However, I don’t see this as being a big impact to the dealership’s productivity. It’s a good idea, but not a big enough impact to probably be included as one of the points in GM’s “Return To Greatness.” Step Ten: AARP. This is a fantastic demographic, and another opportunity to simplify incentives. Make it a year-round program. · AARP is a good program, and a good targeted marketing incentive. However, like above, the impact is likely to be way too small to add to GM’s “Return To Greatness.” AARP, in the overall scheme of things, is a highly-targeted demographic and a correspondingly small proportion of the car-buying public. This incentive would primarily be aimed at GM retirees or Buick consumers. This incentive would do next-to-nothing towards helping convince shoppers at BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Toyota, or Lexus stores to come into a GM dealership. Step Eleven: Brand Merchandise Offerings: Include with each delivery a coupon for $50 off, or towards, merchandise from an affinity catalog. · Good idea. You could target the brand merchandise offerings to match the individual GM divisional brand image. HOWEVER, once again, the impact from this promotion would do little to correct GM’s market share slide. GM’s problem today is WAY bigger than this. Step Twelve: Auto Shows. Instead of the current practice of giving rebates to certain residents of surrounding counties, let's offer auto show tickets to those who test drive our products. · Auto shows cost, $9, $10, $11 to get in. I don’t see this as making any impact. Auto show tickets alone aren’t going to bring new consumers into a GM dealership. Step Thirteen: At year end, instead of giving our employees a cash award for profit sharing, reward them with stock, and make them true partners in the company's success. · A nice idea, however, this does nothing to help fix the “core” problem at GM….and that’s the competitiveness of their products and the perception of GM products in the marketplace by those consumers that GM NEEDS to attract from the Japanese and European car shoppers. Step Fourteen: PEP Cars. Quite often, GM executives turn in their factory demos with the mileage just under the next price discount level. This practice is both frustrating and annoying. The inconsideration shown to fellow employees, and retirees, is inexcusable and unacceptable. GM needs to announce a policy of driving the unit to the next mileage category whenever the driver is within say 250 miles of the next price break. · No impact from this point. GM PEP cars are a phenomenon that only merits any importance from people living in Michigan (or surrounding states where people work at GM factories, etc.) where the majority of GM company cars are in service. Furthermore, these PEP cars are usually sold to GM employees and retirees. Complaining about losing out on an additional GM discount, when you are already getting a substantial discount on a PEP car is a needless and petty point to argue when it has nothing to do with GM gaining market-share in places like Los Angeles, Dallas, Atlanta, and New York. Step Fifteen: Referral Savings Account. Similar to the GM Card (another crisis), GM announces a program to accumulate a savings of $50 for each referral who buys or leases a new vehicle. · At $50 per referral, a consumer would never accumulate enough dollars to make the incentive strong enough to pull him/her into a GM dealership. Once again, maybe GM employees in Michigan might utilize such a program but in the REST of the country, how many people do you really think would refer a significant number of people to buy a GM car, then to actually redeem those dollars at a GM dealership? GM has to get people to CONSIDER their products for purchase FIRST before you can think about those consumers actually referring someone to buy a GM vehicle. Step Sixteen: Free GM Smart Care Maintenance Agreement to all GM Retirees. This 36 month 36,000 mile program would offer free recommended maintenance to all GM retirees. · Simply MORE “legacy costs” at a time when GM most assuredly does NOT need them. GM retirees are NOT going to save GM so there is little point in spending money in this way to further incentivize them. They are most likely going to continue to buy GM vehicles ANYWAY due to the discounts they receive. GM needs to spend money to improve product and increase market share….NOT foster goodwill with retirees. Step Seventeen: GM Card. This was one of the best programs GM has ever had. That was until someone decided to take earnings away, and thereby alienate thousands of employee cardholders. · I cannot comment as I am unfamiliar with the GM Card and recent activity that has supposedly made it a less-than-desirable incentive. Step Eighteen: Sales Guilds. For years GM had brand specific sales guilds. Now, everything is combined into the GM Mark of Excellence. It's a decent enough program, but it would be more effective to return to the old days of Buick Salesmaster and the Chevrolet Legion of Leaders. · Unlikely to strongly impact GM’s falling market-share. The salespeople need good, competitive product to sell. That’s the first step. Step Nineteen: Direct Factory Communication: Imagine going to your local dealer and ordering a new vehicle. · What percentage of GM vehicle purchases are actually custom-ordered? Not many. Due to this fact, this point has very little impact on GM’s overall challenges. Step Twenty: Reinstatement of Regional Sales Training Classes. Years ago, GM offered professional sales development classes at their regional training centers. · This point adds serious cost, which GM cannot afford right now. Sales training is ALWAYS beneficial, but most manufacturers these days utilize various computer and internet tools to train salespeople. Additionally, the dealership sales managers should be empowered to make sure their respective sales forces are properly trained. That is one function that the individual GM district sales manager should be responsible for on a local level. Regional sales training centers are an unnecessary expense. If a salesperson is not disciplined enough to utilize the computer, internet, and print materials available to him/her, than they shouldn’t be in the business in the first place. Please respond with your thoughts, and PROXIES. I just did! originally from the o.c. still fighting that good fight, huh?? some of us anyway.

sorry i missed this one. while im not one for gratuitious cursing, it sometimes helps get a point across. the funniest comedians dont need to curse but we all know that when the do its just to emphasize a point or for a laugh. the ones who arent funny and curse for the hell of it doesnt then make them funny simply because they are versed in 4 letter words. now, i think 91z was more offended because he was called an "ass pick" and was insulted. maybe, rightfully so. i dont think its a matter of censorship or language, he was just offended by someones, perhaps, crass statement and took it rather personally. adults curse. in the real world, yes, adults curse.

whats the line from glengary glenross... a man doesnt walk on the lot unlest he wants to buy? its f*ck or walk. hit the bricks. whats my name? f*ck you, thats my name. that was a good movie about moving real estate, but still about selling anything. the movie boiler room ripped from it big time. anyway i digress, gotta sell those cars no matter what they throw at you. people can be talked into just about almost anything. thats a fact jack.

so, how much horsepower do those add? id guess anywhere from abut 15 - 80 depending on the application. i dont know for sure if theyll be offered but rest assured if they want to stay competetive it looks like they are going to have to now. i think it might come with floormats but theyre only good for 2-3 hp. you might want to check how many mirrors it comes with too. honestly, this really makes a difference to you?

i heard some of the plastics were polypropylene. id much rather polyepilene. its the little tocuhes that make absolutely no difference that can matter the most sometimes. they better be magnesium if they want me as a customer.

thats funny. you have any idea of what the reserve is? 6 days and going strong and its not met yet but even so id save your money on that pile. it looks so rusted just from the pictures that on the way home youd be able to stop the car fred flinstone style.

wow theres really no right answer for this. i can tell you from a to b cavaliers are pretty damn ok. very little worry. i know if i was in this situation id be looking at the cobalts. but theres so many different things. aveo, elantras, anything from toyota, i hear that they are so good if you throw them up in the air, they turn to sunshine. best thing to do is go out there and get behinsd the wheel of a few and see what floats your boat.

ive been seeing a few cobalts around here and i gotta say it aint at all a bad looking car. especially in black. hope these little cars continue to do well. gotta keep em fresh. no secret there really. lets see now if it really happens.

dont forget, it has heating and cooling capacities usurpassed.

yes. yes, run like the dickens because even if they say its not them, it is. and you can always tell because they have no legs and there is always the faint smell of cheetos. but its supposed to be secret so dont say a anything. jeez, ya wonder why people dont tell these reporter types anything. they just go and broadcast it. ok so gm is building a new plant. good for them. kinda heard to miss something the size of 20 football fields being built, but it must be a secret. f*ck cars anyway. i want a f*ckin submarine. sh!t if gm were building a factory undersea it would be more interesting than these here expose.

aaah, i knew ive seen that front end profile somewhere. http://m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12990

thats cool, and i can understand that from a sales perspective but how many companies wait until christmas or the holiday season to meet their bottom lines? im not suggesting that this is good in that manner but if someone doesnt want to buy it outright, or wait for it, then they probably didnt want it that badly in the first place. and they wont find it cheaper or comparable anywhere else. no one is saying oooh a 30k car for 24 or 25k...lets get two, honey. chances are if you cant afford it all full price, you cant when they knock off a couple grand. theyre just out looking to save a couple bucks. i cant even imagine the people you have to deal with on a regular basis,--even before these sales extravaganzas-- and im sure this doesnt really help matters much either. it probably only makes your job that much more difficult.

the fact of the matter is people who want to get a car, especially a domestic didnt have any excuses when these deal came into play.after 911 and last summers blow out. the only people that had anything negative to say already viewed detriot as irrelevant or substandard, so really does anyone think they lost potential sales because someone was so offended by a good deal? i guess it could be miscontstrued but not by anyone that was even remotely considering one of these cars in the first place. 9 out of 10 times theyll get you coming and going. these deals are almost the equivalent to throwing all your cards on the table. again, to a lot of people these cars hardly sell themselves. they arent all bad, but for the right price, yeah, ill listen for a moment. no ones not gonna buy the apples or bottle of water thats on sale because they lowered the price. or the tv or the radio or microwave. i dont understand the negativity that some people rather focus on. the only irreparable damage done is by perpetuating some false idealogy that if its cheaper it must be bad. just my opinion.

not quite. i just dont want to get rearended by some jackass who has is head in the glove compartment while hes trying to find the nearest walgreens. as a matter of fact, i wanted to pull the fuse for the airbag when i got my first car that had one...as far as guns go...well, i dont want the king of England coming in to my house and pushing me around. this was just a gut instinct knee jerk reaction to what seems to me as counter productive and not at all intuitive. there are so many people out there already driving with their heads up their asses as it is. that was the whole point of hud, one of the greatest technologies with a plethora of benefits. this is almost 180 from that. if the screen popped up from the dash or was at least even with the typical radio controls i wouldnt have said boo peep. regarding the touch screen, no it doesnt console me one bit because now youre leaning in to use it. damn. a motor 4 wheels and some brakes and im happy.

no, money down. (note the comma) learned that trick from an attorney.

they obviously dont know about all the underground plants scattered from alamogordo to saskatchewan.

i like the idea of turbo for pontiac and sc for chevy. even though, i like sc's better i understand more can be gained from a properly set up turbo.

sun glare? ive never used nav but is that really a prob? if so, do you think this will solve it? or just create another problem.

yup. im inclined to agree. some people rather have some extra cash in their pocket when they leave, others rather a lower monthly payment. the thing is though that most people wont buy a car if they dont want it no matter how much cash back incentive. itll get some to maybe buy that new car sooner than they want. or maybe consider something they heard was ok and have been meaning to "check out". these options just afford people another choice to see what worksd out better for them financially. for gm and anyone else it just about evens out.

you really want know? first off, its recessed. your eyes have to first look down, then in. any time focus is off the road is dangerous, adding an extra step increases distraction time. they all do this to an extent, this one adds another point of adjustment. may only be milliseconds, but its enough. second, it has a flat key control. its probably easier once you learn where all the buttons are but it does not, in my opinion support good driving habits. thats basically it. plus really is just too many buttons so close together. like i said though, im sure once you learn all the buttons its probably second nature but why even have to retrain yourself. if i drive caught flack, i dont see why this wont. in my opinion, the i-drive seems even more supportive of good driving habits, if needlessly unnecessary. one control, next to the driver. my main gripe is the way its set back. ive seen studies with cell phone distractions and actual data that demonstrates the inherent negativity of taking your eyes of the road if even only briefly. this compunds that. its a car not a computer. to me this would be akin to driving wit newspaper in front of you. i could be dead wrong but why didnt they opt for a flat screen? i guess the only way to know for sure is to test drive it and see how intuitive it is. :AH-HA_wink:

that nav screen looks dangerous to me. more so than other ones. im not a fan of this looks like this and that with some of...but from the side shot i see accord/bmw. whatever floats your boat.

how about they just raise the prices so people will think they must have something good to offer. or just leave it as is because people dont need to have that carrot being waved in front. but personally i never saw it as a bad deal or idea. it relieves inventory and if people do come in to at least look who ordinarilly wouldnt and it gets vehicle exposure on the roads if they do decide to purchase. i know many people do not at all see it similarly.

when it comes to this he has as much of a point if i were to say " damn you gm! you should have cars that run on telepathy" the fact is that this is what we have now. hybrids like the prius are a band aid. thats pretty well acknowledged. the technology hasnt caught up yet. even the ev1 almost 20! years ago was scoffed at and left to wither. people joked: who wants to plug in a car. oh yeah, gas is so cheap- why would i eant that when i can get......that was the best chance. way ahead of this other stuff but people laughed. sure it could have been better, just like the priuses could be better now. time and technology are marching on. bitching about it and holding others in contempt isnt helpful. especially considering that gm is probably doing more, or has at least tried to do more than anyone else. and still is. toyota got lucky with the prius. how long can they ride those coattails? especially when the saturn green lines, and 900's will do the same? not to mention the flex fuels and the hydrogen concepts. misinformed or illinformed, or rather uninformed comes to mind.

the same thing with the gto. of all the goat sales how many people were considering something else from GM? id bet not many. it was always always considered a very small market from the git go. 12-18,000. and thats what they sold. hell, they only brought over 18k. it was never about volume, more so just something for car nuts. so many dont seem to get that simple little fact. even the more supposed reputbale mags and media in general ovewrlook this. i always saw it as a car brought here for people who were specifically looking for a car like that. and basicall thats what it was and thats what it is and thats what it did, end of story. 12-18k. it was brought here for people who wanted something special, no more no less. and only now i hear things like--its a car that will be missed once its gone, or--if you havent driven one you dont know what you missed.

mercedes has the best commercials lately. one part they were showing the side impacts and the dolly/battering ram dealy went flying over the car leaving it cpmpletely intact. it was funny as hell. of course in tiny print on the bottom of the tv it says "dramatization, seriously fatal as hell impact--you will die or at least dislocate hip and shoulder" or someting like that-- theres nothing funny about these pictures though. it makes me never to want to drive again. but i will, and im gald to know the impala has done well. side curtains are all the rage. after you see the tests with and wothout them, it makes a giant difference. granted, some accidents at the speeds most people drive they wouldnt make a lick of a difference...it is nice to know that theyre there. its what they call an added safety precaution.