NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

GMC Truck Guy: Nice talking to you. I have been back for a little bit. So far good. I hope it stays that way. I got the Toronado in December 2006. It is not a Trofeo. I did not want the Trofeo. The Trofeo had too many mechanical/electrical issues. The analog gauges on them go out a lot. You see alot of the gauges on Ebay for sale. The analog gauges were standard in 1990-1992. Plus, I did not want analog gauges either. I cannot stand them. The Toronados are well built. You have Cadilac Eldorado like touches on the inside. It is equipped like a 1985 Toronado Brougham. It has everything. The gauges look like this on the inside: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y07KF6W9AmU There are certain options you had to get in order to get those. It is a color you rarely saw. The last few years of Toronado were rare.

You guys (AM6 Cutlass and GM4 Life) hit it right on the head! Getting rid of Oldsmobile was not smart. They are still paying for it. I was hurt and it still hurts. I have accepted it eventhough I do not like it. Oldsmobile gave you the best of both sides of GM: Chevy/Pontiac= price and sport Buick/Cadillac= luxury,sophistication and distinction. Let me be honest here.. When I was a child I liked all the GM divisions. I still do. When I was younger I wanted a Pontiac Bonneville or Parsisienne or Grand Prix. I always liked all those luxury features on Cadillacs. I also liked the Oldsmobiles because they were the best compromise. I liked Buick, but they just never sat well with me and rubbed me the wrong way(especially in the 1970's). I liked Chevrolet Caprice, but it lacked that something. Again.. Oldsmobile had that something... I learned the GM history, the cars and divisions. I learned about Holden years ago before everyone knew Holden here. I liked them because they looked like Oldsmobiles. Fast forward... When I bought my first car, I was looking at a 1993-1996 Cadillac Fleetwood or the 1989-1992 Fleeetwood and Deville. I could not do it because of where I work, I knew they would think they were paying me too much or that where was I getting that kind of money. I also knew the faculty(professors) who make more than me would feel threatened by me driving a Cadillac. I wanted to be a good steward with my money. The Oldsmobile Ninety Eight allows me to have Cadillac features and luxury at a comfortable price. It allows me drive a luxury car that is distinctive, but not in your face. It is not pretentious or flashy. I laugh when I think how close my car is to a Deville/DTS or Fleetwood. I just do not have the V8. On the Oldsmobile Ninety Eight video I have here in the house, they say the Ninety Eight is for the successful person who has arrived, but chooses to not display their wealth. I did not want Buicks because there is something still to this day that does not sit right with me about owning one. It is not flashy like Cadillac, but Buicks are missing something I cannot put my finger on. I wonder too what the Ninety Eight would have looked like with a redesign in 1997 when Park Avenue got one. GM messed up with the new Oldsmobile. It failed because of execution, marketing, wiping out the old Oldsmobile and that whole name changing business and trying to "woo" import owners who they knew did not want their cars. My issue was never with the looks of the new Oldsmobile. It was the naming scheme(They are still screwing that up on other divisions now), the lack of a clear mission, and lack of a fullsized car. When I went to buy a second car to have with my Ninety Eight, I looked at: Lincoln Mark VIII, Buick Riviera, Cadillac SLS, Lincoln Town Car and 1997-1999 Deville and a host of Oldsmobiles.. I went with Oldsmobile Toronado. It like the Ninety Eight gave me what I needed and how I needed it. Riviera fell short and I was not driving an Eldorado because of the status of the vehicle. Yes, I almost bought a Lincoln because it was close to what I wanted and what I have with Oldsmobile and it does not carry the flash and status Cadillac has. That is how GM lost those buyers and they have not recovered them. I have owned two Ninety Eight's : 1994 was totaled in August 2003. I have the 1995. I have owned two Toronados. 1991 was totaled August 2006. I have the 1992 now. The reason why I bought the same cars twice is because when I was in an accident, those cars were very crash worthy. I still support GM, and like them but I am orphaned and they do not have anything for me either. Here is a video: End Of Oldsmobile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFlBqRYpbZc

Where can I find these items? I have the book "Setting The Pace". I have many opinions on this subject.. I am not going there today..

Funny you should say that: 1971 Pontiac Firebird commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkG4nKKFsFI The Solstice was influenced by that Firebird.

Funny he said that.. From Autonews: New Pontiac G8 May Have Front-End Styling Drawn From The Solstice DETROIT -- If General Motors expands Pontiac's U.S. product line with a sedan from its Holden subsidiary in Australia, the car would arrive in 2008 with front-end styling drawn from the Pontiac Solstice, a U.S. industry source says. A story in a Melbourne, Australia, newspaper last week said the Pontiac would be based on the rear-wheel-drive Holden Commodore SS. The new car likely would have unique sheet metal from the A-pillar forward. The redesigned Commodore debuted last year and was developed on GM's new global rwd vehicle architecture. The upcoming Chevrolet Camaro and Impala will share that architecture. The new Pontiac would be slightly longer and wider than the 2007 Grand Prix. The Pontiac would be called the G8, according to the story in the Herald Sun. GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz did not confirm the plan but told the newspaper: "It's such a logical thing to do. The volume range is 30,000 to 50,000," depending on price. Lutz said details will be revealed next month at the Chicago Auto Show.

Carl-Peter Forster GM Group Vice President President, GM Europe Carl-Peter Forster has been GM vice president and president of GM Europe, based in Zurich, Switzerland, since June 2004. Effective January 1, 2006, he was appointed GM group vice president and a member of the GM Automotive Strategy Board and took over the role as the senior-ranking executive for GM's activities in Europe. He has been chairman of the Opel Supervisory Board since June, 2004 and chairman of Saab since April, 2005. Forster was born in London, U.K., on May 9, 1954 and raised in London, Bonn, and Athens. He holds a diploma in economics from Bonn University and a degree in aviation and space technology from Munich Technical University. Forster started his career in 1982 as a consultant for McKinsey & Company in Munich. In 1986, he joined BMW where he held various leadership positions before becoming managing director of BMW South Africa in 1996 and the board member responsible for all vehicle development projects in 1999. Prior to being appointed president of GM Europe and chairman of the Opel Supervisory Board, Forster was chairman and managing director of Adam Opel from April 2001. In his three years in that position, Forster initiated far-reaching restructuring programs and a major product offensive focusing on innovative design and industry-leading build quality.

Very nice post of photos and videos TED. I looked at the car. I pondered on something one else said. If this is the new CTS and it is so much better in many ways that the STS, does this mean: The next STS will be larger and more distinct? The DTS follow up will be longer and larger than the current car? This car pushes everything upward.. The STS was not Lutz's car. That car was something like the current Grand Prix and LaCrosse he tried to fix and make halfway decent. The old cars are falling off one by one. Some how, GM China made that STS better in some many ways. You can see how international GM influenced this car. The door panels are very Holden like. The seats are very GM China(look at SLS), the gauges are very GM Europe, while the exterior is GM North America. This car will not be modified much when it is exported other than right hand drive applications. Any ideas?? Cadillac did take a cue from Infiniti. That pop up navigation screen came from them.

The two door coupe likes like a 80's Ford Tempo.

I think Ocnblu might be right. I saw this and the first thing I thought was you are going to see some of the styling cues on the rear drive Impala. You can see it in the front end and the back.

Interesting how cars sell over there. It just goes to show you how different everyone's tastes are..

This is sad but true. It will take time to turn the tide. I am just glad GM and Ford and waking up. They spent the last 20 years trying to make the perfect Toyota Camry or Honda Accord and lost ground doing it. That is part of the reason why that whole import Oldsmobile thing failed. Sadly, the luxury cars in this country lost touch with the buyers. We may have the quality, but perception is the biggest part of the battle. The Escalade has that luxury image(with status) the DTS does not have. They lost ground to the Europeans first. This is ground they can recover because the Europeans are lacking in quality now and do not stand out like they once did. Now is the time to strike. It is true as much as I like the Lincoln Town Car, it is outdated. Holden is helping GM because GM North America because it does not have any rear drive cars that handle well that are rear drive. They lost touch with the public. It is going to take a global GM to make that effort. I have a friend that drives a Jetta. He is that buyer you are all talking about. He said this about GM: He would not go near a Pontiac because they do not offer anything Chevrolet does not have plus the interiors are cheap and plastic looking. He does not see a use for Pontiac. He said Buick is a old person's car even after seeing Lucerne and LaCrosse. He said Saturn and SAAB are the only GM brands he would consider because they are the only thing close to what he expects in a car. He said Cadillac is getting better but still have some work to do. He said GM should not have dropped Oldsmobile. He said it had a slight stigma it could have over come. I showed the American Buicks to a student. He said said those are old people cars. I then showed the student the Chinese Buicks. He was like wow! I like those!! Why don't they build them like that here. Those are like Mercedes Benz. GM knows this. This is why they merged Buick, Pontiac and GMC into one. This is why Pontiac is becoming all rear drive again to become relevant again. The Solstice is a start, but they need a mass market hit. Those divisions cannot survive alone any longer. They will not admit dropping Oldsmobile was a mistake. That is why they are putting that money into Saturn because they can grow that brand. They did not have an image. That is why GM is going to rely on Buick China for help with American Buicks. Only time can turn the tide and great designs and quality.

I did.. I read it last night. It is just interesting they like everyone else keep on talking about Oldsmobile and driving older Oldsmobiles. There were other Oldsmobiles in that race too. They had an Achieva, 77 Cutlass Supreme and 84 Cutlass Supreme and that Aurora. It was nice to see that too. I noticed they even gave it high praise and talked about how after it was beat up, it started right up. Even after Oldsmobile is gone, they are still talking about it and writing articles about it. They also said they are looking for another Oldsmobile in that article too. Where were these people when Oldsmobile was in production and needed that press??

Quite the story.. I read it all with great interest. The funny thing is as much as GM tried to get rid of Oldsmobile, it will not die. In the new Car and Driver they had that whole story about those Oldsmobiles in that rally race. They drove an Aurora. This guy who is selling this car really selling this Oldsmobile in how he talks about the car.

Interesting.. Not a bad looking car. It has the "global" Chevrolet look in the front. It has a better interior. Chevrolet does not mean cheap rental car anymore.. There is some substance with the style. This car looks about 188-192 inches long. It looks as big as the competition. This means the LaCrosse will be smaller next time by a few inches. The Chinese Buick LaCrosse is smaller than the American version. Maybe we might see some Chinese Buick "parts" used on the new American version of the LaCrosse. I have a feeling if not that, the Chinese Buick will influence the look of the American one. The Grand Prix goes rear drive via Holden and it too will get smaller. It would be the only midsized rear drive GM car in North America too. GM knows what it is doing.. It is playing the parts out and globalizing everything. It takes time to see the restults, but you are beginning to see the big picture. If anyone looked at the taillamps you can see the cues for the Chevrolet round taillamps in the design. It would have cheapened the rear and made it look like an after thought if they just put the round taillamps on the car. Not a bad design at all. It should not be compared to other cars on the market until it is driven and tested. Like Lincoln used to say in its promotional materials: "drive everything else first then drive a Lincoln".

I will continue to drive my two Oldsmobiles( 1995 Ninety Eight and 1992 Toronado). I think it is sad even after all this time. I have accepted this happened. Seeing this does bring back not so nice memories. I also disagree when critics keep saying Saturn is filling Oldsmobile spot or they are what Oldsmobile was. They are not. Saturns are Opels not Oldsmobiles. Saturn should a brand that develops on its own merit as it is now doing. I own Oldsmobiles and there is no no way I feel Saturn fills that spot. That is like saying your father died, and your step father or your mom's new friend replaces your dad. He does not. Right now most Oldsmobile owners feel orphaned. Instead of buying new GM, they are buying used Oldsmobiles or keeping the Oldsmobiles they have or buying outside of GM. I still support GM and like their cars, but they do not make anything for me anymore. Buying a Buick is not an option for me. If I wanted a Buick, I would have bought a Park Avenue and a Riviera. Personally, I would have rather seen Oldsmobile become a smaller brand under Chevrolet or Cadillac with 4 or 5 cars. Bob Lutz said he would have made Oldsmobile a smaller brand under another division. One thing people fail to see is the new Oldsmobile failed because of poor execution and marketing. No one believed in that "import car" image either. Oldsmobile had strong names and recognition. If GM had called Intrigue the Cutlass and Aurora the Toronado, it would have been a different story.

I know I like Oldsmobiles, and I also like the Lincoln too. This is unreal. That car looks like an Oldsmobile! Did the Oldsmobile stylists end up at Lincoln? It seems Lincoln felt Oldsmobile/GM was not using the Oldsmobile themes any longer, so they did. They probably thought the Lincoln star from a distance looked like the Oldsmobile rocket. They thought lets get those orphaned Oldsmobile owners GM left behind. The above was sarcasm and humor. At least we have an idea what the Oldsmobile themes would have looked like if it had lived. Oh well.... I like the front end on this concept. Lincoln 88? Lincoln 98 ? Lincoln Regency? just kidding.. The front end is from the early 1940's Lincolns.... See the front end and fenders on this car: http://www.metroccca.org/GC_Car_003-2red41.JPG

Yeah... they had some great cars... I think that is why I have enjoyed them and own two of them now. I was not a fan of the names the new Oldsmobiles had, but I liked the Bravada and the Aurora the most. I like Alero because it was value for the money. GM has nothing that fits me any longer. I am still a GM person and still support GM too. Many can say things should have been different with Oldsmobile. It well may have been.

Opel could import from Holden on a low level basis. Vauxhall is doing it with the new Commodore . It is making use of your global empire... I assume Opel wants a rear drive car that is affordable to have something different.

Nice Cutlass Supreme.. They were hot sellers and held their value back then.

To answer your questions: The 1995 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency Elite Series II is holding up just fine. I have been very happy with it. It is great on gas, the interior has worn well. I have not had any major repairs yet.. I put a new airbag in because they eventually go. The passenger side one needed to be replaced. I have not done anything else to it really. I have been very happy. I do not regret the purchase and would do it again for the right 1995-1996 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight. The 1992 Oldsmobile Toronado I just got(December 2006) is in great shape as they did maintain it, plus the dealer did some things to it too. I am fixing the small things like bulbs that went out. It is a rare color with a black interior. It also had the rare bench seat for an E Body and the digital gauges. Most Toronados had bucket seats, analog gauges and floor shifters. I do not put that many miles on my cars either.

I have not had any problem with the digital gauges yet on both of my cars( 1995 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency Elite Series II and 1992 Oldsmobile Toronado.) I know my first Ninety Eight had analog gauges and it did go out. I had to spend money to fix it. I have spoken to a former Oldsmobile tech and he said the analog and digital used the same parts, but the analog had more mechanical parts. This from my experience.....

Congrats on your new car!! That is indeed a nice color. It stands out. I hope you have many happy miles of driving.

Nice photos. They took some of the Holden photos and modified them. I recognize the Statesman from the Holden website. I do like the Caprice Royale with the stand up hood ornament. The front reminds me of the 1991-1996 Caprice we had here. It does look like our Impala in some ways too( the rear). This is just the beginning of the globalization of GM. It is a nice thing. I am sure that this car will make it to the United States. I am not sure as what though. I am looking forward to what the Buick Royaum and Daewoo Statesman will look like. I am sure it will be close to Caprice Royale. Maybe the US will benefit and maybe get a Buick or something out of this too. Who knows....

Years ago Pontiac sent me a letter in 1985 saying the purchasers of six passenger fullsized cars are slowly diminishing. There may be some truth to that. I prefer the 6 passenger car myself. There are not many left sadly.. Yet... There are still buyers for these types of vehicles. It is interesting: Mercedes Benz S Class and BMW 7 Series have the gear shift on the steering column the way it was in most American cars. Ford had the right idea with the flipping seat to console package that was in the Taurus. The Honda Civic uses digital gauges. Too many cars have the same thing and they do not stand out. This is why styling has become more important to stand out. Almost every car on the market has: has analog gauges bucket seats floor shifter trunk spoiler leather or cloth interior a V6 engine. So what makes a car desireable when most of them are the same in a sea of sameness??? Toyota and Honda sell reliabilty. They offer appliances. What do GM and Ford and Chrysler and Ford offer?? Most car makers think this is sporty. What really happened is the Americans tried to create the perfect japanese car and failed at the attenpt and lost 20 years trying. They realize now you do not have to out "Toyota" Toyota. Americans realize style is important as functionality. Back in the 1960's you could get fullsized cars with bucket seats. The 1963 Ninety Eight sports coupe had bucket seats and a floor shifter. The Chevrolet Impala SS showed that a fullsized car can be sporty and desirable. People were not complaining about the size of the 1995-1996 Impala SS. Buick just started again using floorshifters in its fullsized cars with Lucerne. The Park Avenue and LeSabre last generations 1991-2005 did not offer them. They offered bucket seats with consoles. The Deville just got bucket seats and a floorshifter with the Deville Concours in 1997. The Holden Caprice and Statesman have always had them except in the 1970's. You can buy a Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport with bucket seats and a floorshifter for about $32,000. The Grand Marquis offered it on the Limited a few years back and on the Maurader. The American companies want to be sporty and international. When the American car makers dominated the market, they dictated style. The times have changed. They now are following instead of leading. Should they regain their lead again, they can dictate style. This is what they are trying to do. I will add Cadillac is missing a true fullsized long wheelbase production car. DTS is not it. In Cadillacs case, in order to lead and stay in the game, they could not continue to make cars like the 1997 Deville, 1996 Fleetwood or 1993 Seville. I like those models, but that is not where Ultra luxury is today. Just my opinion.

Test bed for the styling on the next RL or TL.