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smk4565

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Everything posted by smk4565

  1. smk4565
    Bringing it back to the G80, a good comparison would be to the Cadillac CT5. They are both the same size roughly. A CT5-V starts at $49k, Genesis has said the G80 will start just under $50k, so I'll assume that means $49k. So we have similar size and price with the Cadillac you get a turbo V6 for the price of the turbo 4 in the Genesis. CT5 tops out around $65k, G80 is supposed to go to $70k, so pretty close. So which car is better, CT5 or G80? Which car will sell better?
  2. smk4565
    An E200 bare bones E-class no options starts at 47,000 Euro or $50,800. That is still higher than a Cadillac XTS that had a high fleet %. Every company needs fleet sales to survive too.
  3. smk4565
    So what is the cheapest E-class in Germany? I saw 49,000 Euro. Worldwide number is what matters, that is how Mercedes gets their money for product development. They don’t build a US only E-class paid for only with US sales revenue. Also how VW makes crazy money. Most don’t know the VW Tiguan and Golf both outsold the Chevy Silverado last year on a global number. They sell over 800,000 Golfs per year.
  4. smk4565
    So an E, 5, or A6 start at $54k with zero options, which we know doesn’t exist and every is extra in a German car. Mercedes charges $200 for wireless phone charging which is ridiculous, for $54k that should be included. So what are those 3 transacting at? You get to $70k real quick while still with a 4-cylinder engine on those cars and 4-cylinder sucks for a luxury car so you need the 6, now it is $80k.
  5. smk4565
    The cheapest E-class in Germany 3 years ago was $53k, and that is for an E250 that we don’t even get here. E-class isn’t going anywhere, they sold 351,000 of them last year. Mercedes already paid the fine last year. And all automakers will be hurt by Covid-19.
  6. smk4565
    But the car starts at $36,895, so many will sell at $45-50k and the V’s will mostly sell upper $50’s. New cars often ship first with higher trims before they put lower trims out. But a loaded CLA250 is $53k, $65k for a loaded AMG CLA35. Most CLA250 will sell in the mid 40’s, most CLA35 will sell around $55k. Not far off from CT5 and that is a budget Benz.
  7. smk4565
    It is sold as a taxi because it is probably the longest lasting sedan there is. It also doesn’t change the price. We in the USA choose not to pay $60k for a taxi or police car. Volume is also a good thing, it means you survive. Unlike GS, Q70, RLX, CT6, MKX, Continental soon, etc. No volume, no longer here.
  8. smk4565
    The E-class starts $18k more than a CT5, and a CT5-V maxes around $65k, the E63 goes over $142,000 with all options and even I think the ala carte options list on a Mercedes is nuts, more of that needs packaged or worked in. And sure there will be a CT5 Blackwing, maybe that is $90k, but that is a far cry from $142k. And the G80 is a nice effort but no match for the E-class or 5-series.
  9. smk4565
    Every car has options, the CLA goes over $60k with all options. CT5’s will obviously transact around $45-50k. But options or no options, it is still an entry lux competitor, it isn’t in mid-luxury.
  10. smk4565
    What does CT5 compete with? What is the target market? Acura RL, RLX, Lexus GS, Infiniti Q70 are dead. E-class, A6 and 5-series are still going strong. Germans won that round.
  11. smk4565
    How would you like to compare CT5? Or what does it compare to? Cadillac CT5 is 194 inches long, $36,895. Toyota Avalon is 196 inches long $35,875. Is that the competition at this point? We have Acura TLX at 191 inches long and $33,000. Or 184 inch Mercedes CLA at $36,650?
  12. smk4565
    CT5 is a C-class competitor, the CT5 actually costs less than a C-class. CT6 is out of production. Genesis plans to go into the luxury sedan segment with reliability and low maintenance cost as their sales pitch, but Lexus and Acura tried that and failed. And Genesis has a less than 5 year track record so we don’t really know if their long term reliability is good.
  13. smk4565
    Just announced: Acura RLX is dead after 2020 model year. The so called "more reliable than a German car" Japanese brands have now totally left the mid luxury sedan market, Cadillac left the segment, and Lincoln will soon when the Continental dies.
  14. smk4565
    GV70 is coming soon, the prototype is in testing now, but it is a small, rear drive SUV like a BMW X3. It isn't as big as an RX350, nor is it front drive, which I think is for the better.
  15. smk4565
    Where Genesis is in 50 years doesn’t pay the bills today. The G80 is in a shrinking segment with no performance model and no hybrid and just 2 engine choices. It looks like a nice car but this brand changes styling dramatically every 5 years, G80 will probably look dated shortly after being on market and sales will slump after the first year. GV80 looks like it could be strong because that is a growing segment, Infiniti is dead in the water, the MDX is old, the XT6 is a weak entrant, Lexus GX is ancient. If they steal 500 sales a month from each of those and get 1,000 Hyundai/Kia trade up buyers, now they start getting 3,000 sales a month and have something going there.
  16. smk4565
    Mercedes built the first super car in the 1954 300SL, the best car in the world in the 1960s with the 600. And Benz invented the car and Dialmer/Benz were around over 50 years before ever coming to the US. Genesis doesn’t have 50 years as Asia’s premier car brand that is just coming to the US for the first time. These guys are starting from scratch like Lexus or Acura did. Out of the gate Lexus had more success than Genesis had. Lexus made an image, Genesis hasn’t, they don’t know what they want to be.
  17. smk4565
    Same rules apply to everyone. If you are going into a new segment as a challenger you better wow it. This is why the Toyota Tundra is a sales dud and the Detroit 3 trucks smash it. Tundra is dated, bland, no wow factor, no clear advantage over what is already there. Which is inexcusable with Toyota's resources. Even more so if you are launching a new vehicle into a shrinking segment. You have more room for error if you are going into a booming segment .
  18. smk4565
    I said I think the Genesis looks nice, they've shown the production car interior. I'd still like to sit in it to see it first hand. We don't have a full reveal of the S-class, so we can't judge it yet, and I said the same thing when the Escalade leaked out, I want to see the actual reveal. The G80 is a nice car, I think it is their nicest vehicle inside and out, but it is going to be a sales struggle because 20 cars came before them and failed, and Genesis isn't doing anything those guys didn't already do. CTS is gone. CT5 is also a C-class competitor. We can throw CT6 on that list too though. The G80's starting price is $5k lower than the CT6, and it is a smaller car. Is the G80 all that much better than a CT6? Especially when Cadillac has a 100 year old name brand and built in loyal buyers and a dealer network.
  19. smk4565
    Tesla is pulling the industry in an EV/autonomous drive/minimalist interior direction. The S-class will be far more luxurious than anything Tesla makes. And we haven't seen the final S-class interior, but what they seem to be doing it getting rid of plastic buttons which often look cheap in favor of a big screen.
  20. smk4565
    Dearly beloved, we are gathered here to day to remember those lost in their battle with the E-class and 5-series.... R.I.P. 1996 1997 2006 2006 2008 2011 2012 2012 2016 2016 2018 2019 2019 2020 All of them entered the mid-price luxury segment and all of them are gone. What makes the G80 any different from them? It looks plain, but I'd like to see the actual real version. But I think this minimalist styling with lots of screens is going to be the way of the future. And whatever the S-class does, the others will chase, the 2030 G80 interior will look like that.
  21. smk4565
    Took Mercedes decades to build volume in the US, but they were a premier luxury car in Europe since the 1900s. Genesis is new every where and yes it takes a long time to build a brand. But to build a brand and come into a crowded market you need a product that can steal sales. Even if Infiniti folds with a recession that market share will get divided up.
  22. smk4565
    I am not saying Genesis has to outsell everyone. I am saying if they want to win, they need SUV's obviously, and to build a better car. Mercedes built the best car, that is why they took over the luxury market. I like the G80's new look, the interior is nice too. But is it better than the competition? I don't think better, so is the $5k price discount enough to overcome that? Genesis is basically doing what Cadillac did 6-7 years ago, with ATS, CTS and CT6, that is what G70, G80, and G90 are in size and price, they are almost identical. This G80 is nicer than the CTS, and G90 is nicer than CT6 was, but they probably don't have the chassis dynamics, so that could be a trade off. And those Cadillac sedans didn't find success 5 years ago, now the sedan segment is even less, how does Genesis succeed where Cadillac failed?
  23. smk4565
    But the US has never been Mercedes key market, it is their #3 market. And from that chart sales were a pretty steady rise and even more so in the 80s and 90s as they added more models. Also Mercedes came in way higher in price than Genesis is at. Maybe Genesis will add more models and grow, but in a declining auto market I don't see who they are stealing gobs of market share off of.
  24. smk4565
    Here's the thing about Genesis: the model line up, the dealer network, the inventory, those are all things they control. Any miscue with those is self inflicted. Things their management screwed up. If they can't get basics like dealer network and inventory right, I don't know how they get to building vehicles considered among the best in the world. More power isn't going to save the Stinger, the car is priced wrong. SUVs have crushed sedan sales because buyers needed more room, more cargo space, wanted AWD, etc. Coupes are almost disappearing from the market, because buyers want more space, back seats, etc. The Toyota Camry's drop in volume is mostly because of the RAV4. That is where the sales went. Today's RAV4 segment is the mid-size sedan segment of 15 years ago. Today's sedan market is the coupe market of 20 years ago. Kia should have gone after buyers that wanted a sports car like a Camaro/Mustang/BRZ but need 4 doors and all wheel drive. They marketed the car to the wrong people, on top of pricing it wrong. My comparison with Telluride is only that the Telluride has a nice interior, the Stinger doesn't and they come from the same company. Telluride is best in class interior, the Stinger is probably the worst interior you can get for a car of that price point.
  25. smk4565
    6 years of powertrain warranty, but only 1 year of bumper to bumper. Something that doesn't matter to a lease customer, which is the majority of the luxury market. That extra warranty may help, selling cars at 80% the cost of rivals I am sure helps, but Genesis still has really low sales figures. So clearly what they have done isn't enough. The Nurburgring is more about the engineering that went into the car. Is this Genesis a fancy Hyundai, or does it have Porsche or Mercedes level engineering? I know Genesis has it's own rear drive platform, but do they have engineers at Genesis that can make a G80 perform on par with a mid-engine super car, because the Germans have engineers that can.
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